help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 901 - 920 of total 1105 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
John M

climber
Feb 2, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Sorry this is so long. Its just some of my thoughts.

The pics were taken the next day. There are rocks in the ditch which you can see in some of the pics.

This was in my opinion a failure on both sides. You say that they should bend over backwards. They say they asked two people if they could camp there. I believe that the people they asked did say yes, but only because they didn't really understand them. There appears to have been a communication barrier.

They did refuse to show their passports. They could have had copies of other Id to try and use if they were worried about their id being taken. So that is one mistake. This was a high crime area.. They didn't seem to be aware of that. Another mistake.

They did ask to leave. They drove the wrong way. Another mistake. But in their defense they did ask to leave.

I believe that women and children were involved in beating them. I believe that they were beat. Villages can be very unfriendly places very quickly. If they aren't afraid of you, then you can be welcomed openly, but if they are afraid then they can join in very fast to fight. Its the nature of things and I am not saying it is wrong. It is just the way it is.

Some here seem to think these people deserved to get the sh#t beat out of them. As though they were being disrespectful. I don't see that. I just seem some mistakes and some misunderstandings. I'm not interested in persecuting the villages. But I'm also not interested in persecuting these people, which some people here seem to be wanting.

I didn't see their website as some terrible begging thing. I see it as I see Fish's buy him a beer thing. Its just something people do now and people like to have an easy way to be nice. If I bought something from Fish and he went out of his way to get it to me on time when I was in a push, I would want an easy way to say thank you. To me that is no different then if you read their blog and enjoy it, and want to support their journey by buying them a pizza, then why not.

The asking for money was a different and separate issue and was started by a friend. Much like people here start funds when their friends are sick. Its just what people do. But some people seem to be so terribly offended by this. I don't see why. They didn't have to contribute if they didn't want to. It was a request. Nothing more. If people want to give, then that is their business. I can see where some people are concerned because if this was a scam, then that might stop some people from giving in the future. So if it was a scam, then that should be determined. But from what I can see, it wasn't a scam. It was just a series of mistakes. On both sides. Which happens.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 2, 2013 - 10:15am PT
There appears to have been a communication barrier.

No sh#t. And who is to blame for that?

I don't see how a rural village defending their people and property from perceived delinquents who refuse to show ID is a fault.

I don't see nearly enough rocks anywhere around there to build any kind of barricade... especially one that truck couldn't get over.

If you run into trouble traveling, it is your fault. If you aren't willing/able to deal with sh#t, stay home. If your adventure doesn't turn out the way you planned, ain't nobody to blame buy yourself.
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:03am PT
Jenny Wolfrom has returned and there's an update to the story.

Jacksonite recounts assault by Peruvians
Wolfrom tells of her nightmarish experience in a small South American village:
http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/article.php?art_id=9499
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:29am PT
Whatever the truth of this story, the people who will suffer in the long run are the Peruvians and their tourist economy. Not a smart move on their part.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2013 - 05:13am PT
The Peruvian tourist board can hire Mechrist and the rest of the 'toughen the fuk up' crowd to help with the their PR campaign.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Feb 4, 2013 - 06:08am PT
It was just a series of mistakes. On both sides. Which happens.

No, the mistakes were all theirs - they are lying - they didnt ask anything - they were pirate campers and they had absolutely no way of communicating in this Indian language.
They escalated a simple situation completely out of control - to the point of pepper spraying villagers.
They were not beaten -i knoe beatings when I see it - one girl has one mark on her head, possibly from the accident and possibly from a rock when they were apprehended - as a trauma professional i can say there is very little blood on the jacket she says was supposedly stolen - the other girl has not marks at all - the driver obviously suffered some injury during the accident and he undoubtedly took a few punches to the face during the apprehension after pepper spraying woman, men and possibly even children - that is completely understandable - there are no whip marks, there is certainly not even close to 100 stitches( I actually do put stitches in people) They obviously were not robbed - they were drinking and by definition of the story driving recklessly - they signed a piece of paper agreeing to the fact that they were drinking and probably spent close to a month paying fines and dealing with this fact - which is why they are all so quite now concerning the facts ( they explain this away by talking about "corrupt police")
Nobody is claiming they deserved anything - nor does anyone get any satisfaction from their injuries - that is ridiculous - we just understand that they are full of sh#t and that their sob story of angry villagers attacking innocent Americans is 100 percent bullsh#t.
They made away with at least 25000 dollars for their troubles - and a life time of laughter and resentment - as evidenced by the many, many negative comments on their facebook page, on their home town news paper story and the their having to block comments on their blog.
If they would have just showed their ID to local authorities like any person with even a semblance of respect for local people would have done they would have never had any issues.
They deserve every ounce of the label - "ugly, stupid, American."
They are lucky they were not real robbers ot bandits or they would be dead

Edit - this is exactly what I said on the first day and I was 100 percent correct..
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 4, 2013 - 06:19am PT
From what I can tell the only 'Climbing' they did was with Paul Lyin' Ryan.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Philo, from the pictures on their blog, they are getting in more climbing then you are these days.
John M

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:22am PT
they didnt ask anything -

You presume too much Riley. Here in california I have worked with migrant workers and asked them questions and gotten a yes, when in fact they didn't understand a word that I said and had to ask one of their friends who did speak english. I learned quickly that just because they said yes didn't mean that they understood you.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you say Riley. I'm just not certain that you can be so certain in this case.

But whatever. I don't really have a dog in this race. Its just interesting to me. It would be cool to go down there and talk to the villagers over a beer. One newspaper down there quoted the village mayor as eluding to that they got a beating for being robbers. Are you saying the newspaper lied?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Interesting. The story has changed a bit...

While they were passing around the beers, two men in their 30s pulled up on motorbikes. They talked about the village, telling the travelers quirky facts about the area and its history.

“They seemed excited,” Wolfrom said.

After chatting with the two men, the group started to see small lights descending a nearby hillside. About 25 villagers were headed toward the group with flashlights.

I thought they asked these guys if it was ok and then after they said yes, the guys started calling everyone on their cell phones and yelling and screaming?? Weird....
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:42am PT
From the linked article upthread:

Though Jed and Meghan made it safely out of Peru, they still are traveling in South America and have had limited Internet access.

Knott so traumatized to prevent them from continuing their "adventure". I'm sure they very much appreciate your generous donations!

Some villagers smelled of alcohol, Wolfrom said.

This is almost certainly bullshít. Aside from their supposedly only purchasing 2 beers for a birthday celebration for 3 people, assuming they did indeed split those 2 beers equally (8 oz each), that's enough to give a woman of average build a nice buzz, and would put her BAC at approx. .015 to .020.

When you've been drinking you can't detect the smell of alcohol on others; anyone who consumes alcohol knows this.
John M

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Stories often change after a stressful event. The memory is a strange thing. A friend of mine works with rape victims. She describes how different the story becomes over time. It doesn't always mean the person was lying.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:55am PT
If you've ever been interviewed by media, you'd understand that usually only a small fraction of what you tell them is published in the article. Even where the media publishes interviews, you don't get to read the full interview most of the time--they publish excerpts.

Just because the news article doesn't include every detail that was in Jenny's article doesn't mean that it is inconsistent or that Jenny's story "changed."

When they spoke to the two villagers on motorbikes, they probably talked about the village and also about camping.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:57am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True. When things like that which have been reported multiple times change all of a sudden, i tend to find it suspicious.

It does sound more like the real version of what happened, less sensationalist.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Riley, after you learn how to handle encounters with uniformed park rangers in ways that don't result in you getting beat up, you'll be more qualified to lecture us on how to handle encounters with an angry mob. You were at hothead then, and you're being a hothead now.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 4, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
I don't know what side to believe; I do find it as exciting though as the tales of Wings of Steel and weither a commercial plane or a missle hit the Pentagon.
This would make a horrible book/movie but maybe an afterschool special for the little ones, flower it up with cartoon scenes of Peru.
They want donations??! Really? Anyone who allows these kids to continue travelling in South America likely gives money to also to T.V. Evangelists - depart with your $ how you see fit.
I am gonna be in Jackson with my son in April, I would love to attend the 'donations supper', sounds like fun fun.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
To paraphrase Werner: there's a whole lotta mental speculating goin' on here
with few facts to base such activity on. What's to be gained other than
to reinforce the need to be respectful and aware anywhere you go?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
What's to be gained other than
to reinforce the need to be respectful and aware anywhere you go?

Another thing to be gained is realizing that being respectful and aware does not mean you will always be safe.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
From the Wolfrom's blog:

We have also received a great amount of support and disbelief from Peruvians over this incident taking place in their country. We would like to express that we too are in disbelief. We have spent two amazing months in this country before this incident and cannot say we met a single other sole that wasn’t warm and welcoming to us. There are bad people everywhere in the world, in every country, just as there is good everywhere in the world. We just happened to enter in to the wrong place at the wrong time. We in no way reflect this situation on the country as a whole and hope that others will react in the same manner.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:26pm PT

Granite - do you ever get tired of being inaccurate?
I told ever tool in Yosemite to get f*#ked in the ass - because they were wrong - and they ended up apologizing for their mistake.
The ass kicking was all theirs

You are talking foolish - that crow you are eating is messing with your thinking...
Eat it in peace and try not to choke on it...
I'll even help ya eat it if ya let this stupid thread die.
lol

I'm not even interested in her new story with the changes..haven't read it and don't care..

Something else interesting though..
Watch the interview again..
If you have even the slightest ability to read people - you can pick up an incredible amount of non-verbal communication - nervousness far beyond the average interview jitters/ shifty glances/ unsure / subtle looks of reassurance as they try and progress with their story/ pained looks on their faces.. Dozens of little tells..
Can ya tell when people are lying?
This is a great video to learn how...

cheers!
Radical signing out..




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