Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
"Was the 2006 so2 doubling a global value or was it for the NE US, where we know acid rain was a problem for the US?"

If memory serves, the previous high point had been matched near Riverside (CA), Hong Kong, Beijing and Berlin. The numbers for the NE US were down a bit from that previous high point. The 2x record high was measured in '06 near Mexico City.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
There you go. Doubling near Mexico city is not evidence about our NE acid rain problem.

So it was a misleading statement.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Impressive stuff from the Mad Dog. It's like hearing the band's roadie talk about the creative process that led to the hit song.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
"There you go. Doubling near Mexico city is not evidence about our NE acid rain problem. So it was a misleading statement."

Some people simply do not get science, especially the political influence part of the picture...
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
And yet, in 2006, atmospheric SO2 measurement doubled the previous high point.

Er, um, for near Mexico City, not globally.

If you want to be perceived as a scientist, you are going to need to be more precise.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
13,000+ posts settling the science.

Not one workable solution among them.

Time for you scientists to quit wringing your hands, and tell the rest of us how you intend to reverse the problem.

Maybe you need to partner-up with the Political Science department.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Dr F,

I said workable solutions.

One of the first things I learned, the first day of my very first job, is don't ever go to the boss with a problem unless you have a solution in mind. Nobody wants to hear someone complain about things that can't be fixed. You'll get a reputation as a whiner.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Some people simply do not get science.

Dude, you're the one who led off here with nonsense about Al Gore, "correlative proof," and claims about "the vast majority of the world's leading scientists."

Perhaps that was just a bad start. What do you get from the Abraham et al. (2013) paper I quoted earlier, addressing the ocean temperature, measurement and attribution issues you mention?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Chaz, maybe the boss is smarter than you?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Hey Chef,go to the General Accounting Office's website,[those pesky liberal accountants]show me how much we ,the U.S.A.,spend on global warming research,adaptation,and prevention.
Show us.
Till then ,you are just some guy spraying.
As for its going to cost us billions,yeah,death panels,weapons of mass destruction.Your teams spray is just so accurate.
Afraid you are going to lose your pension?
Get a Job.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
I'm thinking all our resources will be better utilized in just dealing with the changing climate, seeing how the great minds can't tell us what they would do to roll it back.





Monolith writes:

"Chaz, maybe the boss is smarter than you?"

All the bosses I had any respect for were.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
acid rain is a great example

Info on sour gas plants in Alberta and how the emission of SO2 has been decreased through legislation
http://www.environment.gov.ab.ca/info/library/7232.pdf
see figure 13 (last page) for sulphur recovery rate vs year

more info here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_process
www.topsoe.com
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
I'm thinking all our resources will be better utilized in just dealing with the changing climate, seeing how the great minds can't tell us what they would do to roll it back.

I don't know if anyone thinks we can roll back the changes already in motion, but maybe hope to reduce how far and fast they go in the future. We've already bought quite a bit of change in the pipeline.

One discovery in the paleoclimate record has been some large climate swings in the past, out of proportion to any known changes in solar or orbital factors. So they have to be explained by feedbacks where relatively small initial changes, such as solar/orbital variations or transient volcanics, kick off greenhouse-gas changes that amplify the consequences. And along the way, change how the wind blows, the ocean currents flow, and where the rain or snow falls -- which is how you get those abrupt transitions in some ice core records, that show regional heating/cooling much faster than the planet itself could warm or cool.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
"Dude, you're the one who led off here with nonsense about Al Gore, "correlative proof," and claims about "the vast majority of the world's leading scientists."

Yes, I realize that was confusing, but it was a troll because I'm so sick of hearing the mainstream press spew what science has "proven" about global warming. And I do agree that Al Gore is a big windbag of nonsense.

"Perhaps that was just a bad start. What do you get from the Abraham et al. (2013) paper I quoted earlier, addressing the ocean temperature, measurement and attribution issues you mention?"

I didn't get anything startlingly new from the Abraham paper. The red flag popped up in my mind WRT ocean temperature about 1980 and the trend continues. We've been seeing the effect of T on sea water vaporization and the increased intensity of tropical storms. I envision a time when FEMA and others convince Congress to not allow the coastline to be rebuilt with disaster relief funds.

......

Chief: "Sorry, but the higher over educated Scientism minds DO NOT UNDERSTAND this very fundamental thought process."

In the first place, science has failed too often. The funding process is part of the problem - researchers get plenty of clues about which hypotheses are likely to get funded. WRT the whole GW debate, I believe the political process has fueled the current failure. Deepwater Horizon was just the latest clue of how deeply our leadership is committed to big oil. I see their involvement in GW as simply a mechanism to bring in more votes.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 29, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
I didn't get anything startlingly new from the Abraham paper. The red flag popped up in my mind WRT ocean temperature about 1980 and the trend continues.

Did you get that Abraham et al are writing not about sea surface temperature but ocean heat content, specifically its measurement, uncertainty and attribution? In the short term, SST and OHC can move in opposite directions.

Also just published:

Recent global-warming hiatus tied to equatorial Pacific surface cooling
Yu Kosaka & Shang-Ping Xie

Despite the continued increase in atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations, the annual-mean global temperature has not risen in the twenty-first century1, 2, challenging the prevailing view that anthropogenic forcing causes climate warming. Various mechanisms have been proposed for this hiatus in global warming3, 4, 5, 6, but their relative importance has not been quantified, hampering observational estimates of climate sensitivity. Here we show that accounting for recent cooling in the eastern equatorial Pacific reconciles climate simulations and observations. We present a novel method of uncovering mechanisms for global temperature change by prescribing, in addition to radiative forcing, the observed history of sea surface temperature over the central to eastern tropical Pacific in a climate model. Although the surface temperature prescription is limited to only 8.2% of the global surface, our model reproduces the annual-mean global temperature remarkably well with correlation coefficient r = 0.97 for 1970–2012 (which includes the current hiatus and a period of accelerated global warming). Moreover, our simulation captures major seasonal and regional characteristics of the hiatus, including the intensified Walker circulation, the winter cooling in northwestern North America and the prolonged drought in the southern USA. Our results show that the current hiatus is part of natural climate variability, tied specifically to a La-Niña-like decadal cooling. Although similar decadal hiatus events may occur in the future, the multi-decadal warming trend is very likely to continue with greenhouse gas increase.


http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12534.html
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 29, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
"Did you get that Abraham et al are writing not about sea surface temperature but ocean heat content, specifically its measurement, uncertainty and attribution? In the short term, SST and OHC can move in opposite directions."

Sure, but I heard a similar position voiced by Simonson years ago. I see this as incremental improvement to the knowledge base, which does nothing to depreciate its value. The magnitude of the heat sink is staggering.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/08/29/if-all-you-see-875/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:29am PT
Yesterday i mentioned posting papers about reconstructions of the pronounced swings of climate change, like the little ice age and medieval warm period compared to the late 20th centuries little climate swing. Well lo and behold here is a review paper from co2 science doing exactly that for China.

http://www.co2science.org/subject/c/summaries/chinatemptrends.php

Looks like you doomists have been taking a bit of a beating lately from somebody actually in the research field of atmospheric science. Can't say i feel sorry for you guys.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:39am PT
The Chief ...yeah that was me the other day...I recognized you by your plumbers crack when you whizzed by...Did you see my Climate Deniers Suck bumper sticker....? RJ
dirtbag

climber
Aug 30, 2013 - 01:31am PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



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