Castle Rock Guides staking "claims" with a top rope

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Shitguy

Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 14, 2011 - 03:54pm PT
I just want to let the guides who were working at Castle Rock on Tuesday know that I dropped your top rope anchors. The locking carabiner hit really hard on the rocks and you might want to retire it.

It's not okay to get to the park super early so you can set up the TR for your clients who are lagging behind. I get up early to go climbing. If other climbers beat me to the crags, oh well, that's the way it goes. When I arrived to Goat Rock, TR's were set up, but no one was around. Everyone was back at the parking lot NOT CLIMBING. I could site safety reasons for dropping your unattended gear, but it was really passive aggressive behavior on my part. No apologies. Setting up gear so your clients can potentially use it later, is BS. If you're not climbing, dont leave your crap in the way of other climbers.

I dont care if you have paying clients or not. I encourage all climbers to drop gear that has been set up by guides as a means to stake a claim for their clients. It's BS and will not be tolerated.
T H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jul 14, 2011 - 03:57pm PT
Hear hear!
Kurt Ettinger

Trad climber
Martinez, CA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:00pm PT
BOOTY?

Dang Two folks beat me!!
neversummer

Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:06pm PT
Should have just kept em'.....then walked past them with the biners in plain sight.
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
like
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:12pm PT
Not booty, just really bad form. They tend to 'claim' waterfall wall for a long time too but they're usually climbing on their rigs, not leaving them unattended. That's different. Just get there early (before 10am) and knock out the routes before they show.

The situation you descibe is just bad form. Especially on the more popular rock in the park. What route?

Were there ropes attached to the rig? If not, it's booty.

bergbryce

Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
No one on the ropes? No one even appearing to get ready to climb the ropes?
Agreed, drop that $hit.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
Bad form on their part.

Bad form on your part.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
If you really want to screw with them run some solo laps on goat rock.
I've pissed off quite a few of them doing that.

The REI group leaders have tended to be real as#@&%es out there lately and the seem to think they own the park. I have taken to being polite and doing what I want and just ignoring them.

I could tell you stories but it ain't worth my time.

Also just booty their sh#t if they leave it - that's total BS...

Or if you don't like that idea then pull their ropes and rub them in a bunch of poison oak ;)

kev
NotIt

Trad climber
SF, CA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:37pm PT
+1 agreement
apogee

climber
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
What's the name of the guiding program? (Was it REI?)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 14, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
If you really want to screw with them run some solo laps on goat rock.
I've pissed off quite a few of them doing that.

The REI group leaders have tended to be real as#@&%es out there lately and the seem to think they own the park. I have taken to being polite and doing what I want and just ignoring them.

I could tell you stories but it ain't worth my time.

Also just booty their sh#t if they leave it - that's total BS...

Or if you don't like that idea then pull their ropes and rub them in a bunch of poison oak ;)

kev


Yeah, I've soloed that rig with you before and we get the "you're setting a bad example" crap from them.

WTF??? Who is setting the bad examples? POLICE YOUR GEAR! Use it or pull it! Have some f*#king consideration for the most popular crag in the park.

And when I CHOOSE to solo a route and I'm not on your route, don't lecture me with your contrived ethics.

They're a little snooty to put it lightly, but this is the Ghey Area so I take it with a grain of salt and just ignore them.

Arrogant as#@&%es....
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Jul 14, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
It is always bad form to set up TRs and hog a crag to the exclusion of others. It is unacceptable to set up TRs to "reserve" climbs and leave them unattended.

Under the circumstances you describe, dropping their anchors/ropes is justified -- but I guess I would say that the best course would have been to take the time to pull and coil their ropes and neatly gather their gear. Rude behavior doesn't always justify a rude response.
msiddens

Trad climber
Mountain View
Jul 14, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
man, sorry that's bad form. +++++1
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 14, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
Very nice of yout to remove an attractive nuisance. SOmeone could jump on those ropes, misuse them as they are unsupervised, and the service would be liable for failure to secure their gear. They ought to thank you.

Most of the reputable guides I know would never be a high profile hog.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jul 14, 2011 - 09:13pm PT
was it the case that they set it up and it's just one guy, and he goes back and let's his clients follow him back?

why not just use the ropes if you wanted to climb it. If you don't want to climb it with the ropes there, why not just leave it?

What time of the morning was this? When did the clients arrive? Did you stop to find out who it was?


There are more than just 'rei' guides up there, many would be willing to let you use the ropes if you wanted to climb it, or like Kev, just solo that rig.

Dropping gear doesn't change behaviors. Engaging people might.

Chango

Trad climber
norcal
Jul 14, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
I was up there Tuesday and didn't see any REI vans...but did see a local guide. I can't imagine a guide not taking down a TR setup if you asked to lead it....or let you borrow the setup to TR yourself. If the guide refuses to do either...I wouldn't hesitate to pull the rope. BTW, one heck of a nice day up there on Tuesday.
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Jul 14, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
Not sure if it is more or less passive aggressive, but simply throwing a clove up top (if it's set up as a TR) seems quicker and more satisfying to me.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jul 14, 2011 - 10:09pm PT
I'm a guide and I've been on the other side of this. I've had five TRs set at Goat Rock at once (though not in recent years).

I'm sensitive about hogging the resource, so here's what I've always done: Greet parties that show up and offer them to share my ropes. Sometimes they set up a neighboring route and return the favor.

They get to check out my industrial-strength anchors. Sometimes we swap beta. I get to warn naive climbers about some sketchy bolts and how I back them up. Over many years I have not felt a grudge coming from any of the climbers I've met there.

You made a couple of assumptions:

1.) They were actually going to hog the resource and exclude you.
(You assumed that but didn't know. If it were me, you would have been wrong.)

2.) Their anchors would exclude you from setting your anchors in parallel.
(There's lots of room up there. I've seen 3, 4, 5 anchors overlapping but not interfering with each other. The main anchor points are that huge bulge and the tree. Both are capable of supporting countless anchors.)

I often set up climbs there that hardly anyone else knows. It spreads the use and shares the wealth.

Let's share. Works for me.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 14, 2011 - 10:14pm PT
Munge,

The last REI incident I had out there was just before my surgery, so early march. Anyhow, I wanted to run a few solo laps on goat before heading off to climb some other stuff. Anyhow there was a large REI group there. I mentioned to him that I was gonna run a lap (not asking for permission but more of a heads up in case his clients freaked). Anyhow he said they were almost done and would I mind waiting a few minutes. This annoys me but I say ok. 25 minutes later he finally gets two people down from two separate ropes and proceeds to tie more in. So now I tell him rather assertively I'm running a lap or two while he gets his people tied in. He tells me not to. I say ok, smile at him, finish my beer, then start climbing. It was quite funny actually. He got his panties all in a bunch. That's when I realized I'm just going to do my thing up there and if someone has a problem with it tough.

Had a similar problem out their with some old fart with kids sometime this year too.

But recently this cub scout troop was quite happy to have some help from the soloist. This poor kid was so petrified he couldn't rappel but with a little help he was able to and he got his merit badge. I mention this because not all the groups out there are d-bags.

Interestingly enough many of the 'guides' out there aren't registered and actually acting illegally. Doubt the big operations are but...Anyhow there clearly seems to be an attitude of ownership of the rock by the REI folks but the fact is they don't own it so you should just go climb your way and ignore them. If they aren't there move their sh#t and set up your own rope. They only reason they maintain this sense of ownership is that we give it to them. So stop allowing them to be entitled!

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