Twilight Zone vs. Steppin' Out

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Messages 1 - 90 of total 90 in this topic
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2011 - 10:10pm PT
It is interesting to know opinion of those who climbed both routes and still remember them. Which is harder? Which is better?

Four years ago during same week I top roped both of those routes. I was doing OK on Steppin' Out and almost peel off from TZ.
At the time- I felt that TZ at least two letters grade harder. I was struggling so intensively to stay in crack - that I have no memories about the route.
Since than I led Steppin' Out several times without big problems, but still far from pure enjoinment . And I never returned to TZ.

Both routes rated in Reid book 10d** , both routes continuing OW about 100 ft long [ I talk about second crux pitch of TZ and ruling out first and third pitches]
TZ is overhanging OW in corner - narrowing to the top.
Steppin' Out is leaning offset splitter also overhanging with about same width all the way which changed from 5 to 6 inches

TZ has as I remember about 20 feet ow section where knee not fit in
Steppin' Out has tree short sections where knee not fit in, but those sections bypassed by short moves.

TZ has no good rests as I remember ???
Steppin' Out has two spots where you can fully restore your body.

It is time for me to finish road to Twilight Zone , but I still have some fear left to this route.
It TZ really two letters grade harder than Steppin' Out?
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 17, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
Steppin Out is easier than TZ.

TZ is more demanding than Steppin Out

TZ is harder than Cream

Cream is harder than Steppin Out

Cream and Steppin Out are more secure than TZ
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 17, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
Tz is the real govno. Stepping out got rated the same cause dr E. Md. Didn't flash it. The rating stayed because in the ensuing decades nobody but you, me, Russ, Walt, and Scuffy ever climbed it..... Maybe.......
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 17, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
As a side note Alexey.... Why the fuk are you asking this over here and not at WideFetish.com? For a full spraydown, try it over there. I can guarantee a more animated and complete answer, at least from me.
WBraun

climber
Oct 17, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
I free soloed all three of em

The Zone, Steppin' Out, and Cream.

They're all the same when do em that way ....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 17, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
The Generator Crack is harder than all three. Cream is only hard getting from fist to offwidth, then it's just chugging; TZ is a grovel but if you're rell good with T-boning with your feet, it makes a HUGE difference; they should never have put that bolt in Steppin' Out. Never soloed any of them, but BITD, the Zone was basically a solo.

JL
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
Russ, thank you for invite for widefetish.com. But why bother with registration if all two climbers from there who climbed both routes- you and Jaybro already chime in on this ST tread.
BTW, knowing that you normally incline to sandbag routes- and not TZ - and remember your story how metal plate of your jeans hold you from whipper on TZ- make my fear to be reasonable.

Jaybro, not sure that you precisely used russian word "govno"- which have only one meaning - sh#t..
and who is "dr E. Md."?

Edit:
Jaybro, now reading your widefetish tread I see you used Russian presisely, but it is not clear to me why you dislike TZ?
http://widefetish.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=709.msg7344;topicseen#msg7344
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 17, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
The beauty is in the depth of the response. Here, a few quips and some comparisons, over there you might get a Skype interview of animated wide guys on liquor, a quicktime movie of the difference, and if available, pics and anecdotes.

SuperTaco is more like talking in line at the supermarket for me, where at WF you might get a vacation offer, a full spraydown, and maybe an invite to a WideFest.

Edit: as to the sandbagging.... Largo up there with the Generator Crack tale is really pulling your leg.
Generator crack = industry standard for 10b
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 18, 2011 - 12:02am PT
Pilgrims, Generator Crack is not harder than Twilight Zone, especially when considered as leads. I used to unrope Generator all the time. Largo is exaggerating.

And I agree with Russ' assessment of Cream, Twilight Zone and Stepping Out. I would also point out that the Zone is also the best route of the three.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Oct 18, 2011 - 12:17am PT
Well I'm glad that's clear.....blondes, even dyed ones, need these things well defined or are we well defined and we need them clarified....or is that a certain type of butter for cooking Mojo de Ajo. Guess the twilight of the zone made my brain slip while steppin' out to embrace the fun of .....ST :DD
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 18, 2011 - 12:56am PT
It looks like the ratings should be changed to something like:
5.10c Steppin' Out
5.10d Cream
5.11a Twilight Zone

?

Alexey: who is "dr E. Md."?

Dr. Andy Embick?
(I know he tried Steppin' Out)
Captain...or Skully

climber
Where are you bound?
Oct 18, 2011 - 12:57am PT
Well, there are those that invite the discussion of various WYDE things, but I agree with Russ, it goes in its venue, in order to thoroughly deal with the subject matter at hand.
Twilight Zone is Hard.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 01:07am PT
I have more to add, but i'm taking it to the fetish

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1639961&tn=0#msg1640124
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 01:12am PT
It looks like the ratings should be changed to something like:
5.10c Steppin' Out
5.10d Cream
5.11a Twilight Zone

Fatal flaw is TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c (yellow Meyers)
So, Steppin Out should be like 5.10b
and Cream should be 5.10+ (10a if your knee fits early, or 10d if your pants roll up on you)

Everyone knows the hardest OW's are always rated 10c. Who uprated the TZ anyway?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 01:30am PT
I thought Cream was harder than T-Zone.
WBraun

climber
Oct 18, 2011 - 01:33am PT
They're all rated 5.7

They're all kinda run out.

They all need lots of bolts to be made safe for this new 21st century.

The dark ages are now over.

The bolt will guide us to the safe zone.

Homeland security approved for the new world order.

Control!

Run out guys will all be collared in and put on leash ....
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 18, 2011 - 02:10am PT
Russ,

> Fatal flaw is TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c (yellow Meyers)

I think you meant 5.10d (TZ is 5.10d in yellow Meyers).
And it was 5.10D in Bridwell's "Brave New World" article in 1973.
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/brave.htm
So was Steppin' Out.

And, yeah, it would be jarring to bump TZ into 5.11 after all these years.
So this suggests:

5.10b Steppin' Out
5.10c Cream
5.10d Twilight Zone

Now the only thing that might be a shock is downrating Cream by "2 letter grades".
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Oct 18, 2011 - 02:21am PT
Alexey, I though TZ was easier than Steppin Out. On TZ I was able to stack my feet and get a good rest almost anywhere. Stepping Out I only got a couple rests when I was able to "step out" on some good face holds. I also miss judged the size of the crack and didn't bring a #5. I was glad that crap bolt was there as I didn't get pro until near the top.

Then again, I think the Vendetta is more like 5.9+.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 02:23am PT
"Placing gear is just a bother," -Dingus McGee.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 18, 2011 - 02:45am PT
I too was going to say I don't think Generator Crack is as hard
as Twilight Zone. In part it has to do with body size. Largo
is a pretty sturdy fellow, and it might be later that he gets
his chest into Generator, whereas I can slip in after a couple of offwidth
moves. I never had much trouble with Generator Crack. Body size,
though, can greatly affect a person's experience. I did an off-width
near Boulder that is harder than any off-width I've done in the
Valley, a little thing up an overhang and called "the Umph Slot."
Pratt actually made the first free ascent on an early trip
to Boulder. His wide shoulders but also
thin chest was key in some of these cracks, not to mention his
artistry and technique, but he could fit inside Umph Slot all the way,
though very tightly. He rated it 5.9. Back then 5.9, rated by
Pratt, was a serious deal. I took a little student of mine up the
Umph Slot, Jeff Schwenn, and he too could get inside and wriggle
up, no real problem. I am on the outside through the most
overhanging part, because my chest doesn't fit. It's all of solid
5.11. I've taken a slew of people up it, such as
Pete Cleveland, who could not touch the Umph Slot,
because they have the same thick chest. It's a real beast of a few
moves, if you can't get inside. When I did Sentinel with Pratt,
on the little off-width maybe fifty feet above the Wilson Overhang,
he slipped inside and tunneled up, whereas I had to lead that
section as an off-width, on the outside. The grade is much harder
if you can't fit in that little stretch. The first time I did
Sentinel with Chris Fredericks I was able to do that tunnel up
through like Pratt. But between then and when I did it with Chuck,
I got thicker, was doing gymnastics, and such. Each of us has some
different shape and size, and some climbs will be
easier and some harder, depending on those differences. Ultimately,
of course, it's more about having the technique and experience.

Twilight Zone was an amazing accomplishment for 1964, and psychologically
it is 5.11, especially if you did/do it anything close
to Pratt style, such as without sliding up
a big Friend, as you advance.... He was unprotected but such a master
of off-widths he was in control. If Twilight Zone is 5.10d, it's
one of the hardest, for those psychological reasons if nothing else.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 02:57am PT
I onsight free soloed the Umph slot in EBs. When i was a skinny kid.

...No way I'm going back to that one...
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Oct 18, 2011 - 03:07am PT

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Size matters!

I have a hard time with the Generator. Never fallen out, just have a hard time.

I think the start of the Harding Slot on Astroman (5.9 pffft) and Third Stone From the Sun at the Leap (5.10c similar to Harding Slot) are both harder than Twilight Zone.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2011 - 03:29am PT
TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c
and Cream should be 10a if your knee fits early,
I like this stile... it remind something..
Reading this you can persuade yourself - "I climb many Valley 10c's so I should jump on TZ"
or "I have small knee- Cream is no harder than Sacherer"
Or "I climbed many Valley 5.9's - I can jump on Mental Block"
I remember in 2004 being complete noob [ believed everything what ST says] and reading ST tread about Mental Block where Russ and Jaybro compete with each other to downgrade the route. And I was silly to believe all what they wrote ...
Especially Russ statement that Mental block is no harder than 5.9, but very sustain - almost every move.. So I got a bite, went with friend and had the epic fail on p3 of Mental Block.
I was very angry on ST sandbaggers for a while..
The end of this story- 6 years later my wife and I climb Mental block- and everything was smooth this time.
When we rapped down my wife who never read ST said : " This route does not feel as 10c. More like 5.9, but very sustain 5.9" - I was laughing.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 18, 2011 - 03:41am PT
As I said, Jaybro, if you can fit into it, it's little more
than a very safe, fall-proof squeeze chimney, like
the Narrows (but slightly tighter). But try it
on the outside!! It's like tipping the Generator Crack
back to a full-on roof almost...

I'm trying to remember. Did Harding lead the Harding Slot
on Washington Column (Astroman) free? Or did it start as
aid and then go free? He was known for being
pretty tough, but also thin. He fit into some
tight things even Pratt couldn't fit into.
I know people who have done
that Harding pitch on Washingtn Column
who could do Twilight Zone if Rod S. was up
there to drop them a top rope... Doo De Doo Doo,
Doo De Doo Doo...
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Oct 18, 2011 - 03:42am PT
Maybe this will be the year that I can chime in with some experience on the subject. But I seem to think that every year for the last couple of years... no major shutdowns, but no attempts yet either!
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Oct 18, 2011 - 08:27am PT
Yeah Alexey; go spouses.
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Oct 18, 2011 - 08:52am PT
Since OW starts at 5.9 should not the whole grading scale moved down? So Ahab is 5.0, Generator is 5.1, TZ is 5.1+,and paisano is 5.3? If you look at it this way we have a long way to go to get up to 5.14 sport (which still would be only 5.4).
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 10:37am PT
I always knew that wife of yours was a smart woman, Alexey!

exactly my point, Pat, my 19 yr old, 140lb self, floated up places my, 55 yr old 157lb self fears to tread....

and not to let the Cat out of the bag, but, Alexey has the most favorable Fist/knee ratio ever!
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 18, 2011 - 11:33am PT
I was very angry on ST sandbaggers for a while..
The end of this story- 6 years later my wife and I climb Mental block- and everything was smooth this time.
When we rapped down my wife who never read ST said : " This route does not feel as 10c. More like 5.9, but very sustain 5.9" - I was laughing.

Alexey, I would not steer you wrong. MB is 5.9, especially if your wife says so.

Great story!

http://widefetish.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=709.msg7346
scuffy b

climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
Oct 18, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
Twilight Zone is much easier to see.
Steppin Out is less frightening.
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Oct 18, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
Alexey the threads you start on ST are always so damn great.

The story about your wife on rap from Mental Block is hilarious - after six years of murderous anger at Russ and Jaybro for shameless sandbagging, the rage is finally dissipating from you with the send, you're reaching a place of forgiveness, and then your wife casually drops that sustained 5.9 line while rapping. Oh god it's too perfect.
fosburg

climber
Oct 18, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
Wow, I had more trouble with Steppin' Out than Twilight Zone, felt like about a letter grade harder. Guess I'm distinctly in the minority here...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 18, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
It's been awhile but the grades seem equivalent although they are quite different climbs.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Oct 18, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
Did 'em both, circa 1976-1977. Twilight Zone, at least twice. I remember next to nothing about either one outside of very general, visceral impressions. Pretty sure I had just one or two tube chocks (bigger than hexes)for each lead. That's just how it was back then. It was a time in which you just had to believe that you could hold it together and gun for the rests. TZ feels like a prouder achievement of the two.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 18, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
Donini,
Were you able to use modern pro? A big Friend, for example,
or Tube Chocks? Just curious. Quite a few people on this thread
speak rather nonchalantly about Twilight Zone, and I guessit
makes me wonder a little if maybe they had better protection than
the original ascent... When I led that top pitch of Reed's Right,
with Pratt, I had no pro but some piton way down below inside.
It was pretty tough. Then later I returned and, just below the crux,
got in some kind of big piece, and it made a huge difference...
felt quite a bit easier. Mind you, I'm not taking away anything from
anyone's ascent, it's just curious how seemingly "unimpressed" some
seem with these classic tough cracks.... I might simply be mis-reading
the tone...
WBraun

climber
Oct 19, 2011 - 12:04am PT
Patrick -- "I might simply be mis-reading
the tone... "

Yeah ... you are definitely misreading the tone.

We're all just yanking each others chain.

And you are correct, these climbs are serious once you/we set foot on em.

But here on the internet ..... anything goes as you probably have noticed by now.

Cheers ..... :-)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 19, 2011 - 12:09am PT
Okay, I'm clowning with the generator crack comment but the thing about TZ is that it will absolutely destroy you if your technique is shoddy. I remember doing Left Side of Reeds and Ahab before I had any kind of OW technique and both felt desperate. Once I learned how to ratchet the legs and stack the feet I could cruise those routes. Left side of the Slack is another that will ruin you if the technique is not there because it's so freaking water polished. I also remember dong the right side of Absolutely Free (I think) and it had virtually no pro with the old nuts. Not so hard (10B??) but don't rip.

JL
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 19, 2011 - 12:31am PT
Pat,
I did both climbs before modern pro including tube chocks. I remember the first part of TW was run out.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Oct 19, 2011 - 02:07am PT
Modern pro, old pro, whatever. I think it's actually physically harder trying to push gear above your head with the rope in your way the whole time than it is to suck it up and climb above your gear.

Then again, it's mentally harder to not be on a virtual top rope the whole time.

Depends on your head and confidence I guess.

When I did Stepping out, I only had a #6 which fit somewhere in the middle but was the only pro I had besides that rusted bolt. It was overhanging and I felt like I could actually peel out of the thing.

When I did TZ I only had pro for the last 10 or so feet but I felt like there was no way I could pop out of the thing. Slide down yes, but not pop. So I felt mentally Stepping Out was harder which translates to it's physical aspects really quickly.

That being said, for the aspiring hard O.W. aficionado. If you want to maximize efficiency, don't push gear above your head. Place your gear and move along focusing on breathing and the task ahead instead. You'll have a better shot in the end.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Oct 19, 2011 - 02:14am PT
I don't know, placing big gear and forging ahead also can have its drawbacks on occasion. Had a buddy place a Valley Giant and climb above it, at which point he slipped back down in the wide crack and got trapped straddling the Cam. The ensuing thrash was not pretty.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Oct 19, 2011 - 11:03am PT
Sala: I agree about the rope up above, but it is different with a "pusher". Keeps the cluster way down.

Thread here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=787407


Another thread here: http://widefetish.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=37.0
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Oct 19, 2011 - 11:06am PT
In harder offwidths, it quite often the case that sliding pro along with you is not an option and is just an offing theory--- you can't get it done that way. Instead you place and climb and won't be bothered with constantly monkeying around in the business section(s).

As far as I am concerned, Twilight Zone is 5.10d and has always been. I don't care what the offing Yellow Meyers said---it is wrong plenty of instances; subsequent guides nailed it at 5.10d. I think of Generator Crack at 5.10c. And the Klemens pitches are also 5.10d. I know there is a bunching up here in a group of routes that climb quite a bit differently but are graded identically, but that is the way it is. We have this same phenomenon with all other categories of routes for christ's sake. The notion of spreading these four climbs out in distinct letter grades is just silly.

Russter, you need drafting lessons from Weld_it
martygarrison

Trad climber
Washington DC
Oct 19, 2011 - 11:10am PT
having done a ton of valley ow and some at granite mt I think the current ratings are correct for all three. And generator is the standard 10c ow imho.
Scole

Trad climber
San Diego
Oct 19, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
I've done all three, pre-cam, and they are all hard enough to keep you busy for a while, and give you something to argue about back in the M.R. I agree with Werner; it's all easy until you whip. They are all easier with a swami, and cams beat the hell out of tube chocks.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 20, 2011 - 05:54am PT
I keep seeing photos looking down the Twilight Zone, with
someone clipped to either a big Friend or some type of
modern tube thing, and I guess I can't help but think
that would take a lot of the fear out of that climb.
I agree, though, that jangling that big flim flam junk
up there could be almost more of a hindrance than a
help. One really does need to focus on the climbing.

I remember a fellow walked by me one day in Eldorado.
He had the biggest rack I'd ever seen, it seemed hundreds
of Friends and things. I asked what he was going to climb,
and he said, "Ruper." (For those who don't know what Ruper
is, it's a classic mostly 5.6, one or two 5.8 moves)... The
climb must have been six grades harder with all that gear.

Donini, you never cease to amaze me. I keep learning, again
and again, how many hard climbs you've done. And the ONLY
time I ever saw you climb, you were hanging from an aid
sling trying to second King's X, in Eldorado. When I strolled
by and saw
that, and it was long before you came into your own,
I just assumed you were another climber... boy was I wrong.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 20, 2011 - 09:26am PT
Having done it both ways more or less, I'd say it was physically easier and mentally tougher in the old days. I'd think now with valley giants, bros, etc it would be even more work, but less adventuresome.

These days, with few exceptions, a lot of the boldness has been traded off for greater expenditures of brute force, lugging the rack up there. Just another shift in climbing over time.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 20, 2011 - 10:18am PT
I recall that when I did Twilight Zone in 72 or 73 I had to psyche up for it knowing I wouldn't get any pro until about 30 feet up.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 20, 2011 - 10:59am PT
I remember a fellow walked by me one day in Eldorado.
He had the biggest rack I'd ever seen, it seemed hundreds
of Friends and things. I asked what he was going to climb,
and he said, "Ruper." (For those who don't know what Ruper
is, it's a classic mostly 5.6, one or two 5.8 moves)..

That could have been me for all I know and you're damn right you need a big rack for Ruper. You need some BIG cams for Ruper crack, some tiny cams for the 5.8PLUS crux section on upper Ruper, and everything in between for the long, sustained rest of the climb.

Pat, you may not be fully aware of this, but LOTS of pitons that used to be in Eldo are gone, and lots of the remaining ones are just rusting curiosities and not reliable pro. Combine that with with the often irregular and fragile rock in Eldorado and yeah, you're gonna see some surprisingly big rack on what are (were) to you easy routes.
Glad you get a kick out of it and I'll keep bringing my monster racks up Ruper and whatever else I feel like.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2011 - 11:17am PT
My friend call this huge rack of #5 and #6 "rack of death".
The trade off - mental relax vs. harder work. I prefer latest- because I climb better when I am not scared to fall. Sometimes I finish route and couple big pieces still hanging on my sling
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 20, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
I don't know how one could pull himself up the
rock with all that extra weight. I mean, I wasn't
condescending. It was just hard to imagine how
the person could succeed burdened down like that.
I don't question what others need for protection.
That's for them to decide.

When I was a gymnast, if I gained half a pound,
I would lose my routine. I guess I was that close
to the edge. In climbing, it was similar. Weight was
everything. When I was light and young it was so easy
to pull myself up. Then I got some muscle, and hence
more weight, and it was harder, but I kept
improving techniquewise. Most climbs are all
about technique, but (as in bouldering) some are
raw strength. I'd lose a certain boulder problem if I gained
a pound... So I mean, to go up on a route that is
near your upper level and strap ten pounds to you....
It might defeat the purpose. I don't think there's
a place on Ruper that would have taken any of those
big Friends. But I guess one has learn and find out...


kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Oct 20, 2011 - 05:07pm PT
Alexey,

Do you still feel the same way you did about Dream Easy?

You headed up this we?

kev
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Oct 20, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
I don't think I have ever seen a photo of anyone on Steppin' Out.

Anyone have one?
crøtch

climber
Oct 21, 2011 - 11:33am PT
Where does Pipeline in Squamish fit into this hierarchy?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 21, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
Hey Fosburg, if you're still around, did you see that one o them Britts unsighted that hard off width at Momentum? How many ascents has that thing had?
fosburg

climber
Oct 21, 2011 - 01:03pm PT
Not sure Jay. It doesn't seem to be as popular as one would expect given the quality.
cultureshock

Trad climber
Mountain View
Oct 21, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
Any thoughts comparing these to the "11a" OW pitch on Blind Faith? IE the 3rd pitch. I was heard you go right side in, but I went left side in...

I thought the grade was soft compared to say the "11b" given to the Monster Offwidth on the Salathe.

I'm still not quite sure what makes an offwidth 5.11

Twilight is high on my todo list. Anyone got good photos?!?

 Luke
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 21, 2011 - 03:57pm PT
Twilight Zone photos (use google image search [site:supertopo.com "Twilight Zone"] )

by Chris Falkenstein
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=129073&tn=60

by George Meyers
(the version that was supposed to be in Yosemite Climber, but was lost)
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/787477/Yosemite-Climber-And-George-Meyers-Appreciation-Thread

by "yosemite watch dog"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53206979@N00/76404288/
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=129073&tn=20

[]
by Jonathon Clearwater
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jclearwater/6257017426/

[]
by Jonathon Clearwater
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jclearwater/6257018026/
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 21, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
I dunno, P.O. , With today's light gear even Girls are managing those racks



And that's, the more streamlined rack, without bigbros or Valley giants...
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Oct 21, 2011 - 09:22pm PT
Check out the VHS tapes in the background. Any reels and movie projectors too?

;)
Chief

climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
Oct 21, 2011 - 11:07pm PT
That's just bitchin'!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 21, 2011 - 11:08pm PT
look at those clams.


i mean cams.

who here has been to checklosolvokia?

are they phony over there?

roscoe mitchell?


Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Oct 22, 2011 - 12:21am PT
That looks like the rack that guy had who was going
up to climb Ruper...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 22, 2011 - 12:48am PT
About how I pictured it from your description...
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Oct 22, 2011 - 12:56am PT
Jay,That pic with that "sick" amount of wide fetish gear is nauseating, and I like the occasional OW, it keeps you honest. How does 10.96 compare to TZ and others mentioned here. I've looked at and yearned over both routes for decades but my partners were always a little smarter and declined the "interesting" experience.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 22, 2011 - 01:11am PT
twilight zone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP05iSzpz94

steppin out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9AxQ5h-oVU

you be the judge

if you click on both, they will play at the same time.
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Oct 22, 2011 - 01:16am PT
You have to love the picture of Eric and the gibson les paul with the "Bixby", being a renown strat fan. It's kinda like Jimmy Pages recording with a Tele for so many of his early hits and his name is almost Synonymous with the Les Paul.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 22, 2011 - 01:23am PT
Apparently the diamond cartel wasn't quite right. Diamonds aren't always a girl's best friend, it seems.
tinker b

climber
the commonwealth
Oct 22, 2011 - 01:43am PT
hmm they do seem to be all black diamond...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 21, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
Wyde wednesday style bump
dogtown

Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:16am PT
I never had a chance to give TZ a go. Still on the to do list.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 22, 2011 - 11:31am PT
skating on stilts
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
When I started this tread almost year ago, I was thinking this should stimulate me to finally climb TZ and push away my fear. Thanks everyone who chime on this tread.
This weekend I felt it is the time to do it.
We were driving with wife from Mariposa on Suturday late afternoon to Cookie and I was so tense and shaky - same feeling as 30 years ago when you going for college exams and not fully prepared.
To make thing worse - on approach 5.9 pitch1 of TZ I went little bit off route , pull on arete- and big chunk of rock peal off with me. - I fell about 12 feet and piece of rock with size of the half gallon bottle missed my wife few inches. When we get to the base of crux pitch- after close call with fallen rock- my wife was not sure she want to go for crux pitch, but I was grateful that she was climb first pitch and wiling to belay me on the crux pitch.

The bottom of p2 is the only place you can clearly see the route.
It did not look so grim as I imagined . I calm down and huge rack on my right side also help to relax.
I can afford big rack - since last year I get rid of 15 pounds of fat which is equal weight [or even more] of double rack of big Cams #4, #5 and #6. So leading now it would be like top roping year ago with some rope tension.
I send crux pitch in 20 minutes . I reached top of the climb which is flat dirt - lean down and shouted to wife "this thing is easier than Steppin'Out - you should go !"

Later on I would say - they about equal in difficulties and fairly rated 10d
I did not find places on TZ where I can stay forever and fully rest as I did on Steppin'Out.
But Steppin'Out individual moves at crux felt harder.
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Jul 30, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
Alexey, it always makes me happy to read your reports. OK, now you can shave your head, get a "badass" tattoo on your scalp, and regrow hair if required for general employment. Good job!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 30, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
I don't think his employer will mind unless he does a windows tattoo, or something.

Mark, just saw your questions. 1096 is totally dissimilar from either of these climbs, Bombay Squeeze chimney to lieback.
tarek

climber
berkeley
Jul 30, 2012 - 09:21pm PT
great thread.
tarallo

Trad climber
italy
Jul 31, 2012 - 01:41am PT
i love ow,on tz i found a very good rest i sent it in two laps
i also climbed 1096 and generetor (onsight)and found them easier than tz,next time step. out and cream ...is it hard to find cream?
my dream would be monster ow
ciao a tutti
Stephen McCabe

Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
Jul 31, 2012 - 04:07am PT
Typo in Jay's description of 10.96 Squeeze chimney to a lieback. But you all knew that.
martygarrison

Trad climber
Washington DC
Jul 31, 2012 - 09:18am PT
Great pics and thread. I climbed SO which I found reasonable but never did TZ. Another one that just didn't get done.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 5, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
bump
Willoughby

Social climber
Truckee, CA
Feb 20, 2014 - 02:09am PT
Hey Studly, I want to hear more about this - BUMP!!

Had a buddy place a Valley Giant and climb above it, at which point he slipped back down in the wide crack and got trapped straddling the Cam. The ensuing thrash was not pretty.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Feb 20, 2014 - 02:41am PT
Oh rad, thanks for the bumpage, this one is new to me.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
We did wyde weekend trying to make all "Bid 4" and try to sort them out in difficulty and quality with fresh memory.
Saturday: morning shade Twilight Zone, afternoon shade Steppin'out
Sunday: afternoon shade Cream ( warm up Energy crisis in morning shade) and really drag myself and Michal to Generator. After we climbed them we both had consensus about relative difficulty and quality
Generator- nothing can compete with approach and TR set up
TZ - easiest among the 3, but still looking most intimidating. Crux where 7" arm bar.
Steppin'out- hardest among the 3, and has at least two 8-10 feet hard sections, but you do them after good rests. In term of climbing is most interesting and rewarding. But- shitty approach pitches and angry ants at belay.
Cream- most aesthetic line, deceptively friendly looking. Crux is very short, hard and technical transition from 3.5" to 5", but it just one move wonder. But above it 100 feet of sustain burly climbing. Difficult approach.

Get a lot of dopamine into brain on Monday morning
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 14, 2014 - 03:20pm PT
That picture of Ed climbing TZ in shorts gives me the willies. He must have ground the sh#t out of his knee. It's all body tension in that one.

JL
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 14, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
Get a lot of dopamine into brain on Monday morning

Alexey, one of the best TR's ever! Just because it brings in the thought of doing all this in a weekend. Cheers to ya!

Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2014 - 05:16pm PT
K-man, I have better plan, which I can not chew myself but can pass it to you. All well known high quality Yosemite 10+OW** in one weekend in the shade:
All in the shade:
Day1 : a) TZ- morning shade; b)Plumb Line- in shade after 11:30 ;c) Cream- in shade after 1pm
Day2: a)MentalBlock -morning/afternoon shade ; 1096- late afternoon shade; Stepping out - shade after 2 pm
David Wilson

climber
CA
Apr 14, 2014 - 06:12pm PT
Way to go Alexey ! We did that left side of independence pinnacle a few weeks ago - that's a nice wide section on the second pitch. Left side of the Slack and Ahab need to get into the master list as well as Mental block.......maybe a really big weekend for you !
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
yes David, Memorial day 3 day weekend with Ahab , Slack Left and Vendetta on Monday if I can get out of the tent
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 14, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
This thread is all kinds of awesome.

Edit: Ahab was fun!
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2015 - 11:33am PT
noble goal to climb both Doom&Despair in a day.
Now it more doable since they become "convenience" rappel climbs.
So far -far from that goal - we did in two day weekend 1.5 of those 2 routes only
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 21, 2015 - 11:43am PT
Didn't see this the first time. Did them both bitd sans cams. Thought Stepping Out was more fun but remember a big run out off the deck on TZ.
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