RA,
For what its' worth your careful work on this topic made for interesting albeit disturbing reading and IMHO needs to be part of the broad historical record on Mr Ryan-it is relevant to the climbing culture and says a lot about our collective expectations of character.
I noticed it was gone quite some time ago. I couldn't remember who started it, but thought the he/she did it. However, all traces seem to be gone.
There are other comments about Ryan in other threads that are certainly not flattering, but they are still intact.
EDIT:
I believe it is true that when the author deletes the post the original is deleted, but the comments by others, or at least some subset of them remain. In this case everything appears to be gone.
I am guessing it was probably the thread author who did it. I forget who that was.
Wonder if Chris can put it back somehow because it was a unique climbing/political topic. The First Amendment protects the site from any possible liability arising from comments about politicians, so it wasn't that.
I have the material that formed the posts and maybe I'll repost them.
The person who started the thread can delete the first post, but the remainder of the thread is still there, just harder to find. A sort of ghost thread. Normally when that happens, one can search for key words, e.g. "Colorado fourteeners" to find the subsequent posts, and then see the thread, without header and first post. Not in this case - searching for the obvious key words doesn't reveal anything.
The other possibility is that whoever put in the first post has been not only banned, but had all his/her posts deleted - I think that may also delete any threads she/he started.
Perhaps stale non-climbing threads now get completely deleted?
What I heard was that Paul Ryan spent a week in Colorado last month and ticked all the remaining 14ers on his list. So now that he has climbed all of them, there was no longer any need to argue about the first forty.
After the election, he's going to take a week off to tick the Seven Summits before rolling up his sleeves and going back to work. At whatever job he holds after the election.
The ST Forum database has been hacked. Everybody should immediately stop including their social security and credit card numbers in posts, until this can be cleared up.
Interesting that The Daily Kos site which referenced the ST thread is not currently accessible.
Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to www.dailykos.com
Looking at it another way, what is it that Rick was all afire to add to the thread, anyway? He did a fine job of chopping Ryan's claims into little bits already.
Seems like a very deep scraping of the thread. Why the effort to remove all traces? Silly.
Silly? I don't think so. There has to be something more than just silliness involved if all content of the thread was wiped not just from ST, but from Google (and from Bing and Yahoo as well -- I checked those sites, too). WTF?
I doubt Y5.9 is a plant. He's been here forever. Based on the depth of the scraping, it's gotta be something else. But why? The cows left the Ryan barn long ago.
g
EDIT: I was thinking of another Y5.9. The current incarnation has been here about one year.
Silly? I don't think so. There has to be something more than just silliness involved if all content of the thread was wiped not just from ST, but from Google (and from Bing and Yahoo as well -- I checked those sites, too). WTF?
Ghost, all the (major at least) search engines allow site owners to control what is indexed and cached.
Well that is seriously f*#ked.
Paul Ryan is a lying piece of sh#t and we proved it!
It was even picked up and quoted by the National News
Edit - perhaps this 5.9 guy asked for a favor.
RJ was just nice enough and, not knowing this 5.9 doucher was a republican hack, deleted the entire thread at 5.9s request.
Yosemite 5.9 posted the thread because he thought it is was cool that Paul Ryan was a climber!
He was trying to get us to like lying Ryan
That's why I think he may be a plant
It was like a advertisement for Paul Ryan
didn't anyone read the OP?
I may be wrong, but I have an extra good memory
my threads aren't worth saving
But I won't delete them
Anyone can delete their own thread
You go to the first post, which will always give you the option to edit (but you can't edit the topic title) and click on delete post
Gone
^ah the notorious 1000 post toasties - how did you do it?
Take as a recent example, eKat's protein powder thread. It kind of bottomed out and it appears that she deleted the OP. However, the 37 comments are still with us to this day.
its gone from up high.. and for them to scrub all the search engines too is really wierd.. last thread i seen like this was seth's werner troll thread, and even that one stuck around the search engine cache's for awhile.. someone wanted it gone... someone big.
An excerpt;
Hey James - caught your entertaining piece. Unfortunately, you've got some bad info in there. We're not sure where this started, but he's not said 40 different peaks, its nearly 40 climbs - with a number of peaks climbed more than once. He's been doing them for more than 20 years. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article from '09 doesn't say 40 separate summits, but instead "He is fairly careful about what he eats, performs an intense cross-training routine known as P90X most mornings, and has made close to 40 climbs of Colorado's "Fourteeners" (14,000-foot peaks)."
Still doesn't answer why the entire thread and all traces of it is gone.
Rick, I think you're on to something with the 1st amendment angle.
If this was done in response to some sort of threat from the Romney/Ryan camp, then GOD DAMN IT! That ain't right.
(I did not even know WhoTF Ryan WAS when I first saw that thread. Never opened it.)
edited to add;
If CMac got rid of the whole shebang of his own accord, fine, it's his web site.
ZBrown,
No puzzle, I'ts been a while since I started the thread. I mistakenly said 1000 posts. It was less. Karl's follow up thread was huge and I followed it. I was mistaken.
I've looked up plenty of deleted threads - they are always there minus the first post.
It was either deleted as a favor...RJ will delete posts if asked - he is a very nice guy.
Or it was deleted by admin because of pressure - very bad
Or it was hacked by republicans and deleted - which is orwellian in it ridiculousness.
I hope Lying Ryan himself read it - the glorious climbing world quite literally shoved it up his ass.
Mr. Ryan, we know climbers, we are climbers, and you sir, are no climber!
Yosemite 5.9 - Paul Ryan claims to have climbed X 14,000 foot high Colo. peaks. (speculation, not confirmed as it may have been the CIA that deleted it)
Jody - Obama thread.
Coz -Deleted his “BD Countdown Clock” where he called out Peter metcalf. - this is the 2nd one, had it been his first he would get the “not being a pussy” pass. We are passing on the pass now due to multiple instances.
Brandon - Why Occupiers are as#@&%es thread.
Philo - Deleted the “I’ll never post on Supertopo again cause Russ is a meany. “
Cragman - Dean, deleted the "Another dictator dead....Muammar Qaddafi" thread
Norton deleted some thread.
Seth Jackson = deleted his Wings of Steel money raiser thread.
Bluering = deleted his "Haters" thread.
Dr F. - deleted his first "Why are those Republicans so wrong on everything" thread.
t*r = bunch of them, too many to list.
Pud = Occupy protesters need to move on thread
Crazy Horse - Southern yosemite thread
Part-time communist -any hot guys around here? thread
Footloose = Mystery What's going on here?
Ron Gomez - Dave Yerian thread
Squishy -Aid gear sale, D5 hammer (for too much money) sale
iannonymous = EE questions, Expert replies appreciated.
Deleted with good reason:
Oli - Gets a pass as he thought that his copy-writes were being given up by posting.
Nutjob - request for divorce help thread and the thank you for that help thread. It was a personal request for help and he was upfront and said he would delete it once he had the info and he did.
Coz - MTUCKER IS KIETH LOBER
james Colborn - Cascade falls Accident Sat. Jan 14 (only after one reply, gets a pass for both reasons)
Johntp -Deleted the Fullerton police killed a transient thread “because it went too far off topic and went sutpid. “
Hey Brandon, I think sorting out what was in the original and comparing it with what is in the reposted version would be an interesting side puzzle (and
my memory isn't what it used to be either).
The puzzle I alluded to is what happened on ST and in other places on the internet regarding the Ryan thread.
"Media Accuse Ryan of Lying About…Mountain Climbing?
By Randy Hall | September 11, 2012 | 15:57
During any presidential campaign, wild accusations fly back and forth between the GOP and the Democratic Party, but the liberal media hit a new low last Wednesday when they made the ridiculous assertion that Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan has been lying about the number of times he's hiked Colorado's mountainsides.
With the economy and jobless rate in the nation in terrible shape, the first attack on this unimportant subject came from James Fallows of the Atlantic magazine with an article entitled “Paul Ryan, Mountaineer.”
It quoted an interview Ryan gave to Craig Gilbert of the Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel on April 26, 2009, in which Gilbert quoted the Republican Congressman as stating that he'd made close to 40 climbs of Colorado's "Fourteeners" (14,000-foot peaks).”
Fallows then quoted a blog from the Supertopo in which an unidentified climber said that the “54 peaks are scattered throughout remote parts of Colorado, and you have to visit out-of-the-way little towns and valleys to tick the list, towns and valleys that you would never visit otherwise.”
I doubt Ryan had the time or dedication to fourteeners to take the required time out from his political career. Even if you did four a summer, that would be ten summers devoted to traveling to Colorado for the purpose of high altitude hiking. Even if you live here and can drive to the trail heads, forty is a huge commitment of time and energy.
Brendan Buck of the Romney Campaign was quick to respond to the article, releasing a statement hours later that the criticisms of Ryan's comments on mountain climbing have “some bad info in there” before stating that the Republican candidate has “been doing this for more than 20 years.”
Even though Buck's information was quickly added to Fallows' online article, it didn't take long for the accusation to reach other liberal outlets, including Progress Now Colorado which is demanding proof that Ryan actually climbed the mountains he said he did.
A press release the following day entitled "Did 'Lyin' Ryan' Really Climb Forty Colorado Fourteeners?" called for Ryan to “release photos, summit logs, and any other evidence he has to back up his claim that he climbed forty of our state's highest mountains -- or come clean with Colorado that he's lying about his 'peak bagger' record, too.”
The group timed the release so it was available while Ryan visited Colorado Springs during a campaign swing in the area.
As a result, the liberal organization received coverage from Fox 31 in Denver, which quipped that the Wisconsin Republican “is facing a mountain of criticism by his naysayers in Colorado.”
The growing controversy led Craig Gilbert, who did the original interview with Ryan, to try to set the record straight.
In a blog posting, the journalist stated that during the interview, “Ryan did not claim to have climbed close to 40 different “fourteeners,” as has been reported by some. (Colorado has more than fifty 14,000-foot peaks,)”
“He said he made close to 40 climbs (climbing some peaks more than once),” Gilbert added.
Warner Todd Huston of Breitbart.com stated he thought the Democrats were “making a mountain out of a molehill” by “garbling the truth” in their attacks on Ryan.
But also on Thursday, Farrows posted an article entitled “Finale on Ryan as Mountain Climber” in which he stated, “I don't know anything about mountain climbing,” and admitted, “Like, apparently, many other people, I drew the wrong inference from Paul Ryan's comment.”
Included in the “ton of mail” he'd received on the topic, one email writer stated:
I really wish you guys would stick to questioning Mr. Ryan's, Mr. Romney's and his opponents' stands on policy issues in the next four years...that is much more important to the voting public.
“Advice accepted,” Farrows wrote. “I am leaving the rest of this to the mountaineers.”
The saddest part of this controversy is that the media are so busy straining to find anything that will tarnish the Mitt Romney-Paul Ryan Republican ticket that they plow ahead regardless of the poor state of the economy.
I don't know if they can find anything as ridiculous as this to waste more precious campaign time, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything the media come up with between now and November 6."
I really wish you guys would stick to questioning Mr. Ryan's, Mr. Romney's and his opponents' stands on policy issues in the next four years...that is much more important to the voting public.
Why would you ask somebody a question in good faith when you know that he's going to lie in the answer?
Whether someone is credible is at least as important as getting an answer - no?
"Media Accuse Ryan of Lying About…Mountain Climbing?
By Randy Hall | September 11, 2012 | 15:57
During any presidential campaign, wild accusations fly back and forth between the GOP and the Democratic Party, but the liberal media hit a new low last Wednesday when they made the ridiculous assertion that Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan has been lying about the number of times he's hiked Colorado's mountainsides.
With the economy and jobless rate in the nation in terrible shape, the first attack on this unimportant subject came from James Fallows of the Atlantic magazine with an article entitled “Paul Ryan, Mountaineer.”
It quoted an interview Ryan gave to Craig Gilbert of the Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel on April 26, 2009, in which Gilbert quoted the Republican Congressman as stating that he'd made close to 40 climbs of Colorado's "Fourteeners" (14,000-foot peaks).”
Fallows then quoted a blog from the Supertopo in which an unidentified climber said that the “54 peaks are scattered throughout remote parts of Colorado, and you have to visit out-of-the-way little towns and valleys to tick the list, towns and valleys that you would never visit otherwise.”
I doubt Ryan had the time or dedication to fourteeners to take the required time out from his political career. Even if you did four a summer, that would be ten summers devoted to traveling to Colorado for the purpose of high altitude hiking. Even if you live here and can drive to the trail heads, forty is a huge commitment of time and energy.
Brendan Buck of the Romney Campaign was quick to respond to the article, releasing a statement hours later that the criticisms of Ryan's comments on mountain climbing have “some bad info in there” before stating that the Republican candidate has “been doing this for more than 20 years.”
Even though Buck's information was quickly added to Fallows' online article, it didn't take long for the accusation to reach other liberal outlets, including Progress Now Colorado which is demanding proof that Ryan actually climbed the mountains he said he did.
A press release the following day entitled "Did 'Lyin' Ryan' Really Climb Forty Colorado Fourteeners?" called for Ryan to “release photos, summit logs, and any other evidence he has to back up his claim that he climbed forty of our state's highest mountains -- or come clean with Colorado that he's lying about his 'peak bagger' record, too.”
The group timed the release so it was available while Ryan visited Colorado Springs during a campaign swing in the area.
As a result, the liberal organization received coverage from Fox 31 in Denver, which quipped that the Wisconsin Republican “is facing a mountain of criticism by his naysayers in Colorado.”
The growing controversy led Craig Gilbert, who did the original interview with Ryan, to try to set the record straight.
In a blog posting, the journalist stated that during the interview, “Ryan did not claim to have climbed close to 40 different “fourteeners,” as has been reported by some. (Colorado has more than fifty 14,000-foot peaks,)”
“He said he made close to 40 climbs (climbing some peaks more than once),” Gilbert added.
Warner Todd Huston of Breitbart.com stated he thought the Democrats were “making a mountain out of a molehill” by “garbling the truth” in their attacks on Ryan.
But also on Thursday, Farrows posted an article entitled “Finale on Ryan as Mountain Climber” in which he stated, “I don't know anything about mountain climbing,” and admitted, “Like, apparently, many other people, I drew the wrong inference from Paul Ryan's comment.”
Included in the “ton of mail” he'd received on the topic, one email writer stated:
I really wish you guys would stick to questioning Mr. Ryan's, Mr. Romney's and his opponents' stands on policy issues in the next four years...that is much more important to the voting public.
“Advice accepted,” Farrows wrote. “I am leaving the rest of this to the mountaineers.”
The saddest part of this controversy is that the media are so busy straining to find anything that will tarnish the Mitt Romney-Paul Ryan Republican ticket that they plow ahead regardless of the poor state of the economy.
I don't know if they can find anything as ridiculous as this to waste more precious campaign time, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything the media come up with between now and November 6."
Hmmmmm, substance or doe sit go to credibility? Are they both Mormon Kenyan Muslims?
This is inexplicable really, but I don't buy the conspiracy theories. I'll start a new thread tomorrow using the content from my posts on the deleted thread.If it gets deleted, you'll know it wasn't me that did it.
Wait a minute. Someone at the front door...and the back door. They are coming for me!! Save yourselves before it's too la
If CMac got rid of the whole shebang of his own accord, fine, it's his web site.
I call it a steaming pile of BS.
Sure it is CMacs site but the content belongs to all of US.
He benifits directly from all of US and our "hits" on his site.
I believe we are owed an explanation.
Come on CMac what's up? Did you pull the plug under pressure or has your site been hacked from outside?
I think we should keep this bumped to the top till we hear the story.
If that doesn't work then I suggest this thread get cloned more than 20 times to flood the forum til answers are made available.
My guess is CMAC was threatened with a lawsuit by the Romney campaign. I'm sure he could have won if it had gone to court but like most such types of lawsuits it's the threat that works because going to court costs money even if you win.
Infact I would be surprised if he wasn't threatened. These campaigns have hundreds of lawyers at their disposal.
Understand this
Our posts were a legitimate concern to the campaign of a guy who may become president
Fallows then quoted a blog from the Supertopo in which an unidentified climber said that the “54 peaks are scattered throughout remote parts of Colorado, and you have to visit out-of-the-way little towns and valleys to tick the list, towns and valleys that you would never visit otherwise.”
Hmm, interesting. Unfortunately I'd imagine that most of these "we won't sue you if . . ." agreements also contain some sort of non-disclosure clause. I.e. you can't come out and say you took something down because they threatened to sue you, or they will sue you. We probably won't get much from CMac if that's the case. Unless it's after the election?
No one is saying it is not his site, or that he can't do what he likes with it.
What is being asked, and I think it's a legitimate question that deserves an answer, is: "Why was the thread permanently deleted from Supertopo, and why were all traces of it removed from the search engines?"
Hmm, interesting. Unfortunately I'd imagine that most of these "we won't sue you if . . ." agreements also contain some sort of non-disclosure clause. I.e. you can't come out and say you took something down because they threatened to sue you, or they will sue you. We probably won't get much from CMac if that's the case. Unless it's after the election?
If that is what is going on, I think a post from Cmac stating that he is not at liberty to discuss this would speak volumes.
Hey chris, you could have fought it easily what kind of proof did they have?
Main article: United States defamation law
The origins of US defamation law pre-date the American Revolution; one famous 1734 case involving John Peter Zenger sowed the seed for the later establishment of truth as an absolute defense against libel charges. The outcome of the case is one of jury nullification, and not a case where the defense acquitted itself as a matter of law. (Previous English defamation law had not provided the defense of truth.) Though the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was designed to protect freedom of the press, for most of the history of the United States, the Supreme Court neglected to use it to rule on libel cases. This left libel laws, based upon the traditional common law of defamation inherited from the English legal system, mixed across the states. The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, however, dramatically altered the nature of libel law in the United States by elevating the fault element for public officials to actual malice—that is,
public figures could win a libel suit only if they could demonstrate the publisher's "knowledge that the information was false" or that the information was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not"
. Later Supreme Court cases dismissed the claim for libel and forbade libel claims for statements that are so ridiculous to be clearly not true, or that involve opinionated subjects such as one's physical state of being. Recent cases have addressed defamation law and the internet.
Defamation law in the United States is much less plaintiff-friendly than its counterparts in European and the Commonwealth countries. In the United States, a comprehensive discussion of what is and is not libel or slander is difficult, because the definition differs between different states, and under federal law. Some states codify what constitutes slander and libel together into the same set of laws. Criminal libel is rare or nonexistent, depending on the state. Defenses to libel that can result in dismissal before trial include the statement being one of opinion rather than fact or being "fair comment and criticism". Truth is always a defense.
Perhaps Chris has simply adopted a policy of obliterating non-climbing threads after no one has posted to them for a while. They're rarely referred to or revived, and just take up bandwidth and storage space.
True. But, the site can't exist without us, no? To keep it up, Chris can't delete all those controversial, politicly incorrect, or whatever threads. I am sure he understands that. If he was pressed to delete the Ryan's thread, gods help us because the USA is no longer a country for the people. I am moving to North Korea!
True, but I am giving the taco the benefit of the doubt based on their history of minimal censorship. I would lean toward a letter of cease and desist which would seemed to force the uneducated hand.
There's one other possibility, the thread was moved to a non-public location for analysis, but that would not explain the removable from google cache (which is easy to accomplish). It appears to me like someone is erasing the past.
If the Ryan campaign did demand that the content be removed, there's a good chance it would qualify as a SLAPP. But I could completely understand not wanting to deal with it. The climbers' forum isn't Chris' main business.
Just a thought suggesting there was perhaps no threat from the Romney/Ryan camp.
Such a threat would itself be newsworthy and publishable. Publicity like that would draw even more attention to the false claims and make Ryan look even worse. Much worse.
All wild speculation about why the thread is gone is just that, wild speculation.
Looks like Obama has finally gotten around to reading ST and doesn't like what he sees, and so has pulled the plug. It's like my Grandmother always used to say "Those democrats are such a bunch of..."
oh wait, sorry, looks like the thread is still there. never mind.
Has anyone contacted the journalists/bloggers who quoted the thread?
I haven't, but there are a lot of quotes from the ST posts on the other sites, however, the ST links do not work.
so it would appear the taco is alone in it's deletion? That means there's prolly some other explanation...like someone posted a picture of a vagina or something and the admin clicked the wrong delete button...
The Daily Kos page disappeared too, but is accessible in webcache...
The interesting thing is that there is no mention of ST in the article itself only in the comments.
From Kalimon:
Seriously . . . from the first day of his being installed as Mittens running mate this guy proved himself to be full of sh#t. Whatever his connection with literature or music, be assured it is not authentic. Same with his 14er record . . . let's see the summit registers.
It is hard to believe any campaign would make a traceable request to suppress information. So if there was any such request it would have consisted of one or two personal phone calls. Probably from a PAC. Chris would have had to consider two factors.
1. if some corporate donor were to bring legal action (unlikely) could he survive the legal costs
It is even more unlikely the campaign would bring action
2. Does Chris want to be on record as opposing someone who potentially could become president
The smart response would have been for the data on ST with comments by established experts on mountaineering to be called to the attention, by telephone, of a good number of newspapers.
For all we know that was what happened.
I personally am remiss. I and everyone else who values transparency and freedom needs to be supporting the print media. The Gray Lady is available on line for $8.75 a week. A large portion is available free of any charge at all. Without an independent print media, our country cannot survive.
I have just now subscribed to the New York Times online edition.
yeah didn't Obama pay off Christie? interesting difference between the pubs and the dems - pubs - pay to shut up - dems - pay to speak up
Christie doing the old "man love" thing
This was a good thread and at least somewhat climbing related.
Perhaps its deletion (even if rectified) should be a reminder not to get too invested in a website controlled by one idiosyncratic guy who is not terribly concerned whether any user or group of users approves of what he does.
Probably a fabricated lie against Ryan and the source was threatened with libel legal action. Or worse.
Not sure I follow you on that Steve. Are you saying that the claim that Ryan did 40 (or so) 14,000-foot climbs in Colorado was a fabrication? Well, we all agree with that. But since the source of that claim was Ryan himself, I doubt that's what you mean.
But I'm not sure what you do mean. What is it that you're saying was a fabricated lie against Mr. Ryan? And who threatened whom with legal action? As to the "Or worse," you've really got me confused. Are you implying that someone (The GOP?) threatened CMac with something worse than a lawsuit? As in they were going to send a couple of guys around to break a few bones?
Not trying to be argumentative here, it's just that I really don't understand your post.
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 4, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
"I think somebody took him out of context and slandered him."
Why is you guys never seem to whine like this when the slander is aimed at a Democrat?
Not just a Democrat...but someone who actually served his own country, who gets swiftboated by the campaign of a college-cokehead, draft deferring chickenhawk?
I think somebody took him out of context and slandered him.
Whats sad is that Rick went through and explained everything, even going back and getting Ryan's words and you can't be bothered to read it, instead you just...think... you know the answer.
Can you explain the "under 3 hours" comment on the marathon. I bet you can't. But I also bet you have never ran long distance so wouldn't understand the significance.
After the last episode in the 1920's when the republican party stymied the government's duty to "regulate", it took nearly ten years for the economy to turn around. Obama has bit the bullet to keep us out of another Hooverian disaster by spending as needed to do it. You can fault him if you would rather that the US had gone out of the car business so that your investments might have profited more. On the other hand in a depression you might have ended up making no studio equipment at all and have been out of work.
We all need to be aware of what history can tell us.
I had looked at the history and had bet that there would be a W. disaster. No biggie to see that one coming.
Not just a Democrat...but someone who actually served his own country, who gets swiftboated by the campaign of a college-cokehead, draft deferring chickenhawk?
You want to forget Obama's dreams and promises that are unfulfilled?
What human doesn't have dreams that are unfulfilled, Blue?
As far as promises go, we hear this jive from conservatives all the time - please give an example of Obama PROMISING to do something he hasn't.
No doubt he has not been able to accomplish many things he said he wanted to do in his first term, mostly due to stubborn obstructionism on the right, but to call those things "promises" is typical right wing BS.
Find one quote, ONE, where he actually promises to do something he hasn't.
I'm just coming out of my rock to say, this is WAY Off Topic!
Credit: Vegasclimber
OT Marmot is late to the party!
Look guys and gals, it's simple. This site is owned by one person. They make the calls, the end. You rant and rave every time a thread gets deleted, or someone gets banned, hundreds and hundreds of posts that have nothing to do with climbing content. You keep it all over the front page, which really screws up the initial impression of anyone visiting this site for the first time, thinking that it's a climbing site. And these posts have exactly zero impact on the decisions made, and do nothing to change them.
The person that owns this site can delete whatever and whomever they wish, and does not need to offer any explanation for doing so. In fact, I think if Chris did respond, it would set off at least another 200 post shitstorm to whatever he had to say. If I was in his shoes, I would think there was no point in responding. He doesn't need to defend or explain his actions.
Don't like it? Find another site, or start your own. Stop bitching and whining about stuff that you have no control over, and never will. You'll feel a lot better and it will probably make the site look better too.
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2012
Republican Thugs - Paul Ryan Style!
Cross Posted @ Cog Dis!
We all know what happens when you speak the truth about Paul Ryan (R- The Capitol):
YOU MUST BE PUNISHED!!!
We all know last weekend, Paul Ryan staged a photo op at a closed down homeless shelter, where he cleaned dirty dishes and took pictures like he cared. The director of the homeless shelter prop that rAYN used, was not happy!
He added: “The photo-op they did wasn’t even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.”
“Had they asked for permission, it wouldn’t have been granted. … But I certainly wouldn’t have let him wash clean pans and then take a picture,” Antal said.
The Director was not interested in being anyone's political prop from any party and he let that be known. He had a job to do after all, feeding the homeless!
However, no one tells the truth about Paul Ryan and gets away with it!! The Soup kitchen in Ryan's, clean the clean dishe,s photo op is now facing a major backlash!!
Ryan may have suffered a few late-night jokes, but the fallout for the soup kitchen appears to be far more bruising. Brian J. Antal, president of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, confirmed that donors have begun an exodus in protest over Ryan's embarrassment. The monetary losses have been big. "It appears to be a substantial amount," Antal said. "You can rest assured there has been a substantial backlash."
Antal says he can't give an actual dollar amount. "I can't say how much [in] donations we lost," he said. "Donations are a private matter with our organization."
Antal's charity represents the kind of organization that conservative Republicans might champion. But that was before the Ryan incident went viral a few days ago. According to The Washington Post, Antal said that the moment should never have happened. He told the newspaper that the photo-op was not authorized and that the campaign had “ramrodded their way” inside.
OOPS! This is Paul Ryan's world, where he wants to go, he goes! So Mr. Antal(and the homeless people he serves) HAVE to be taught a lesson!! At least the republican's making the threats to the unpaid soup kitchen director and volunteers are remaining anonymous!
Ryan supporters have now targeted Antal and his soup kitchen, Antal said, including making hundreds of angry phone calls. Some members of Antal's volunteer staff have had to endure the barrage as well, he said. "The sad part is a lot of [the callers] want to hide behind anonymity," he said, adding that if someone leaves their name and number he has tried to return their call. In addition to phone calls, people have posted a few choice words on the charity's Facebook wall, including statements like "I hope you lose your tax [sic] emempt status," Anyone who is thinking about donations to you should think twice" and "Shame on you Brian Antal!"
On the phone with HuffPost, Antal seemed worn out by all the vitriol. "Honesty, I really don't need any more attention," he said. "I really just want this to go away."
Antal said doesn't understand why donors would take out their frustration over the incident on those who can't afford to pay for their own meals. "I'm a volunteer,' he said. "I receive zero compensation. Withholding donations is only going to hurt the over 100,000 we serve annually."
Sorry Mr. Antal, that is where you have it wrong! The Paul Ryan Goon squad has no interest in what happens to the 100,000 meals you serve or the people who so desperately need them at all. They want to send a message to anyone else in the future.
NEVER TALK BAD ABOUT PAUL RYAN!!!
Lesson learned! So what if a few thousand people are going hungry because of it!!
Good Lord if they are willing to threaten a charitable not for profit soup kitchen just imagine the horrors they could perpetrate on a privately owned for profit web site.
OMG that's it Lyin Ryan must have threatened to come and clean CMac's dishes.
If R&R are responsible for this then maybe they should be given another chance.
Perhaps they could make the deficit disapper? China? Unemployment? Global warming?
Got one day left to decide.
I do wonder whether cMac is going to make any comment about this and why it is that some non-ST Ryan moutain climbing related articles on the web disappeared, while some didn't.
This may be total coincidence but I don't remember seeing Romney support advertising before the thread was erased? Am I wrong in my observation? Has Romney adds been on the Topo before this?
This may be total coincidence but I don't remember seeing Romney support advertising before the thread was erased? Am I wrong in my observation? Has Romney adds been on the Topo before this?
No he has always popped up - its a google thing - just trying to mind f*#k you in anyway possible related to the words that are written and read.
Never know...Newsmax Media, Inc. may have a lot of cash to dump as the election is tomorrow. They could have presented Chris with a bunch of $$ for advertising -- provided they get rid of the most publicized thread that recently brought people to the Taco.
Here is my guess: the owner of this site has repeatedly requested that the political bullshite be kept to a minimum. A supertopo thread gets outed in some political article about Ryan, no doubt dragging more non-climbing, ill informed blowhards to this site. Deletion might cut some of them off at the pass.
Ooooh CockEye you stopped ass raping yourself with an oversized oosik long enough to crawl out from behind the woodwork and spew santorum again. You are a cowardly anonymous trollboi. Your parents must be so proud.
Ooooh CockEye you stopped ass raping yourself with an oversized oosik long enough to crawl out from behind the woodwork and spew santorum again. You are a cowardly anonymous trollboi. Your parents must be so proud.
philo,
you are a pussy. but thats ok. we legalized gay marriage in my state and 420, it might make you feel better to get high and get married at the same time.
Well, I hope you're all happy. All this talk of what a lying bitch Ryan was focused attention on the facts and cost him and Romney the election. Proceed to 4 more years of hope and change round 2. Ding ding ding.
This poster, for example, is already fading....time to move on and get the topic back where it belongs. Sarah Palin. ...not.
The remaining issue is why Chris McNamara, the owner of Supertopo, saw fit to delete the thread in the weeks before the election. It is likely that the deleted thread brought more attention to Supertopo outside of the climbing community than any other thread in its history. A thread that might have been viewed for years to come, especially if Ryan runs for President in four years, is now gone. So it is very curious as to why this happened. Since Chris has chosen not to explain himself, we can only speculate.
There are a couple possibilities that have been suggested:
1) He was threatened by GOP operatives . If Chris caved to this pressure, he was not getting good legal advice. The First Amendment would certainly protect him against any liability arising from a Ryan supporter's lawsuit, there would be hordes of volunteer climbing lawyers lined up to defend him pro bono if that happened, and public exposure of the litigation threat would certainly make them back down. Has anyone ever heard of any candidate for national office bringing such a suit? It just doesn't happen. So, I have ruled this out.
2 )He received a financial incentive to delete the thread from some republican funding source. That is too mercenary for me to believe. I have ruled this out too.
3) A poster to the thread was offended by a personal remark in it and asked it to be deleted. This is more likely since a libel suit by a non-public figure can be a real threat to a forum like this. This seems the most likely explanation to me, but I don't remember anything particularly scandalous said about anyone on that thread. Sure, there were the occasional "inanely combative" comments, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Chris can do what he wants with his site and can delete any thread. But Supertopo promotes it's discussion forum as a "community." It certainly detracts from any sense of "community" when a unique political/climbing thread disappears and no explanation is offered.
It also displays a disturbing arrogance by the owner of this site to simply ignore this subject. I have written Chris privately, and asked him publicly for an explanation. But nothing.
The way this has been handled by ST is surprising and just not "good blokery", as a Brit might put it.
Ricky, I agree completely with you just above and the fact there hasn't been an explanation for the thread's disappearance should be disturbing to everyone here.
But Supertopo promotes it's discussion forum as a "community." It certainly detracts from any sense of "community" when a unique political/climbing thread disappears and no explanation is offered.
I can't remember Supertopo.com actively promoting the discussion forum as a community. My perception of the forum is that it's always been the red-headed stepchild in that it's there, you can use it, but the site owners don't care all that much about it in any capacity except as a magnet to drive people to supertopo.com for possible increased product sales.
Someone once said a candidate for the Supreme Court should be approved because
"Average people should have representation on the court."
Good to see Sarah Palin is still on our minds. Despite the best efforts of many over the past 200 years, her demographic has yet to live at 1600 Pa Ave. Mitt was a good shot but somehow we were denied yet again.
General questions, discussion, community — join the conversation!
Werner-I can certainly understand a small business owner wishing to avoid even the remote possibility of financial trouble over a thread. What I cannot understand is taking this unusual action and then refusing to discuss why it occurred. If he just said what you said, privately, or publicly, I'd probably shut up.
Well, at least for a while until Ryan runs for president in a few years.
General questions, discussion, community — join the conversation!
Indeed. But the word "promote" still bothers me. Open to interpretation, as is often the case.
To me, the text at the top of the page is more "describing" the forum as a community than "promoting" the forum as a community.
Bottom line is that I just don't see the mission of this forum as any quasi-official institution (or otherwise bearing any obligations) in the climbing world. I see it as a private website where the owners can do whatever they please -- "caveat emptor" (or caveat "poster"), so to speak.
Here's another example from google of ST's promotion of the "community" forum:
SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors.
As I said, I understand a website owner wanting to protect his business; no one would begrudge this, even if it is were overcautious. Chris certainly has every right to delete threads at his will.
It's just not a very civil way to treat the "community" he promotes to refuse to discuss the reasons for doing it here. Just looking for some common courtesy, really.
"If he just said what you said, privately, or publicly"...
For all ANY of us know...
it has been discussed in great detail PRIVATELY (or not at all, or just a little bit, or???)...
EDITED:
"It's just not a very civil way to treat the "community" he promotes to refuse to discuss the reasons for doing it here. Just looking for some common courtesy, really."...
Other than that video some time back...
I don't EVER recall a time when any explanation was given for pretty much anything that goes on in here (i.e. Booted without obvious reasons, deleted threads, etc...)...
My GUESS is, it's probably the EASY way to go...
Just DELETE, no explaining, move on...
No verbal involvement that could end up setting the tone for people ALWAYS wanting ANSWERS...
while i don't post here a lot, i appreciate what chris has created and more importantly what that creation facilitates.
given the herding cat nature of the above task, i generally don't give too much time to second guessing his (team's) minimal editing methods or prerogative.
but, this mystery disappearance and scrubbing of an entire thread that was from my recollection surprisingly respectful and at least tangentially on topic, is fundamentally different than the usual rendition of a fatty or leb type contributor.
//1) Inspire, educate and humor each other
As I see it this is the whole point of the Forum; what the Forum is on its best days. There are a lot of amazing people here from wildly different backgrounds. It’s great how many different styles of information come forth, from people sharing wild winter ascents in the High Sierra to how to make the ultimate van conversion.
2) Preserve history
A lot of Historical Gold has been posted here from Yosemite, Colorado, Alaska and around the world. I love the fact that a web search for old climbing history often directs the searcher to the SuperTopo Forum. Best of all, many of the people who made that history post here! Some people have asked if this historical stuff is safe here. Answer: Yes. We have been around since 2000 (the Stone Age in climbing Forum time) and are not going anywhere. We have a business model learned from living in Camp 4: even with low income, you can always keep your expenses even lower. (And grab leftover pizza from the Curry Deck when necessary).
3) Have the most open home for discussion on the Internet
For good or bad, SuperTopo is the least moderated, least categorized, least divided up forum out there. One page, simple layout, post em' if ya got em' That is what people love and hate about the Forum, myself included.//
if chris is serious about these, i sure would appreciate an explanation as to what happened to the original thread.
at the end of the day mcnamara doesn't owe me/us anything. but that stance is a double edged sword. without an explanation this incident changes my perception of both the value and substance of what i thought this place was.
i'll continue to visit, but a little joy in mudville will have been lost.
Indeed, that thread was a small bit of US history. Given that a lot of the thread was a discussion by people who are familiar with the Colorado 14'ers, debunking Ryan's apparent claim had credence.
Scrubbing it for whatever reason was unconscionable (in my not so humble opinion).
I haven't read all posts on this thread carefully so maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone postulate that the thread was hacked out of existence by a Romulus/LyinRyan supporter.
Their campaign had a large incentive to scrub anything on the web that called Ryan's veracity into question. Wiping out a James Fallows page would have immediate public condemnation. Who besides Ryan would give a tinker's damn about what's said in this two bit gin joint?
Ooooh CockEye you stopped ass raping yourself with an oversized oosik long enough to crawl out from behind the woodwork and spew santorum again. You are a cowardly anonymous trollboi. Your parents must be so proud.
philo,
you are one lucky faggot that i remain anonymous on here.....nothing a good bitch slap wont fix for you though...
I think the GOP is grooming Ryan for the presidency, and the high power moneyed interests that fuel their machine really like the message he sends.
A story like the disappearance of this thread might seem petty and unworthy of much concern to many, but if his claims of mountain mastery were proven to be imaginary, I believe it could ruin his career, or certainly his chances for the presidency. It would be a story he could never live down.
The kind of corruption, lust for power and money that is at play here might make the disappearance of such a credible discussion as the one on ST a high priority.
Chris' silence on the matter does raise suspicions about his involvement in, or at least knowledge of what happened. Seems he could offer some kind of explanation.
Rick was really onto something, I think. It would seem somebody would have the skills to trace what happened, and who made it happen. The answers to those questions might be far more intriguing than the original thread was.
Online forum owners and individuals who post messages can be held liable for invasion of privacy or for making defamatory statements, which are damaging, false statements of fact.
Chances of plaintiffs winning such lawsuits are not high. Many lawsuits are thrown out of court or settled before trial, but not before causing major problems for the accused. Chris could go bankrupt just defending such litigation ...regardless of its merit.
Chris allows us a great deal of latitude on Supertopo Forum...and questioning Mr Ryan's claims is not unreasonable.
But the profusion of derision and glut of hate filled posts that came with disputing Ryan's assertions, here, could be used to manifest allegations of defamation and libel.
Chris HAS to be discerning in how far he permits maligning and derision of individuals...especially public figures.
Maybe someone should ask why the reconstructed thread which contains a significant share of the original has not been deleted.
On another topic MittRomney, no exercise slouch himself, was in Del Mar today watching movies and eating pizza. Nobody seemed to care whether he and Ann ran up from La Jolla or arrived on horseback.
Another angle on this. The original threads gained some attention on your national stage. That in turn might have attracted all sorts of political trolls to SuperTopo. Not just amateurs, like most of us, but the professionals. Not only further diluting what the forum is about, but creating a management problem. Perhaps Chris simply didn't want to have to deal with that, and took pre-emptive action.
A story like the disappearance of this thread might seem petty and unworthy of much concern to many, but if his claims of mountain mastery were proven to be imaginary, I believe it could ruin his career, or certainly his chances for the presidency. It would be a story he could never live down.
The kind of corruption, lust for power and money that is at play here might make the disappearance of such a credible discussion as the one on ST a high priority.
Chris' silence on the matter does raise suspicions about his involvement in, or at least knowledge of what happened. Seems he could offer some kind of explanation.
Rick was really onto something, I think. It would seem somebody would have the skills to trace what happened, and who made it happen. The answers to those questions might be far more intriguing than the original thread was.
Not the way I see it. Ryan's lying about his marathon time was unconverted--and it was still a small story that quickly blew over. Ryan's 14er hiking can never really be proved or disproved, and his handlers came up with explanations of Ryan's statements that were probably BS at some level, but were plausible enough to ensure this obscure topic stayed obscure. I have hiked all Colo. 14ers (except Culebra) and ran (jogged) a sub-4 hour marathon, and not even I really care that much about Ryan's d-baggery. It's a real stretch to think that average Joe is going to care about this, especially in 4 years.
Anyone who thinks that getting caught being a BS-artist and teller of whoppers is fatal to a political career should spend a few minutes googling the career of our illustrious current VP.
I took Werner’s advice and called Chris. We didn’t speak directly, but exchanged voice mails. He said he did not know why the thread was deleted. Apparently he wasn’t even aware of the issue!
So, apologies to Chris for saying that his silence indicated arrogance on his part. Apparently, he has better things to do (climbing?) than follow the discussions on his forum.
Still, there remains the mystery of who deleted the thread and why. I hope Chris can clarify how it came about.
inspired by Gene
Let us know!