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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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Larry Bell, Contributor, Forbes
Benghazi Stand Down Denials Don't Stand Up To Reason
There are some large disconnects between Obama administration explanations concerning security and response actions taken before, during and after the disastrous terrorist attacks on our Benghazi consulate and accounts, compared with those which continue to emerge from outside sources. Following numerous White House claims now known to be inaccurate and intentionally misleading, we are repeatedly assured that we will get the real scoop in due time after full investigations are complete. One perplexing issue, among many, revolves around conflicting accounts regarding requests and denials of military aid which might have saved American lives.
Further delays only increase wide-spread suspicions that there are no legitimate answers, and that the president’s strategy is to run out the clock until after his final election is over. If this were not the case, it would seem logical that he would seize upon every opportunity to demonstrate evidence of the leadership and transparency he has repeatedly promised. Meanwhile, those who dare to raise those questions and express such suspicions are often subjected by his supporters to scornful reproach. And yes, I speak from experience on this…a subject I will get to later.
Putting serious questions aside regarding why early requests for enhanced consulate security had been repeatedly denied, along with misplaced blame for the attack on an obscure anti-Muslim video, let’s focus exclusively upon controversies surrounding that fateful seven-hour assault period.
During an October 16 interview, Denver’s WUSA-TV reporter Kyle Clark asked President Obama a two-part question: “Were the Americans under attack at the consulate in Benghazi, Libya denied requests for help during that attack, and is it fair to tell Americans that what happened is under investigation until after the election?” Expressing his regret about the casualties and sympathy for their families, plus a determination to bring the perpetrators to justice, the president didn’t answer either question.
After dodging, Clark asked the first and most important part again: “Were they denied requests for help during the attack?” And once again Obama offered a non-answer, saying: “I can tell you as I have said over the last couple of months since this happened, that the minute I found out this was going on, I gave three very clear directives. Number one, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. Number two, we’re going to investigate exactly what happened to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Number three, find out who did this so we can bring them to justice.” He continued, “I guarantee you that everybody in the State Department, our military, CIA, you name it, had number-one priority making sure that people were safe. These are our folks. And we’re going to find out exactly what happened.”
So are we to take it from this that President Obama expressly said that in the very beginning he issued a clear directive instructing that all possible means be employed by his National Security Council to secure our personnel? Such a directive would constitute an “Execute Order”, an official mandate that would carry the inviolate authority of our nation’s commander-in-chief. Where is that document?
The New York Times reported that defense department officials said they did not receive a request for help from the State Department as the attack unfolded. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, who was with President Obama in the Oval Office for a regular meeting when the first attack reports came in, then later said: “There’s a lot of Monday-morning quarterbacking going on here”, adding that “the basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on, without having some real-time information about what’s taking place.”
Yet the administration had already put our people in harm’s way…and did so without providing adequate protection. So if the president had issued a formal order to “employ all possible means to secure our personnel”, then wouldn’t the correct decision be to deploy aid to save them? And in not doing so, didn’t the defense secretary countermand the alleged direct order? On the other hand, it wouldn’t seem very likely for that to occur when his military superior, the president, was right there in the Oval Office with him.
According to a Fox News report by Jennifer Griffin, former Navy Seals Ty Woods and Glen Doherty (who were later killed), were ordered to stand down three times following calls during the attack. The first two times occurred soon after they heard initial shots fired, informed higher-ups at the CIA annex, and requested permission to go to the consulate to help out. However, they ignored those orders and made their way to the consulate, which by that time was on fire. The rescue team then returned to the CIA annex about midnight after evacuating those who remained at the consulate and retrieving the body of Sean Smith. They had not succeeded in locating Ambassador Stevens.
Woods and Doherty called again for military support as they began to take on gunfire at the annex. Again, the request was denied. According to those present at the compound, there were no communications problems at the annex, and the team was in constant radio contact with headquarters. Ty Woods was manning a machine gun on the annex roof at the time. He painted a targeting laser on the enemy mortar that later killed him after calling for support from a Spectre gunship that never arrived.
The fighting at the CIA annex lasted for more than four hours. That provided plenty of time for American aircraft and commandos based at our Sigonella Air base in Italy 480 miles away to intervene.
Two separate Special Operations forces were instructed to stand down. Senior military and intelligence sources informed Fox News that a force specializing in counterterrorism rescues which was already in place at Sigonella could have reached Benghazi within less than two hours. The other team had previously operated in Central Europe, and was being moved to Sigonella.
CIA spokeswoman Jennifer Youngblood denied claims that any requests for support were turned down. She said: “We can say with confidence that the Agency reacted quickly to aid our colleagues during that terrible evening in Benghazi. Moreover, no one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need: claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate.” So if not the CIA…then who did issue the stand down orders?
Larry Womack, writing in the Huffington Post, did a hatchet piece which referred to my earlier October 24 article titled “White House Watched Benghazi Attacked And Didn’t Respond” as a “jumble of lies” and a “rant”. He asserted I had erroneously stated that European military forces that might have rapidly responded did not arrive at Sigonella “until after the attack was over”. However this is directly at odds with reports that at least one counterterrorism force was already in place there ready for immediate deployment.
Womack also challenged my “outlandish claim” that “absurdly” misrepresented drone footage of Benghazi events as “live video” and my assertion “that a series of email alerts received late Tuesday evening provides additional information that was known to Obama administration officials shortly after the attack commenced.”
Well actually…yes! Two surveillance drones had been redirected to Benghazi shortly after the attack began, and were already hovering over the compound. One was sent to relieve the first, perhaps due to fuel issues, and both were capable of sending real-time visuals back to Washington. Any U.S. official or agency with the proper clearance, including the White House Situation Room, State Department, CIA, Pentagon and others could continuously call up that video on their computers.
As for real-time emails, there were lots of them also. According to reports, between 300 and 400 national security figures received these real-time updates throughout the attack. The first one came in about 20 minutes after the fighting began. Another, received just two hours into the raid, advised White House and State Department officials that an Islamic militant group called Ansar al-Sharia had taken credit.
Just to prove that I really can’t be trusted to present accurate information, Mr Womack pointed out that I’m “a climate change denier!” (exclamation emphasis in original). Although I really don’t appreciate the Holocaust implication of that “denier” term, he’s at least correct that I’m a bone fide skeptic on that subject… to the extent this conceivably matters. He also cited a reference to some related statements I have made on that subject which appear in an alarmist blog link. Frankly, I enthusiastically stand by all of them.
Womack concluded his article expressing angry disdain for conservative blogs which he believes callously exploit the Benghazi tragedy for political purposes. Here, he echoes a defense repeatedly voiced by the president. Yet if President Obama is offended that people suspect he hasn’t been forthcoming, there’s a very simple solution. Just provide real evidence to back up his administration’s claims…perhaps starting with that three point order he purportedly issued immediately upon learning of the attack.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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He pulled the plug on those state department agents.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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I want to know and I want to know now, and if I don't hear what I want to know now, I now get to make up what I want to know.
OK, here's what you want to know. Obama watched the Ambassador die from a drone, denied all attempts from patriotic Americans wanting to rush in and save him, then went on a vacation to Las Vegas.
There, will that bring the president down?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) Classification Scheme
Stage 1 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Early symptoms include subtle, low level criticisms of Obama's "leadership" abilities. A simple understanding of separation of powers and what Obama can/can not do is enough to reverse most ailments.
Stage 2 Obama Derangement Syndrome
At this stage, attacks on the President begin to take on a nonsensical element such as criticism of Obama playing Golf, taking a vacation with his family, or eating mustard on his hamburger. The tone used by stage 2 sufferers mimics that of a gossip tabloid or an unhappy teenager's blog.
Stage 3 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As the disease progresses, deeply held anger, resentment, and fear manifests itself. Those afflicted with ODS-3 are unable to call the President by his name. They use incendiary monikers such as Barry, Obummer, Zero. The derangement begins to branch out to Obama's family. Even mentioning Michelle Obama's campaign to encourage healthy lifestyles is enough to cause hysterical fits of rage.
Stage 4 Obama Derangement Syndrome
Opposition to Obama becomes not just predictable, but a force of habit. Those afflicted use phrases like, "Anyone but Obama." The diseased begin to take any position, so long as it is not Obama's position. They begin to mock ideas like "hope" and "change" as naive, simply because Obama embodies them.
Stage 5 Obama Derangement Syndrome
As stage 5 ODS sets in, the assaults on the President's character begin to imply he is evil at his core. The development of conspiracies that suggest Obama is knowingly executing an agenda that will harm America are commonplace. Questions like, "Is Obama A Bigger Threat Than Al Qaeda?" and "Obama: A Radical Leftist Who Seeks To Dismantle Capitalism?" are common place.
Stage 6 Obama Derangement Syndrome
This stage is mostly reserved for birthers and bigots. People who have developed ODS-6 are offended by Barack Obama's very existence. The subtle racial undertones, kept concealed in the previous stages of the disease, can no longer be contained. They find it impossible to believe that a black man could be elected President of "their" country, despite the overwhelming evidence that the President was born in America.
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Perfect, Norton. Don't waste time trying to reason with the afflicted right wingnuts.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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DR. F I believe that you have a reputation for posting false information.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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When your are under attack, don't ask for help from an empty chair.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I have a distinct ground hog day feeling about this......
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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yosemite 5.9
you're shiteshow ethical report
of our president's conduct
is trivial and immature;
you'd be better served
chasin the + at the
end of your dreams.
obama is so gonna crush
your stupid candidate,
despite yours
and all the other coward's
efforts to fool
wise citizens into voting
for ignorance.
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yosemite 5.9
climber
santa cruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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Dr. F, you admitted on another thread to attributing information to the wrong source.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Which of course, means he's wrong about everything else.
And yeah, Cragman, we've got the blood of 4 on our hands, check yours for the blood of 4000 young Americans in Iraq.
Wonder when Rong is going to start dumping into this thread.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Yep, took it right to Iraq. They were responsible for 911 right?
Felt good to get some payback, didn't it Cragman.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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now cragman comes
outta the woodwork
for an easy cheap shot
at a fraction moment
in time that he tries
to magnify into reality and intent.
to that note,
crag you were probably mastrabating
in your family room
while that biker gang
was beatin the shet outta
me at the bar in your small
town.
i see where your priorities are at.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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yeah
everyone knows Bush could have prevented 9/11 simply by ordering all cockpit doors be hardened steel and locked at take off, and he could have done that on "day one"
but the dipshits voted for a total moron and put him in charge
simple
the Israelis have been doing it for decades and have never had an attack
total national security failure while the Repubs had the Senate, House, and Presidency
party of national security, my ass
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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i would respectfully suggest
to mr five none and all of
his limping coherts
to buy a couple cases
of diapers
and a few parcels
of tear tissue
because you've at
least 4 more years
of lament,
shiteing your drawers
and weeping out your growing pains.
get outta the way
of change,
ya false inheritants of resolve.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Should Obama have gone before Congress and asked for a declaration of war on Al Q? Would they have accomdated him?
Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Pearl Harbor Speech December 8 1941
To the Congress of the United States
Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with the government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.
Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleagues delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.
The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. Very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.
Yesterday, the Japanese government also launched an attack against Malaya.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked Guam.
Last night, Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.
Last night, the Japanese attacked Wake Island.
This morning, the Japanese attacked Midway Island.
Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.
As commander in chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.
Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us.
No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.
I believe I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again.
Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.
With confidence in our armed forces - with the unbounding determination of our people - we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us God.
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, Dec. 7, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese empire.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jesus, dumb as stumps and mindless political fodder.
Have any of you clowns been in a conflict, riot, large consulate demonstrations, large-scale emergency, or other chaotic environment? I have - all of the above.
Events unfold which cannot be micro-managed from abroad and the pace of events cannot controlled on the ground, many layers of people are involved, it's hard to tell the players, communication are difficult, context is hard to establish, lines of authority blur, decisionmaking against regualtions and policy objectives becomes difficult, misinterpretation and miscommunication happens, mistakes get made at both end of the line, and in general Murphy takes hold and rules. Add to that a long history of State relying mercs and locals for worldwide protective services and the result is bad sh#t occasionally happens - particularly when the mission involved is a makeshift one in the aftermath of a violent revolution in the third world.
The idea that the President, SecDef, SecState, SecHSC, or Joint Chiefs are capable of, or should be, running groundOps as as an attack unfolds is so patently and blatantly stupid as to really not being worthy of a response.
'Libyagate' is yet another clear case hypocritical indignation on the part of the far right and a clear case of putting its desperate clawing for power way, way out ahead of our national interest.
In short, and given you keep posting up this sort of moronic bullsh#t, more like 5.6...
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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07:27 PM ET From CNN
Intelligence official offers new timeline for Benghazi attack
From Suzanne Kelly
A senior U.S. intelligence official discounted a Fox News report from last Friday that said officials within the CIA chain of command denied repeated requests from its officers on the ground to assist during the attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi, Libya.
The official insisted that the CIA operators on the ground were in charge of their movements and the safety of those who were preparing to respond was also an important consideration.
"There were no orders to anybody to stand down in providing support," the official said.
The official detailed a minute-by-minute account of what the official said occurred September 11.
There was a roughly 25-minute gap between when the officers at a nearby annex received the call for help from the mission to when the officers were able to get on their way to assist. During that time the officers at that annex location were getting their weapons loaded into vehicles, while others were on the phone trying to get local "friendly" militias with heavier weapons to help.
The Fox report also suggested that the officers on the ground asked for military backup but the CIA denied those requests. The official again said this report was wrong. The military, the official said, provided drone surveillance and a tactical security team to assist.
The timeline:
– Around 9:40 p.m.(local time) the annex receives the first call that the mission is under attack.
– Fewer than 25 minutes later, a security team leaves the annex for the mission.
– Over the next 25 minutes, the team members approach the compound, attempt to secure heavy weapons and make their way onto the compound in the face of enemy fire.
– At 11:11 p.m., the requested drone surveillance arrives over the mission compound.
– By 11:30 p.m., all U.S. personnel, except for Ambassador Chris Stevens, who is missing, depart the mission. The exiting vehicles come under fire.
– Over the next roughly 90 minutes, the annex receives sporadic small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenade rounds. The security team returns fire and the attackers disperse at approximately 1 a.m.
– At about the same time, a team of additional security personnel lands at the Benghazi airport and negotiates for transport into town. Upon learning the ambassador is missing and that the situation at the annex has calmed, the team focuses on locating Stevens and tried to obtain information on the security situation at the hospital.
– It is still predawn when the team at the airport finally manages to secure transportation and an armed escort. Having learned that the ambassador was almost certainly dead and that the security situation at the hospital was uncertain, the team heads to the annex to assist with the evacuation.
– They arrive with Libyan support at the annex at 5:15 a.m., just before the mortar rounds begin to hit the annex. Two security officers are killed when they take direct mortar fire as they engage the enemy. That attack lasts only 11 minutes before dissipating.
– Less than an hour later, a heavily-armed Libyan military unit arrives to help evacuate the compound of all U.S. personnel.
One other American was killed in the attack.
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