Paul Ryan Fourteeners Thread Deleted! Why?

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Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 3, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
You can say that you can't say if you took the thread down and that you can't give any reason for taking it down if you took it down.

Everybody will understand.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 3, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
He can do what he likes but that does not make it right.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
Hmm, interesting. Unfortunately I'd imagine that most of these "we won't sue you if . . ." agreements also contain some sort of non-disclosure clause. I.e. you can't come out and say you took something down because they threatened to sue you, or they will sue you. We probably won't get much from CMac if that's the case. Unless it's after the election?

If that is what is going on, I think a post from Cmac stating that he is not at liberty to discuss this would speak volumes.
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
Hey chris, you could have fought it easily what kind of proof did they have?

Main article: United States defamation law
The origins of US defamation law pre-date the American Revolution; one famous 1734 case involving John Peter Zenger sowed the seed for the later establishment of truth as an absolute defense against libel charges. The outcome of the case is one of jury nullification, and not a case where the defense acquitted itself as a matter of law. (Previous English defamation law had not provided the defense of truth.) Though the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was designed to protect freedom of the press, for most of the history of the United States, the Supreme Court neglected to use it to rule on libel cases. This left libel laws, based upon the traditional common law of defamation inherited from the English legal system, mixed across the states. The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, however, dramatically altered the nature of libel law in the United States by elevating the fault element for public officials to actual malice—that is,
public figures could win a libel suit only if they could demonstrate the publisher's "knowledge that the information was false" or that the information was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not"
. Later Supreme Court cases dismissed the claim for libel and forbade libel claims for statements that are so ridiculous to be clearly not true, or that involve opinionated subjects such as one's physical state of being. Recent cases have addressed defamation law and the internet.
Defamation law in the United States is much less plaintiff-friendly than its counterparts in European and the Commonwealth countries. In the United States, a comprehensive discussion of what is and is not libel or slander is difficult, because the definition differs between different states, and under federal law. Some states codify what constitutes slander and libel together into the same set of laws. Criminal libel is rare or nonexistent, depending on the state. Defenses to libel that can result in dismissal before trial include the statement being one of opinion rather than fact or being "fair comment and criticism". Truth is always a defense.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
Perhaps Chris has simply adopted a policy of obliterating non-climbing threads after no one has posted to them for a while. They're rarely referred to or revived, and just take up bandwidth and storage space.
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
Isn't it only an assumption that something as suggested, took place???...

It is 100% speculation, yes, but I really can't think of any other reason why an entire thread would be nuked, can you?
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
True, but I am giving the taco the benefit of the doubt based on their history of minimal censorship. I would lean toward a letter of cease and desist which would seemed to force the uneducated hand.

There's one other possibility, the thread was moved to a non-public location for analysis, but that would not explain the removable from google cache (which is easy to accomplish). It appears to me like someone is erasing the past.
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:52pm PT
If the Ryan campaign did demand that the content be removed, there's a good chance it would qualify as a SLAPP. But I could completely understand not wanting to deal with it. The climbers' forum isn't Chris' main business.
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
Correct...
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Nov 3, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
This one is up and still easily googled:

http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2012/09/11/media-accuse-ryan-lying-about-mountain-climbing


Perhaps already posted but I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.



Any public figures start boasting on climbing feats, they're going to have to answer US right here.

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 3, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
Y'all gotta be careful when you start pokin' around in something, no telling where it might lead.


Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Nov 3, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
Just a thought suggesting there was perhaps no threat from the Romney/Ryan camp.

Such a threat would itself be newsworthy and publishable. Publicity like that would draw even more attention to the false claims and make Ryan look even worse. Much worse.

All wild speculation about why the thread is gone is just that, wild speculation.
little Z

Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
Nov 3, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
OMG!, WTF!, I can't beleive it, the "Benghazi, what's Obama hiding" thread has been completely deleted, not to be found anywhere?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1972017/Benghazi-Whats-Obama-Hiding

Looks like Obama has finally gotten around to reading ST and doesn't like what he sees, and so has pulled the plug. It's like my Grandmother always used to say "Those democrats are such a bunch of..."

oh wait, sorry, looks like the thread is still there. never mind.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 3, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
Has anyone contacted the journalists/bloggers who quoted the thread?
I haven't, but there are a lot of quotes from the ST posts on the other sites, however, the ST links do not work.

squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 06:21pm PT
This is still up: http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2012/09/05/climb-mountain-paul-ryan-fourteeners/80482/
but it does not appear to quote the taco..

and this: http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2012/09/05/climb-mountain-paul-ryan-fourteeners/80482/?doing_wp_cron=1351981523.7825920581817626953125

oh here's one with supertopo quotes and links, to a now dead thread.
http://www.ibtimes.com/paul-ryan-lying-about-being-mountain-climber-well-marathon-runner-779309

and another
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2012/09/11/media-accuse-ryan-lying-about-mountain-climbing
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
so it would appear the taco is alone in it's deletion? That means there's prolly some other explanation...like someone posted a picture of a vagina or something and the admin clicked the wrong delete button...
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
I bet chris is out doing something more exciting, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 3, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
squishy

The Daily Kos page disappeared too, but is accessible in webcache...

The interesting thing is that there is no mention of ST in the article itself only in the comments.


From Kalimon:

Seriously . . . from the first day of his being installed as Mittens running mate this guy proved himself to be full of sh#t. Whatever his connection with literature or music, be assured it is not authentic. Same with his 14er record . . . let's see the summit registers.

It's a weird set of circumstances.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ip9ZuDKmfOUJ:www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/01/1126777/-Paul-Ryan-Al-Bundy-and-why-sports-don-t-build-character-they-reveal
jstan

climber
Nov 3, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
It is hard to believe any campaign would make a traceable request to suppress information. So if there was any such request it would have consisted of one or two personal phone calls. Probably from a PAC. Chris would have had to consider two factors.
1. if some corporate donor were to bring legal action (unlikely) could he survive the legal costs
It is even more unlikely the campaign would bring action
2. Does Chris want to be on record as opposing someone who potentially could become president

The smart response would have been for the data on ST with comments by established experts on mountaineering to be called to the attention, by telephone, of a good number of newspapers.

For all we know that was what happened.

I personally am remiss. I and everyone else who values transparency and freedom needs to be supporting the print media. The Gray Lady is available on line for $8.75 a week. A large portion is available free of any charge at all. Without an independent print media, our country cannot survive.

I have just now subscribed to the New York Times online edition.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Nov 3, 2012 - 07:48pm PT
Maybe CMac doesn't even know..

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