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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Nov 20, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
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mtnyoung, yes
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
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Syria fighters may be fueled by amphetamines
Hmmm ... amphetamine psychosis ... sounds familiar.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 20, 2015 - 06:53pm PT
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Appears there is an epidemic of complete bullshetting within the Obama Administration.
Here is John Kerry precisely two hours prior to Al Qaeda's horrific Attack in Mali, today...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
WTF??????? This has to be a complete joke, seriously!
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
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C'mon The, he said the top leadership, not the entire organization.
It's a very tricky problem. Cutting off the head doesn't destroy the tentacles.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
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And NOT one Syrian Refugee could possibly be one of them 'tentacles" could they now, Brown!
Top leadership was neutralized? Who the fk planned this evolution. Some punkass kids that had nothing better to do than to attack a high stake Hotel in a well known tourist area?
Got it.
Amazing how you loons got an answer/excuse for the total ineptness that is going on in this administration and continue to finger point at Bush.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:19pm PT
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True, one could be a tentacle. Much more likely the terrorist would come in on a visa waiver though.
In the immortal words of Roberto Duran.
No mas
But 12,000 vs 19 million
Take that to Las Vegas with the rest of the mentally deranged speed freaks.
punkass kids - speed freaks
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
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The...Run for office...I think people would vote for you..rj
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
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OK, but does war work?
That's a hellava big question Phil.
My short answer is that yes, sometimes war works (sometimes it solves problems).
I think that war worked in solving the problems of Japanese and German militarism (compare both peoples before 1945 and after 1945). I think war resolved these twin problems in a long-term way.
War preserved the independence of what is now South Korea, allowing that country to become (eventually) fairly free and very prosperous.
War gained our country its independence against another country that had forfeited the right to rule us (and, of course we later became the best of friends).
War worked to resolve the differences between the northern and southern parts of our country; and it put a stop here to human slavery based on race.
When war "works," it works best in situations that are fairly black and white (like the above). But I also think that such black and white events are rare in history.
War sometimes solves problems that are less black and white.
War worked in a way in ending Europe's religious disputes (over hundreds of years, and many wars Europeans mostly worked themselves past caring about who believed in what God; they became more tolerant).
War succeeded in freeing Kuwait, a sovereign nation that had been illegally invaded by another country (but the arguments about that war might not be as clean as those about the war in Korea for example).
War "freed" Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) from white minority rule (has Mugabe been worse though?).
Maybe a better question is: "Is war necessary?"
And I can give the same "yes, no and maybe" weasel answer to that.
Many times war isn't necessary.
But sometimes it absolutely is.
I know (for example) that I would choose war before I would let those perverted filth near my daughters. And, given a chance to subjugate my daughters, to turn them into objects for pleasure with no rights at all, I think that ISIL would if it could. No amount of asking and/or reasoning would stop them. They do this, it's what has happened and what is happening. If it came to this I would have to accept their evil intent or fight.
I think that sometimes war is thrust upon us, it is the lesser of two difficult choices.
I think that regarding the subject at hand, we need to understand that Islamic Fundamentalism is such an evil and we will have to decide soon whether it really is enough of a threat to go to war over (real war, not maybe war).
In this way, Islamic Fundamentalism is like crabgrass. They/it isn't going away (no matter how many times we try nicely).
We've got to decide (the West needs to decide) whether we're going to put up with them and their annoyances (and, at least to date their attacks - even the attacks of September 11 - are only annoyances in that they have never threatened the existence of our country).
If we're not going to put up with them then we need to decide to defeat them, period. No more "dabbling."
Defeating them is impossible unless we understand that they won't fight "man to man." We'll never defeat them unless we take the fight to them under rules of engagement that understand that "innocent" civilians will die, and that that's just tough sh#t (innocent civilians are after all dying already, it's just not us killing them).
We did this, as just one example, in France in WWII - the Allies killed many, many French civilians (usually by bombardment) while liberating France (and they were our allies). It was, at that time, considered a "cost" of doing such nasty business. And it worked.
But the Germans were a mortal threat to us then. Islamic Fundamentalists aren't now.
That could change in a heartbeat though (and if it changes - if they become an actual, mortal threat - then watch how fast changes occur to the rules of engagement).
Long answer, sorry. You got me thinking "out loud."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
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Long answer, sorry
You should be. At least RJ knows how to keep it short and sweet, right, honey?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
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Does war work;
Let's see,over 5 million people have been killed by us ,the USA,in Iraq and A-stan.
We have 4500 casualties.
The cost has been estimated between 4 and 6 TRILLION dollars for these conflicts.
That equates to somewhere around a million dollars a kill.
Sustainable allright.
Who does WAR work for?
5 million people
and you wonder WHY they hate us.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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good point willbeer. it wouldn't be profitable for free either
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Nov 20, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
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It is a big question. Your reply is thoughtful and courteous and long, like this thread and our sad history.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
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So wilbeer,
Please do tell us what should we have done after this.....
Please do tell us.
And you wonder why we might just hate them.....
BTW: You Wilbeer and the rest here, do know that more Americans died that day than they did at Pearl Harbor.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
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chilled for a minute.
let the hot blood settle.
let the capitalizing insectocracy of dollar/oil-demand chill.
you know, not started a war the next day.
it's like basic one-night-stand courtesy. chill for a minute until substantive matter arrives.
For the record, was substantive matter ever presented to show the fund-sources of SHTFCK bin Laden or the shite logic for Saddam/Iraqi involvement?
An honest question for you fellows.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
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And basically FK all them Americans that died that day at the hands of radical Islam, right Boyscout^^^^
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
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While Wilbeer's thinking on that one, I'll answer you, The Chief.
Yes on Afghanistan and no on Iraq. One was justified and one wasn't at all.
And if Wilbeer thinks that we're really the cause of all this (no wonder they hate us)? Naive at best. Innocent.
No, it's not pure "bad guys" versus "good guys" in this situation. Of course not. But (two examples only) we don't intentionally target non-combatants (at least we're not supposed to), and we don't treat women like chattels. There are big differences here. Fundamentalist Islam has a lot of evil. And we've got a lot of good.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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No chief, I dog-bless every upside-down involuntary skydive that day. All firey Hell death assuredly, and by un-righteous CIA money, eh?... NM, tell me about righteous non-Company killings RP
I got my first good BJ off of fear that day. And you, Chief? What did you take?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Nov 20, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
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Outrageous, we have got to get that kill price down.
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