Paul Ryan Fourteeners Thread Deleted! Why?

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Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 9, 2012 - 12:01am PT
Non Sequitar
Non Sequitar
Credit: Fritz
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Nov 9, 2012 - 10:10am PT
OK Fritz, I will behave now. I was just trying to get banned.

Banning is better than unexplained censorship.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Nov 9, 2012 - 10:18am PT
Well, I hope you're all happy. All this talk of what a lying bitch Ryan was focused attention on the facts and cost him and Romney the election. Proceed to 4 more years of hope and change round 2. Ding ding ding.



This poster, for example, is already fading....time to move on and get the topic back where it belongs. Sarah Palin. ...not.

Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
The remaining issue is why Chris McNamara, the owner of Supertopo, saw fit to delete the thread in the weeks before the election. It is likely that the deleted thread brought more attention to Supertopo outside of the climbing community than any other thread in its history. A thread that might have been viewed for years to come, especially if Ryan runs for President in four years, is now gone. So it is very curious as to why this happened. Since Chris has chosen not to explain himself, we can only speculate.

There are a couple possibilities that have been suggested:

1) He was threatened by GOP operatives . If Chris caved to this pressure, he was not getting good legal advice. The First Amendment would certainly protect him against any liability arising from a Ryan supporter's lawsuit, there would be hordes of volunteer climbing lawyers lined up to defend him pro bono if that happened, and public exposure of the litigation threat would certainly make them back down. Has anyone ever heard of any candidate for national office bringing such a suit? It just doesn't happen. So, I have ruled this out.

2 )He received a financial incentive to delete the thread from some republican funding source. That is too mercenary for me to believe. I have ruled this out too.

3) A poster to the thread was offended by a personal remark in it and asked it to be deleted. This is more likely since a libel suit by a non-public figure can be a real threat to a forum like this. This seems the most likely explanation to me, but I don't remember anything particularly scandalous said about anyone on that thread. Sure, there were the occasional "inanely combative" comments, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Chris can do what he wants with his site and can delete any thread. But Supertopo promotes it's discussion forum as a "community." It certainly detracts from any sense of "community" when a unique political/climbing thread disappears and no explanation is offered.

It also displays a disturbing arrogance by the owner of this site to simply ignore this subject. I have written Chris privately, and asked him publicly for an explanation. But nothing.

The way this has been handled by ST is surprising and just not "good blokery", as a Brit might put it.
WBraun

climber
Nov 17, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
Rick

Most likely Chris does not want any unnecessary trouble coming his way pertaining to your problem.

It can take a life of it's own no matter what the reasons were as we see all time here when threads spiral out of control by the zealots.

It will become a big side show hassle for him. (ie pain in the ass).

This whole site is his life source and he will protect it from any unnecessary trouble without having to give his reasons.

His primary focus is on the Climbing world and seriously would like to avoid most all political trespasses.

Best wishes, Werner
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Nov 17, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
Ricky, I agree completely with you just above and the fact there hasn't been an explanation for the thread's disappearance should be disturbing to everyone here.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Nov 17, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
But Supertopo promotes it's discussion forum as a "community." It certainly detracts from any sense of "community" when a unique political/climbing thread disappears and no explanation is offered.

I can't remember Supertopo.com actively promoting the discussion forum as a community. My perception of the forum is that it's always been the red-headed stepchild in that it's there, you can use it, but the site owners don't care all that much about it in any capacity except as a magnet to drive people to supertopo.com for possible increased product sales.
jstan

climber
Nov 17, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
Someone once said a candidate for the Supreme Court should be approved because

"Average people should have representation on the court."

Good to see Sarah Palin is still on our minds. Despite the best efforts of many over the past 200 years, her demographic has yet to live at 1600 Pa Ave. Mitt was a good shot but somehow we were denied yet again.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Nov 17, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
WHY?
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
Stzzo-Check the top of the page:

Climber's Forum

General questions, discussion, community — join the conversation!

Werner-I can certainly understand a small business owner wishing to avoid even the remote possibility of financial trouble over a thread. What I cannot understand is taking this unusual action and then refusing to discuss why it occurred. If he just said what you said, privately, or publicly, I'd probably shut up.

Well, at least for a while until Ryan runs for president in a few years.

Best to you too, Werner.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 17, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
Most likely we don't have a dang clue why that thread disappeared. My experience is that our assumptions are much more often wrong than right

PEace

karl
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Nov 17, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
Stzzo-Check the top of the page:

Climber's Forum

General questions, discussion, community — join the conversation!

Indeed. But the word "promote" still bothers me. Open to interpretation, as is often the case.

To me, the text at the top of the page is more "describing" the forum as a community than "promoting" the forum as a community.

Bottom line is that I just don't see the mission of this forum as any quasi-official institution (or otherwise bearing any obligations) in the climbing world. I see it as a private website where the owners can do whatever they please -- "caveat emptor" (or caveat "poster"), so to speak.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 17, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
Here's another example from google of ST's promotion of the "community" forum:

SuperTopo's climbing discussion forum is the world's most popular community discussion forum for people who actively climb outdoors.

As I said, I understand a website owner wanting to protect his business; no one would begrudge this, even if it is were overcautious. Chris certainly has every right to delete threads at his will.

It's just not a very civil way to treat the "community" he promotes to refuse to discuss the reasons for doing it here. Just looking for some common courtesy, really.

WBraun

climber
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
Rick

Try calling at Phone: (530) 545 0424
locker

Social climber
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
"If he just said what you said, privately, or publicly"...


For all ANY of us know...

it has been discussed in great detail PRIVATELY (or not at all, or just a little bit, or???)...




EDITED:

"It's just not a very civil way to treat the "community" he promotes to refuse to discuss the reasons for doing it here. Just looking for some common courtesy, really."...

Other than that video some time back...

I don't EVER recall a time when any explanation was given for pretty much anything that goes on in here (i.e. Booted without obvious reasons, deleted threads, etc...)...

My GUESS is, it's probably the EASY way to go...

Just DELETE, no explaining, move on...

No verbal involvement that could end up setting the tone for people ALWAYS wanting ANSWERS...

Could be ENDLESS...








zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
OK - I know why the thread was deleted, but I can't tell because I'd have to kill myself.



-Cyanide de Bergerac
jstan

climber
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
Promises promises.
nah000

Mountain climber
canuckadia
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
while i don't post here a lot, i appreciate what chris has created and more importantly what that creation facilitates.

given the herding cat nature of the above task, i generally don't give too much time to second guessing his (team's) minimal editing methods or prerogative.

but, this mystery disappearance and scrubbing of an entire thread that was from my recollection surprisingly respectful and at least tangentially on topic, is fundamentally different than the usual rendition of a fatty or leb type contributor.

more importantly it appears to fly in the face of all three of mcnamara's stated goals for this website.

from the link and mcnamara's keyboard they are:

//1) Inspire, educate and humor each other
As I see it this is the whole point of the Forum; what the Forum is on its best days. There are a lot of amazing people here from wildly different backgrounds. It’s great how many different styles of information come forth, from people sharing wild winter ascents in the High Sierra to how to make the ultimate van conversion.

2) Preserve history
A lot of Historical Gold has been posted here from Yosemite, Colorado, Alaska and around the world. I love the fact that a web search for old climbing history often directs the searcher to the SuperTopo Forum. Best of all, many of the people who made that history post here! Some people have asked if this historical stuff is safe here. Answer: Yes. We have been around since 2000 (the Stone Age in climbing Forum time) and are not going anywhere. We have a business model learned from living in Camp 4: even with low income, you can always keep your expenses even lower. (And grab leftover pizza from the Curry Deck when necessary).

3) Have the most open home for discussion on the Internet
For good or bad, SuperTopo is the least moderated, least categorized, least divided up forum out there. One page, simple layout, post em' if ya got em' That is what people love and hate about the Forum, myself included.//


if chris is serious about these, i sure would appreciate an explanation as to what happened to the original thread.

at the end of the day mcnamara doesn't owe me/us anything. but that stance is a double edged sword. without an explanation this incident changes my perception of both the value and substance of what i thought this place was.

i'll continue to visit, but a little joy in mudville will have been lost.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 17, 2012 - 04:40pm PT


HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Nov 18, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
Indeed, that thread was a small bit of US history. Given that a lot of the thread was a discussion by people who are familiar with the Colorado 14'ers, debunking Ryan's apparent claim had credence.

Scrubbing it for whatever reason was unconscionable (in my not so humble opinion).

I haven't read all posts on this thread carefully so maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone postulate that the thread was hacked out of existence by a Romulus/LyinRyan supporter.
Their campaign had a large incentive to scrub anything on the web that called Ryan's veracity into question. Wiping out a James Fallows page would have immediate public condemnation. Who besides Ryan would give a tinker's damn about what's said in this two bit gin joint?
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