Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 11:32am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Knotty, Knotty Chief^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 11:48am PT
I think his reasoning is that if I do anything that risks my health, my motives regarding AGW are suspect.

Nope. Hypocrisy. You stand on a soap box proclaiming we all need to listen to and act upon the "consensus" regarding the science in AGW. All the while, you voluntarily partake in an activity that is proven, by science mind you, to have killed more humans than all the wars in the 20th Century and then some.
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Burchey you should warn your friend that reading Chief Running Mouth's posts might make him dumber.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
about those dang Polar Bears:



A survey by the Nunavut government in 2011 showed that polar bear numbers
in Western Hudson Bay have not declined since 2004 as predicted and all available
evidence indicates that Hudson Bay sea ice is not on a steadily precipitous decline –
good reasons not to be worried about Hudson Bay bears.
While polar bear biologists Ian Stirling and Andrew Derocher continue to insist that the
modest decline in numbers of Western Hudson Bay polar bears recorded between 1998
and 2004 was due to earlier breakup of sea ice – and continues on that trend to this day –
it turns out that much of the data used to support that claim is either unpublished, woe- is either unpublished, woe is either unpublished, woe--
fully out of date, or both. Although Stirling and colleagues have not yet published comparable dates of sea ice breakup since 2007 (they use a particular computation of satellite
data), Canadian Ice Service data5
suggests that over the last 10 years we have not seen
another very early breakup in Hudson Bay like the one that occurred in 2003. Surprisingly,
2009 was a late breakup year: the Port of Churchill experienced the latest breakup of sea
ice since 1974 (three weeks later than average). All of which suggests that in Western
Hudson Bay, some years have been good for polar bears and others have been not so
good, **but there has not been a relentless decline in sea ice breakup dates over the last
thirty years.


**



8) Global temperatures have not risen in a statistically�significant way in the
last 16 years9
(see Figure 2) – a standstill not predicted by climate models and a
phenomenon even the chairman of the IPCC has acknowledged10 – which **suggests
that the record sea ice lows of the last few years are probably not primarily due
to CO2**
�caused increases in global temperatures.11
Such changes in Arctic sea ice appear to be normal habitat variations that polar bears
have survived before (see point 9, below) and are likely due to natural processes we do
not yet fully understand.





) Survival of polar bears over a hundred thousand years (at least) of highly variable
sea ice coverage indicates that those biologists who portend a doomed future for
the polar bear have grossly underestimated its ability to survive vastly different
conditions than those that existed in the late 1970s when Ian Stirling began his
polar bear research.
Sea ice has varied – countless dozens of times – over the short term (decades-long climate oscillations) and the long term (glacial-to-interglacial cycles of thousands of years).
Over the last 100,000 years, there have been periods of much less ice than today, but also
much, much more. Polar bear population numbers probably fluctuated up and down in
conjunction with some of these sea ice changes but the polar bear as a species survived
– and so did all of the Arctic seal species it depends on for food. Such survival indicates
that these Arctic species, in an evolutionary sense, are very well-adapted to their highly variable habitat.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 30, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
Ed continues to bring interesting research to light to aid in the understanding the dynamics of the multitude of forces and mechanisms driving climate here on Earth.Large portions most of us can understand, other portions are written in the more complex language of science. Let's all give Mr. Hartouni a big round of applause for his patient efforts to keep us all informed. I think all of the more reasonable thinkers among us have ruled out imminent catastrophic anthropogenic forcing disasters. If you listen closely you can trust Ed's interpretations.Now read some of the science and ask questions.
Lennox

climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
May 30, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
re thechief

from wikipedia:



Chewbacca defense

Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense against Chef in South Park.
The Chewbacca defense is a legal strategy used in episode 27 of South Park, "Chef Aid", which premiered on October 7, 1998, as the fourteenth episode of the second season. The aim of the argument is to deliberately confuse the jury by making use of the fallacy known as ignoratio elenchi (or a red herring). The concept satirised attorney Johnnie Cochran's closing argument defending O. J. Simpson in his murder trial.

In the satire's original defense, the fictional Cochran started by stating, incorrectly, that Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. After then noting that this statement "does not make sense", Cochran continues to connect the senselessness of his own statement to the actual case, implying that it is equally senseless. His closing argument "If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit" is lampooning the actual Cochran's original "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit".

Usage

The Associated Press obituary for Cochran mentioned the Chewbacca defense parody as one of the ways in which the attorney had entered pop culture.[3]

Criminologist Dr. Thomas O'Connor says that when DNA evidence shows "inclusion", that is, does not exonerate a client by exclusion from the DNA sample provided, "About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a 'Chewbacca defense' … and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are."[4] Forensic scientist Erin Kenneally has argued that court challenges to digital evidence frequently use the Chewbacca defense by presenting multiple alternative explanations of forensic evidence obtained from computers and Internet providers to raise the reasonable doubt understood by a jury. Kenneally also provides methods that can be used to rebut a Chewbacca defense.[5][6] Kenneally and colleague Anjali Swienton have presented this topic before the Florida State Court System and at the 2005 American Academy of Forensic Sciences annual meeting.[7]

The term has also seen use in political commentary; Ellis Weiner wrote in The Huffington Post that Dinesh D'Souza was using the Chewbacca defense in criticism of then new Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, defining it as when "someone asserts his claim by saying something so patently nonsensical that the listener's brain shuts down completely".[8]

Jay Heinrichs' book Thank You for Arguing states that the term "Chewbacca defense" is "sneaking into the lexicon" as another name for the red herring fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense


thechief is the michelle bachman of supertopo--how can anyone want to try to debate that kind of crazy?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 30, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
So, you have read some of the science,and you have NO questions? Dick.

You think your position is reasonable?


Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 30, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
what rick said. Other Rick.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Good post Rick.. Ed has graciously "humored" many of here that certainly DONT understand the math and calculations. It is the end results from start to finish that actually inform more than the procedures themselves, at least for me.

My particular angle was to investigate the fauna flagships and the reactions of those in reality vs the theoretical graphs charts and figures. As i understand that angle far better. No ONE particular scientist is responsible for the GW info much as no ONE person has a handle on all the varying factors. (Flora, Fauna, climate, weather and history). that is QUITE the ball to roll into one with positive accuracy. ESPECIALLY given that GW flagships have sunk time and time again.

Still far too many "anomalies" that dont follow any models made thus far.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Burchey you should warn your friend that reading Chief Running Mouth's posts might make him dumber.

WTF you doing here, DIRTCLAUD.


Just out. The REALITY vs. The Fairy Tales.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 30, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Good news!!!

Global warming reversed. Glaciers are now advancing


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/30/alaska-ice-jam_n_3359775.html
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 30, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Chief here is a list of the things I believe:

Earth is 4.6 billion years old based on the science


Excuse me for sidetracking from the politics of global warming for a moment... from what event in the evolution of the planet is the 4.6 million years calculated?

From the epoch of the solar system's accretion disk gradually drawing material together into proto-planets? When a Mars sized body collided with the proto-earth, forging its present mass?...or from when the planet's crust cooled?

The formation of the planet took a vast interval of time. From what event... or sequence of cognate events in the unfolding development of the planet does "science" measure the apportioned 4.6 billion years?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
and now the ACTUAL reason polar bears were declared "endangered"..



In 2008, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declared the polar bear a threatened species under the U.S. Endangered Species Act. The declaration was not based on an actual decline in the polar bear population but on the government’s conclusion that future declines in Arctic sea ice will reduce the bear’s habitat and put it at risk.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
May 30, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
He Rick, great post! Ed, your patience and the info you have posted is very much appreciated.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 30, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
"Excuse me for sidetracking from the politics of global warming"

Excellent.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 30, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
^^^ Its a trap and a troll, don't respond!!!1111

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 30, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
How about the first known appearance of life Jennie. I believe stromata identified in Australia 3.8 billion years old. There are those that claim our solar system is a second generation system partially formed from the leftovers of a previous supernova. But, in a sense is their such a thing as time if their is not lifeforms to benefit from times change or evolution and to note its passage?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
the oldest life form known on this rock is,, the tadpole shrimp i believe. 220 million years old and going strong. We need to examine THEM instead of "duck penises".
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Global warming reversed. Glaciers are now advancing


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/30/alaska-ice-jam_n_3359775.html


Happens every season with a LATE thaw. Rick Sumner will testify to that. Nothing new. Keep drawing at them straws Bruce while you are lighting up that cigarette.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 30, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
So chef ,you agree with that analogy above as having nothing to do with GW,yet Dicks observation of a few weeks ago ,"still cross country skiing",has some sort of meaning?
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