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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 19, 2011 - 11:06am PT
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In harder offwidths, it quite often the case that sliding pro along with you is not an option and is just an offing theory--- you can't get it done that way. Instead you place and climb and won't be bothered with constantly monkeying around in the business section(s).
As far as I am concerned, Twilight Zone is 5.10d and has always been. I don't care what the offing Yellow Meyers said---it is wrong plenty of instances; subsequent guides nailed it at 5.10d. I think of Generator Crack at 5.10c. And the Klemens pitches are also 5.10d. I know there is a bunching up here in a group of routes that climb quite a bit differently but are graded identically, but that is the way it is. We have this same phenomenon with all other categories of routes for christ's sake. The notion of spreading these four climbs out in distinct letter grades is just silly.
Russter, you need drafting lessons from Weld_it
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Oct 19, 2011 - 11:10am PT
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having done a ton of valley ow and some at granite mt I think the current ratings are correct for all three. And generator is the standard 10c ow imho.
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Scole
Trad climber
San Diego
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Oct 19, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
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I've done all three, pre-cam, and they are all hard enough to keep you busy for a while, and give you something to argue about back in the M.R. I agree with Werner; it's all easy until you whip. They are all easier with a swami, and cams beat the hell out of tube chocks.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2011 - 05:54am PT
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I keep seeing photos looking down the Twilight Zone, with
someone clipped to either a big Friend or some type of
modern tube thing, and I guess I can't help but think
that would take a lot of the fear out of that climb.
I agree, though, that jangling that big flim flam junk
up there could be almost more of a hindrance than a
help. One really does need to focus on the climbing.
I remember a fellow walked by me one day in Eldorado.
He had the biggest rack I'd ever seen, it seemed hundreds
of Friends and things. I asked what he was going to climb,
and he said, "Ruper." (For those who don't know what Ruper
is, it's a classic mostly 5.6, one or two 5.8 moves)... The
climb must have been six grades harder with all that gear.
Donini, you never cease to amaze me. I keep learning, again
and again, how many hard climbs you've done. And the ONLY
time I ever saw you climb, you were hanging from an aid
sling trying to second King's X, in Eldorado. When I strolled
by and saw
that, and it was long before you came into your own,
I just assumed you were another climber... boy was I wrong.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 20, 2011 - 09:26am PT
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Having done it both ways more or less, I'd say it was physically easier and mentally tougher in the old days. I'd think now with valley giants, bros, etc it would be even more work, but less adventuresome.
These days, with few exceptions, a lot of the boldness has been traded off for greater expenditures of brute force, lugging the rack up there. Just another shift in climbing over time.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2011 - 10:18am PT
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I recall that when I did Twilight Zone in 72 or 73 I had to psyche up for it knowing I wouldn't get any pro until about 30 feet up.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 20, 2011 - 10:59am PT
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I remember a fellow walked by me one day in Eldorado.
He had the biggest rack I'd ever seen, it seemed hundreds
of Friends and things. I asked what he was going to climb,
and he said, "Ruper." (For those who don't know what Ruper
is, it's a classic mostly 5.6, one or two 5.8 moves)..
That could have been me for all I know and you're damn right you need a big rack for Ruper. You need some BIG cams for Ruper crack, some tiny cams for the 5.8PLUS crux section on upper Ruper, and everything in between for the long, sustained rest of the climb.
Pat, you may not be fully aware of this, but LOTS of pitons that used to be in Eldo are gone, and lots of the remaining ones are just rusting curiosities and not reliable pro. Combine that with with the often irregular and fragile rock in Eldorado and yeah, you're gonna see some surprisingly big rack on what are (were) to you easy routes.
Glad you get a kick out of it and I'll keep bringing my monster racks up Ruper and whatever else I feel like.
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2011 - 11:17am PT
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My friend call this huge rack of #5 and #6 "rack of death".
The trade off - mental relax vs. harder work. I prefer latest- because I climb better when I am not scared to fall. Sometimes I finish route and couple big pieces still hanging on my sling
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 20, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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I don't know how one could pull himself up the
rock with all that extra weight. I mean, I wasn't
condescending. It was just hard to imagine how
the person could succeed burdened down like that.
I don't question what others need for protection.
That's for them to decide.
When I was a gymnast, if I gained half a pound,
I would lose my routine. I guess I was that close
to the edge. In climbing, it was similar. Weight was
everything. When I was light and young it was so easy
to pull myself up. Then I got some muscle, and hence
more weight, and it was harder, but I kept
improving techniquewise. Most climbs are all
about technique, but (as in bouldering) some are
raw strength. I'd lose a certain boulder problem if I gained
a pound... So I mean, to go up on a route that is
near your upper level and strap ten pounds to you....
It might defeat the purpose. I don't think there's
a place on Ruper that would have taken any of those
big Friends. But I guess one has learn and find out...
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Oct 20, 2011 - 05:07pm PT
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Alexey,
Do you still feel the same way you did about Dream Easy?
You headed up this we?
kev
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Oct 20, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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I don't think I have ever seen a photo of anyone on Steppin' Out.
Anyone have one?
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crøtch
climber
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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Where does Pipeline in Squamish fit into this hierarchy?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 21, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
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Hey Fosburg, if you're still around, did you see that one o them Britts unsighted that hard off width at Momentum? How many ascents has that thing had?
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fosburg
climber
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Oct 21, 2011 - 01:03pm PT
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Not sure Jay. It doesn't seem to be as popular as one would expect given the quality.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Oct 21, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
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Any thoughts comparing these to the "11a" OW pitch on Blind Faith? IE the 3rd pitch. I was heard you go right side in, but I went left side in...
I thought the grade was soft compared to say the "11b" given to the Monster Offwidth on the Salathe.
I'm still not quite sure what makes an offwidth 5.11
Twilight is high on my todo list. Anyone got good photos?!?
 Luke
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 21, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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I dunno, P.O. , With today's light gear even Girls are managing those racks
And that's, the more streamlined rack, without bigbros or Valley giants...
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 09:22pm PT
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Check out the VHS tapes in the background. Any reels and movie projectors too?
;)
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Oct 21, 2011 - 11:07pm PT
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That's just bitchin'!
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