Mammoth Mountainís Via Ferrata private on public land?!

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KRS-Grun

Trad climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 12, 2018 - 10:17pm PT
Mammoth Mountain is currently installing a via ferrata with approval from the Forest Service. They claim it is private property despite being installed on public land. https://www.mammothmountain.com/summer/things-to-do/adventure-center/new-for-2018
This seems strange to me as I canít bolt a route and then declare my bolts are my property and keep people off my routes.
Credit: KRS-Grun
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jun 12, 2018 - 10:57pm PT
maybe if you entered into a lease with the forest service in which you pay them for the exclusive right to offer the use of your bolts then you could.

I think it's easier in this situation to just pretend the bolts and cables are lifts. same thing really
Ŗ ő ō T « H

Boulder climber
ne'erĖdoĖwell
Jun 13, 2018 - 01:06am PT
Alterra Mountain Company -- Gag me with a spoon.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 13, 2018 - 06:45am PT
There is a zipline coming soon. Gondola up, zipline down. Where is the via ferrata going to be.
KRS-Grun

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2018 - 07:14am PT
Just seems like a weird grey area they will own the route. In Europe they have lots of via ferrataís but from my understanding they are public. This case isnít as bad a the one installed in Monterrey, Mexico where they bolted over a 1,000 foot classic 5.9 arete. Down there the company that received the government money to install it tries to lay claim to it but the public still uses it.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:23am PT
The USFS can permit public use on federal land if they want to. It's not really comparable to an individual bolting a route on their own.

Any idea where the via ferratta is being installed? I dunno- it looks like fun to me. I'd give it a run.
Mtbphoto

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, Ca
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:30am PT
I heard about the Via Ferrata via a billboard in Bishop the other day. I would imagine it would have to be at "Top of the World" right up by the gondola. I always assumed that area has a ton of loose rock.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:30am PT
Pay for the insurance policy that is required under the FS lease and youíll be set for privatizing your two bolt slab! ;)
KRS-Grun

Trad climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2018 - 07:33am PT
Iím not saying itís the same as a person putting in bolts personally but there is clearly a similarity as they are putting bolts in rock as well as all the other hardware. My opinion is only that because it is on USFS land one should be allowed to hike up to it and climb it on their own. This is the first time USFS ha granted permission for this so itís a pretty unique scenario.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:40am PT
You pay for the right to ride the chairlift and ski, how is this different?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:40am PT
The Forest Circus sells our trees to be turned into bum wipe so how is this different?
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:43am PT
I agree with KRS. I don't like the idea of the FS granting exclusive rights to a corporation for access to land or even installations on that land. I'm sure there's room for exceptions here and there but via ferrata shouldn't be one of them.

Hopefully folks will go do it anyway, f*#k the ski company Lords and their King's Land Bullsh#t.

DMT
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Jun 13, 2018 - 07:46am PT
Ski resorts have long been able to lease land from the FS and charge for activities on that land. And set their own rules(see Alta and no snowboards).
Not sure how this is any different.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jun 13, 2018 - 08:01am PT
Yeah-^^^ its really no different. The USFS is not a conservation organization. They advocate public use of federal lands and can discriminate at will. There was another thread about allowing private helicopter companies exclusive rights to charge for heli-skiing-. They also lease land for grazing, mining and logging. It's all in the same basket.

Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jun 13, 2018 - 08:10am PT
Not sure how this is any different.

Yeah-^^^ its really no different.

Private rock climbing areas will be next, mark my words.

Don't lay down for the privatization of public lands. Just because Squaw or Mammoth managed to get exclusive contracts 60-70 years ago doesn't mean we should proliferate the practice.

Via ferrata today, some exclusive Disney Dome tomorrow, whole Exclusive Preserves after that. Don't let old school practice guide new exclusivity going forward. Not that our current national leaders would bite but I would strip the FS of the ability to issue these kinds of contracts without per-bid congressional approval.

Keep public lands public. Stomp the camel's nose whenever it sneaks under the edge of the tent.

And bootie this via Ferrata. To hell with the Lords of the King's Land! And yes I have skied resorts without paying too, f*#k those guys.

DMT
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 13, 2018 - 08:32am PT
Iíve climbed at a private crag where you have to pay to play. Crawdad Canyon. Really not that great, but for ten bucks on the way out of town it was an interesting diversion.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jun 13, 2018 - 08:35am PT
The FS can't stop you from gaining access and climbing YOUR rock. But they can stop you from using THEIR bolts and cables. Just like you can access the ski resort, but you can't ride the lifts (some areas even prevent you from accessing FS land under lease and this is a legal gray area).
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 13, 2018 - 09:36am PT
So is access to the FS owned ski area restricted to pass holders. Can you skin up and ski down?

You need a pass for the xc track, I assume the same rule applies at the mountain

So the same would apply to the rock

The extra income from the summer might help moderate lift ticket prices. Wishful thinking
silverplume

Trad climber
Boulder
Jun 13, 2018 - 10:06am PT
According to the Forest Service NEPA project site, these are going in on the Upper Caldera Overlook cliffs, E-NE of McCoy Station at 9,600 feet.
D2R2

Sport climber
Earth
Jun 13, 2018 - 11:39am PT
No uphill traffic allowed at MMSA.

Private climbing areas and via ferratas? Nelson Rocks in West VA I think or somewhere near there...

nrocks.com
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