Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
I think you will have great difficulty demonstrating that climate change caused a drought last summer or is affecting the average American pocketbook in any way that doesn't include sanctions or other imposed enviro-taxes.

And I have a sympathetic ear.

But blaming climate change, or reworded, crediting climate change with, for example, large violent Oklahoma tornados, or any other periodic weather event, seems ill-advised to me. Its the sort of leap-of-logic often attributed to the climate-change-deniers and certainly offers fuels for their flames.

DMT

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
I think you will have great difficulty demonstrating that climate change caused a drought last summer or is affecting the average American pocketbook in any way that doesn't include sanctions or other imposed enviro-taxes.

think so, eh Dingus?

well then, why don't you quickly verify for yourself by googling the continuous price history of wheat, corn, or soybeans---and then see the impact of last summer's heat and drought on prices

but you are a smart guy, you don't need me to tell you something as simple as that

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2012/oct/10/food-price-rise-uk-crop-harvest

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5434
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Wow you mean the weather affects crop prices?

GASP!!!!!1111111111

Who the bleep knew THAT?

You're such a smart guy, why don't you prove the connection between climate change and last year's drought.

DMT
abrams

Sport climber
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Credit: abrams

or is it really a help to cool the planet? Aerosols
from coal have been proved to have a cooling affect
on the atmosphere. And I know this sort of thinking makes
AGW believers brains hurt.


monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Aerosols are well understood by climate scientists and anyone who looks below the surface. At least as far as under what circumstances they are cooling or warming. They are also short lived, compared to CO2.

China is committed to reducing their aerosols because their people are demanding it.

Reduced aerosol stream will put some upward pressure on rising temps but no one is demanding that we keep up the stream.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
^^^

Seriously Abrams? You do understand that 2/3 of the SO4 emissions and 1/4 of the NOx emissions (e.g. the causes of acid rain) are from burning coal?

You're willing to trade one f'd situation for another f'd situation? Talk about making someone's brain hurt.
abrams

Sport climber
Aug 25, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
What? Who elevated me to emperor of the world and didn't tell me?
Not in my or anyone's power to stop coal use ElCap.

Check out this shocking view of world wide uncontrolled coal use.
Lots of these people are already sneaking past armed guards to
steal their daily basket full of coal.


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2012/01/coal.html


monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
Hilarious, Chief. Just ask the residents of Beijing and many other Chinese cities. They are demanding their government clean up the air.

Air pollution has gotten so bad that a study by the World Bank found that air pollution kills 750,000 people every year in China.[27] Amidst growing public concern, social unrest incidents are growing around the country. For example, in December 2011 the government suspended plans to expand a coal-fired power plant in the city of Haimen after 30,000 local residents staged a violent protest against it, on the grounds that "the coal-fired power plant was behind a rise in the number of local cancer patients, environmental pollution and a drop in the local fishermen's catch."[28]

In September 2011, the Chinese government's Ministry of Environmental Protection announced a new emission standard for thermal power plants, for NOx and mercury, and a tightening of SO2 and soot standards. New coal power plants have a set date of the beginning of 2012 and for old power plants by mid-2014. They must also abide by a new limit on mercury by beginning of 2015. It is estimated such measures could bring about a 70% reduction in NOx emissions from power plants.[33]

In 2012, industrial conglomerate China Wanxiang Holdings signed a $1.25 billion deal with American company GreatPoint Energy to build a large-scale plant using GreatPoint's catalytic hydromethanation process of coal gasification. The technology converts coal into natural gas and enables the recovery of contaminants in coal, petroleum coke and biomass as useful byproducts. Most importantly, nearly all of the CO2 produced in the process is captured as a pure stream suitable for sequestration or enhanced oil recovery.[34] The total project will cost an estimated $20 - 25 billion and will supply a trillion cubic feet of natural gas.[35] This represents a massive leap in the scale of domestic production for China, which last year produced only 107 billion cubic feet of natural gas.[36] The deal includes includes an equity investment of $420 million, the largest ever by a Chinese corporation into a venture-capital-funded U.S. company, according to industry tracker VentureSource.[34]
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Aug 25, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
You can't reason with a 5 year old, no matter what their birth year is.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Aug 25, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
Here's some free ammunition for wRONg and other on the opposition team. From News of the Weird:

British birdwatchers were especially excited by news earlier this year that a rare White-throated Needletail (the world's fastest flying bird) had been spotted on the U.K.'s Isles of Harris -- only the eighth such sighting in Britain in 170 years -- and ornithologists arranged for an expedition that attracted birdwatchers from around the world. A June report in the Daily Telegraph noted that about 80 people were on the scene when the bird appeared again, but then had to watch it fly straight toward the blades of a wind turbine. (As the event might be described by Monty Python, the bird thus joined the choir invisible, left this mortal coil, became an ex-White-throated Needletail.) [Daily Telegraph, 6-27-2013]
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Those are deadliest hurricanes, Chief. What an idiot.

Sandy wasn't called a superstorm for nothing.

We are able to give extensive evacuation warnings now.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
Duh, that's what I'm trying to tell ya Chief. Try to focus.

Deaths don't really mean much today with our forecasting abilities.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
Does SuperStorm Sandy mean anything to you Chief?

It was a combination of events that worked together to form one of the largest financial loss storms in history.

2nd largest financial loss, with Katrina being the largest. Both early in the 21st century.

Yep, Bharata, NYC does not get a lot of damaging hurricanes.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
And you are so positive about that? LOL.

The Alberta disaster this year was also a 'perfect storm' of events.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Fallacy of logic....
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 25, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
Chase yer tail much?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Yes, you can't prove exactly what mix of conditions causes a hurricane, a twister, a heat wave here of there, a coldspell here or there, so who in their right mind could prove CC and it's exact causes. Makes you wonder doesn't it? What an arrogant scam CAGW is!

Oh, and your reply post of this morning Ed- what a crock of shet, except for good science being able to make true predictions of the physical world. An ability most lacking in the majority if not entirety of CAGW science. So let's cut through the b.s. and talk about science that actually has a track record of true predictions.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
O.K., please make us some near term (1-2 year) predictions based upon what you consider the best available climate science. Then we can compare it to predictions of the same term from the guys on the other side of the fence. Your guys are now calling it "Climate Change", so what are the near term changes?

Let's drop the "political beliefs" and call it what it is- philosophical beliefs. Politics is the practice and advancement of a philosophy among other things.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
They say we are in the midst of anthropogenic climate change, do they not? So once again please drop the b.s. and let's here how your guys expect this change to manifest itself over the next few years. You, better than anyone here can understand the twisted, contorted logic, values, predictions of "The Science", so let's here it. The claim that you cannot discern the changes until long after we are all dead and stinky just doesn't cut it.
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