Castle Rock Guides staking "claims" with a top rope

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Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jul 15, 2011 - 11:29am PT
Skip, once again you show your true color by hiding behind a computer and critizing other people on subjects that you yourself don't get out and do. Pretty fricking lame. Get a life.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 15, 2011 - 12:55pm PT
You admit harming their equipment.

Skipt, so you don't have any booty gear?

You retire all gear you dropped?

Seriously your post seems really...weird.

kev
Tfish

Trad climber
La Crescenta, CA
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
I'm sure you've done that route a few times. Why didn't you just move on and go find a random line you've never tried or only done once? What would you have done if it was just packed with other normal climbers? I could see maybe if you drove like 3 hours to get a route you've been dreaming of but just an easy route that a people are learning on? I agree thats lame they left it, but you're a kook for ruining their gear with your hissy fit.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:12pm PT
Pull it. Don't drop the hardware.

Many areas have regs sbout commercial use and limits on group sizes. Check it.

Also express your displeasure to the operator. If it is REI, issue a complaint to their offices. Tell them climbers have noted and are taking their business elsewhere.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
"That is the definition of actionable where I come from."

Legal remedy? Hahaha, you are gonna take him to court for a $10 dropped biner? Thats silly...

martygarrison

Trad climber
Washington DC
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
+1 for Doug. I used to do this same thing at Jtree. Setup a number of top ropes for my clients (normally 5 or 6). Then offered them to any other climbers who wished to used them. If anyone wanted to lead a climb I would pull my ropes down. Never had a problem and had some really fun days meeting new folks. Now just setting up the rock with no clients around is bad form...IMHO.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:33pm PT
From the first post
TR's were set up, but no one was around. Everyone was back at the parking lot NOT CLIMBING.
Rather rude, inconsiderate and selfish behavior on the guide's part. If you didn't want to personally confront him (the best option) and you needed the anchor for yourself, you could have pulled the gear up to the top, dismantled his belay, set your own and gone on with your life. When he came back with his clients, he'd have gotten the message.
It's my understanding that paid guides at any State Park are required to have a concession. I've seen REI vans at CRSP and I've also spoken with a guide I've seen there a few times. He seems a heads up guy and is an employee of a well known east side guiding service. He said his service has a concession.
If you think you have a legitimate complaint you could certainly contact California State Parks.
Karl Tallman
Mountain Sector Superintendent
California State Parks - Santa Cruz District
101 Big Trees Park Rd., Felton, CA, 95018
(831) 335-6316
They could then remind all guide concessions that this was inappropriate behavior.

Goat Rock is a wide face with three widely spaced and easily accessed top rope anchors. How was it that the deserted gear was spoiling your day?

Edited to correct address and phone number
and to note that the OP never said it was REI.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
+ another 1 for Doug.

My fuse gets blown when I see guides (or even just regular groups) hogging all the lines on a small crag. But there's better ways to deal with the frustration in such a case.

For example, you could have simply used their gear if you were TR'ing. If you were leading, pull the rope out of the way and coil it or hang it off to the side. Then, if and when the folks come back to use their gear, you could tell them how inappropriate it is to leave stuff hanging around in a state park.

The devil on one side says "Give their rope a core shot." The angel says "teach them what's right."

You never know, maybe it was a group of co-eds who wanted to climb on a hot summer day.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:37pm PT
Somebody needs to get a little further from town.








Jus' sayin'.






sheesh!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 15, 2011 - 01:50pm PT
For those un-familiar with the Bay area:
CRSP has a very good mix of trad, toprope and high quality bouldering routes in over a dozen areas. It's 30 minutes from San Jose, 1 1/2 hours from Berkeley. It has beautiful and long hiking trails.
Goat Rock is a 20 - 30 minute hike from the nearest parking and is in a spectacular near-wilderness location. The next nearest significant climbing area is the Pinnacles, 2 hours south from San Jose and 3 from Berkeley. Usually too hot to climb there in the summer. Next major crags are in various places in the Sierra foothills, 2 - 3 hours from the Bay area.
So Castle Rock State Park is definitely a main attraction for hikers and climbers. In many ways it is an example of the stress between popular use and a semi-wilderness area. All users need to speak up responsibly and try to work with each other and park management.
Fred Glover
bogie

Gym climber
Mountain View, CA
Jul 15, 2011 - 02:23pm PT
I experienced the same situation at Cragmont in Berkeley back in May or June. The group who set up the TRs was "Living Social". More like "Living Sociopaths" HAHAHAHAHA


but seriously, I called the local police and told them someone has monopolized the park and is charging people to use it. I didn't stick around to see what happened.

kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 15, 2011 - 02:49pm PT
Fatty,

Mattress? I'm not on a rope.

kev
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 15, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
All,

Please do not go to the superintendent of the park (or anyone else
of authority associated with the park). Summit is already closed,
there are rumblings of other things becoming closed, etc. We don't
need that kinda publicity as climbers.

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 15, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
kev
You and I are usually in disagreement on the best approach to preserve our climbing areas. In this case particularly. The "offending party", if there was indeed an offense, is, or should be, a park concessionaire. They are therefore quite rightly under the purview of the State Park management. When "we" raise our concern in a respectful way I believe we'll be treated respectfully.

I don't suggest that anyone except the OP complain to the park management since the rest of us are only offering hearsay opinions.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 15, 2011 - 03:15pm PT
HT,

If the current climate up there wasn't much more anticlimber than it's been in a long time I would totally agree with you. Just seems like right now we don't need any publicity with the man. I'm not sure how much you've been involved (or following) with the access fund and their/our attempt to get summit reopened but my 'avoid the man' wrt (with respect to) this issue is in light of what's been happening up there lately, not in general. In the past I have been involved in public input, etc in a number of areas - just think that this is the wrong time for this place....

kev
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 15, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
Educate yourself on what the regs are - that doesn't involve talking to the man.

Talk to the guide, the guiding service, the guiding service's headquarters (if applicable).

Talk to the AF Rep/RC whomever the access guru is.

Climbers should always avoid airing the dirty laundry in front of authorities. They don't distinguish between us, and we risk losing all because we are too much trouble, unmanageable, etc. That is what my 20+ years of negotiating access issues taught me. For some venues, guides are perceived to be a strong ally in managing the resource and keeping a lid on reckless climbers. For other venues, they are perceived as exploiters of a public resource, generating crowds.

Keep in mind - no one was there, and you did get to climb.

I'd be yapping at the guide service operator to be more respectful. I'd also appeal to their risk adverse nature. You have no idea what has happened to ropes left alone, and you've left an open invitation to climb using them. You don't know who or what will mess with them, tie into them, etc.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 15, 2011 - 03:50pm PT
All the guides posting here seem to be doing it right. I've seen Bob Gaines and Clark Jacobs pull ropes when someone wanted to get on a route. Just good business, really. As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "Love may fail, but courtesy will always prevail."

Boy Scout leaders seem the worse as far as thinking they own the rock, in my experience.

At Atlantis Wall one day, a huge group of "at risk" youth was top roping a lot of routes. Their "guides" offered to let us climb on their ropes. Fortunately we'd already seen what they considered to be anchors. So I'm surprised you guys jump on anchors you don't know.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 15, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
RJ,

Hmmm now that might not be a bad idea...

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 15, 2011 - 04:10pm PT
Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't made another post?
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 15, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
No. We like talking to ourselves.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 113 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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