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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 12:52am PT
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E-nail.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 30, 2012 - 01:08am PT
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Is there a video of someone putting up a bolt ladder?
Major boring, pun intended.
I was going to suggest hero loops, since VM's new to nail-ups, obvious to the most casual, cynical old iron banger.
I posted a picture on the Oakdale show-and-tell thread that PO posted of a RR magic moment.
The hero loop's the ticket, V, as someone mentioned...
It's maybe fifty cents worth of webbing that can save you lots of time on a ladder.
You do any more, without a couple on your rack, you're a silly boy.
My two-loop aid slings (I'm in total agreement with Tom Frost on this, I believe) were alway equipped with sub-aiders and hero loops.
The maxim for bolt ladders is simple, don't slow down. You are in little danger. You can rest at the anchor.
This is the ticket if your pard's dicking around reaching for it.
MOVE IT, ASSWIPE is not subtle enough. You should both master "half-inch heroism," as Millis the Mentor put it.
Don't fail to try fi-fi hooks, either. These make it all worth while for the time they save. LeConte, hallowed though it is, isn't a good place to practice this technique. Just get on a Five and practice.
I can't think of anyplace else in the Valley, though Mickey's Beach might still provide a bolt ladder. Haven't been round there in years. That is, if you find yourself in the city on a weekend, which isn't your style.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 30, 2012 - 01:32am PT
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Thanks for the clarification, Chief.
Middendorf and Bridwell did some hardware testing years ago and put numbers to actual pieces placed, as far as force required to break/pull rivets and bolts of various types and sizes. Not sure if it was ever published online, but I have a copy somewhere. I did some very archaic testing of rivets and bolts in some solid granite around here, with a 10-lb. sledgehammer and a ~3-foot funkness device made of doubled #4 cable. Although not terribly scientific, the results were quite interesting.
I would say that a longer grade 5, 5/16” machine-head rivet that is well-placed will hold any fall thrown at it. A well-placed grade 5, 3/8” machine-head “rivet” might even hold my truck. I found that a bomber 5/16” machine-head withstood more sledgehammer abuse in both tension and sheer before it pulled than did a bomber 1/4” x 1 1/2” button-head with a hanger. If properly placed, a machine-head can be surprisingly strong, especially considering that it’s placed in such a shallow hole. This, of course, is dependent on rock quality.
“I personally say the old stopper cinched over and tight on the screw gig is the best way to go.”
Why?
And in response to this earlier question that never got a reply…
“What's best practice for bailing on a pitch of questionable gear? Hell, even good gear…”
If you aren’t too far above the belay and it’s possible, down-aiding while cleaning might be your best bet. If you are a ways up a pitch, you might be better off building a small anchor to be lowered from (if you are less than half-a-rope-length out) or rap from (if you are past half-rope). In any case, you are going to have to sacrifice some gear to leave – better off finding a spot on the pitch where you can leave heads, or pins, or wired nuts. Bailing from cams could get expensive.
If you build a small anchor consisting of two or three pieces that are placed close together, you can equalize them. This would be much better than just leaving your last two or three placements in hopes that the lower pieces will ‘back-up’ the upper piece, should it fail. Just make sure that the pieces in your anchor are good. If in doubt, add an extra piece to your anchor so that you are sure that it’s solid. No sense in getting hurt while bailing.
However, the best option by far is to have your belayer send you a beer on the tag line and then finish leading the pitch! But don’t forget to have fun too.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2012 - 01:44am PT
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Vitally - just so poor Donini doesn't have a stroke..
I'm game for Pakistan on my next big trip...yayayaya
Let's start with Kings Canyon! LOL
PS: Wish I could understand the discussion Chief, Minerals, mucci, Jeremy etc are having about different sizes of rivets and how drilling some of those is almost as good as a bolt....interesting stuff...
Can you guys explain what is currently acceptable for first ascents on walls? As I understand the less bolts is better, and if you have to drill you better do a lot of hooking and maybe do a few moves on drilled holes with a bat hook before you put in a rivet? People do not do bolt ladders any longer?
Jim, I hope to do more and more peaks in the future. I think it is good for me to learn some basics (at least) about all kinds of climbing to be more or less complete.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 06:45am PT
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This is a great thread!
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whitemeat
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 10:46am PT
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how does the follower clean a "tension traverse" For example pitch 3 of the Nose. But not when its a pendulum and the leader just runs it out till the rope is straight up and down, because then it would not be a problem for example Pitch 6south central on the column.
Please try to include pictures !!!!!!
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whitemeat
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 30, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
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wow thats a very good video grippa, thanks alot !!!!!!!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
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Any thoughts about using a 'Silent Partner' for soloing walls? A lot of people use grigris. What are advantages?
What set up do majority of people who solo walls use?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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Nov 28, 2012 - 05:56pm PT
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I have a silent partner that I have used doing "practice" aiding but haven't used it on a wall yet. It scares the sh#t out of me everytime, but so far it's always caught me.
Different question....
What's the story behind the OLD rivet ladder on the south side of the Columbia boulder in camp 4. It would be fun practice if the things weren't old as sh#t and the first one wasn't hammered flat....
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Nov 28, 2012 - 06:22pm PT
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if you have to drill you better do a lot of hooking and maybe do a few moves on drilled holes with a bat hook before you put in a rivet? People do not do bolt ladders any longer?
Drilled holes on a ladder are BS, nobody on a FA is in that much of a hurry.
If your gonna drill a ladder, you make every attempt to hook naturally btw rivets or bolts, if that does not work out, it's all steel all the way.
Manufacturing difficulty on blank stone is chump.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 28, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
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nobody on a FA is in that much of a hurry.
But our Vitya is headed to the great ranges where time is money, and life.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 28, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
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What's the story behind the OLD rivet ladder on the south side of the Columbia boulder in camp 4.
As it must now be more than 50 years old, it might be considered a historical/archaeological relic, and so not to be touched.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Nov 28, 2012 - 08:39pm PT
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Is that the belay?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 28, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
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Would you prefer it melted in your mouth?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Nov 28, 2012 - 08:57pm PT
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As fare as Silent Partner vs. Gri-gri for soloing goes, well, one was designed and made for soloing, the maker of the other emphatically states that you should not use it for soloing.
I've soloed two El Cap routes with a Gri-gri and one with a Silent Partner. The Silent Partner, is a far better and far safer tool to self belay with than a Gri-gri.
As a tool, the SP is totally single purpose, the Gri-gri is a really good multifaceted tool that I wouldn't go up on a wall without (in fact, ahem, I've taken a spare, so far, every time I've been up El Cap since I dropped my one and only off of Iron Hawk this spring).
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Nov 28, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
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The Silent Partner is versatile too, in the sense you can claim you have a silent partner. Ah yes, I picked up a podner just this year.
(you know, in business)
Sorry dude, slot's been taken, already have all the help I need.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Nov 28, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
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Hey! Don't you be slanderin' Royal about his drilling skills. I'm 6' 2" and I've done his proud ladders on the Prow and Tis-sa-ack. I had to step it up and stretch. He bragged about the Tis-sa-ack effort in the famous article.
So.... Glen Denny was 6' 10"?....or, was it Wayne Merry?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Nov 28, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
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OK. sorry. I'm not done yet!
I climbed Lurking Fear with my wife Margy and she got the bolt ladder on the 2nd/3rd pitch? She is 5' 0". We set her up with a 2' cheater stick and she made that work. So....what's the problem?
Yes I'm late to the thread.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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As a tool, the SP is totally single purpose, the Gri-gri is a really good multifaceted tool that I wouldn't go up on a wall without (in fact, ahem, I've taken a spare, so far, every time I've been up El Cap since I dropped my one and only off of Iron Hawk this spring).
Which tasks would grigri help on the wall with aside from belaying? rapelling to clean can be done on it i guess?
man, i wish there were more videos out there...
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