Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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crunch

Social climber
CO
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
hey, Ed hartouni, some of us appreciate your input.

Fully agree with your analysis of the situation.

1. The science of CO2 being a greenhouse gas is proven.
2. We are pumping huge amounts of CO2 into the air, very rapidly.

Therefore, the atmosphere will, in time, warm up.

Fluctuations in the our climate, sun, oceans (including cooling effect on the air caused by particulate matter from burning of coal and cooling of the oceans from melting of ice) can overwhelm this warming, at least for the present, but as CO2 levels rise ever higher, the human-caused warming from CO2 has to have an ever stronger effect.

None of this is in doubt.

What is in doubt is what we do about this.

Big thanks to the scientists who are trying to improve our understanding of what is going on, so the we can be better informed.



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
weve been told burning wood releases CO2 into the atmopshere. However, that same wood had STORED CO2 in it. So it had REMOVED CO2 from the atmosphere and stored it within its layers. Therefore a NUETRAL component. It took and it gave in equal parts. But not according to the propaganda...
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Fluctuations in the our climate, sun, oceans (including cooling effect on the air caused by particulate matter from burning of coal and cooling of the oceans from melting of ice) can overwhelm this warming, at least for the present, but as CO2 levels rise ever higher, the human-caused warming from CO2 has to have an ever stronger effect.

What are you personally doing to cease your part in all this, Crunch?

Or are you just another one of them typical folks out there that is waiting for the Gov't to fix it. All the while they/you are doing/living life business as usual. Probably so.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Ron, we are adding more and more CO2 to the atmosphere.

Here, a graph of CO2 sources:

Sources of CO2. From the EPA
Sources of CO2. From the EPA
Credit: crunch

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/co2.html

Trees are a small, tiny component.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
well i suppose that both the non fossil AND home components in yur graph concern wood product use. And yes they are LESS value than others as far as combustion goes. But what about scrubbing and soil degradation? What about the lack of CO2 users in otherwords? Throughout millions of acres in N america alone. What about the Valleys of CA that now are dry as a bone due to a delta smelt concern? And what about BURNING man! A sixty thousand person party of combustibles!
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Ron, we are adding more and more CO2 to the atmosphere.

Crunch, you are part of the problem. What are you doing to clean up YOUR act!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
most of the time rsin,, i wonder WTH your talking about. This time is no exception...
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jun 14, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
Fluctuations in the our climate, sun, oceans (including cooling effect on the air caused by particulate matter from burning of coal and cooling of the oceans from melting of ice) can overwhelm this warming, at least for the present, but as CO2 levels rise ever higher, the human-caused warming from CO2 has to have an ever stronger effect.

What are you personally doing to cease your part in all this, Crunch?

Or are you just another one of them typical folks out there that is waiting for the Gov't to fix it. All the while they/you are doing/living life business as usual. Probably so.

I'm posting something that you can't argue against.

All you can do is change the subject.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
I'm asking what you are personally doing CRUNCH other than being the proverbial liberal that sings the song of doom, expects others to fix it and really does nothing themselves to do their part to clean up the air.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
It is totally on subject.

Lot's of hypocrisy flowing. Do as I demand but don't expect me to play. Uh Uh.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
^^^^^^Zzzzzzz.....^^^^^^^
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
^^^^^^^^^PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...ahh... ZIIIIP^^^^^
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 14, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
^^^^^It better. If not, it is toast as were the millions of other species that have gone before it. But that requires man to relearn how to adapt. Put that Iphone and Ipad down, and actually do something. Now that will take some doing. Bigtime.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
Man has adapted since neanderthal days right?

When the ice layers declined, he got out of those muskox booties and into some cooler deer skin models. Simple stuff really.


When those brownies got trapped by that ice earlier, they decided to go white to blend in and became "polar bears". They can certainly do the reverse in any time frame given.


Like here this am, it was cool enough in the shop to need a heater. But i simply put in a thicker shirt and walla, my micro climate disaster handled in efficient manner.


I would imagine those living at the seas edge will certainly be able to "cope" with that 17 to 22 inch rise in the next 80 some years as well...
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 14, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
Mchale- below is one of the sources for 3% anthropogenic contribution.From Dr. Fred Singer.

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Interesting Fred Singer info:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/S._Fred_Singer
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
Actually Ron, the Neanderthal died out around 30,000 years ago. Try again.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
a bit of sarcasm dirt,but since you mention it, actually:



Consequently, the exact nature of biological and cultural interaction between Neanderthals and other human groups between 50,000 and 30,000 years ago has been contested.[89] A new proposal strives to resolve the issue by proposing the Gravettians rather than the Aurignacians as the anatomically modern humans who contributed to the Eurasian genetic pool after 30,000 years ago.[89] Correspondingly, the human skull fragment found at the Elbe River bank at Hahn÷fersand near Hamburg was once radiocarbon-dated to 36,000 years ago and seen as possible evidence for the intermixing of Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans. It is now dated to the more recent Mesolithic.[90]
Interbreeding hypotheses
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 14, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
lordy Bruce,, it must suck to be in a humorless self. To not be able to recognize the simplest of sarcasms is just sad.

crunch

Social climber
CO
Jun 14, 2013 - 03:14pm PT

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.

We humans are adding lots of CO2 to the atmosphere.

About 5.5 billion tons of carbon per year from fossil fuels:

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/co2_cycle.html

This is ongoing. No sign of us slowing down. The concentration of CO2 is 30 per cent higher than 150 years ago.

Therefore, we are warming the atmosphere.

Okay, since we accept that this is true, what do we do?

This is where the debate becomes poisonous.

Because in a world of 7 billion people, individual actions, by those of us wealthy enough to even be able to make environmentally conscious decisions will not be remotely enough to offset all that CO2.

The only effective remedies to all this CO2 require action by government-sized entities: either governments, treaties/agreements between governments, multi-national corporations:

1. Cutting use of fossil fuel, big time, or

2. Sequestering CO2.

Eventually we will likely do some of both and luckily it seems that existing models have been overly pessimistic. So we have some time to improve the models and ponder potential appropriate measures.
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