Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
Besides, data would probably involve numbers and sh#t, and anyway, chief ignoramus, you can't be bothered with Math. Math, learning and sh#t gets in the way of your opinions.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 29, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
anything ive said can be easily googly-mooogled at yur finger tips.

did you know that at least seven of the major populations of P bears have "insufficient data" for even Canada to consider them on any "listings"?

Did you know that the Indians up there now see them more commonly near villages? That ISNT just for food supply but population spreading, according to the Indians there. If you slap a few porkchops to your pack when strolling through P bear country, they will eat those just the same as you.. Seals arent the only thing their noses twist for.

You may as well worry about the Nile Crocodile, thats been here in its ancient form for how long?








"Lyons was skeptical whether the decline in Arctic ice was due to “manmade global warming,” and whether that decline was hurting the bears. Any claim that polar bears are threatened is merely “a cynical attempt at emotional blackmail, designed to short-circuit debate about climate change while adding cash to the overflowing coffers of multinational green mega-NGOs,” Lyons asserted. “Given the apparent health of most polar-bear populations, it’s time the whole fairytale about polar-bear extinction was put on ice.”







edit: and Note, wildlife is my business, and the success of said wildlife.
Youve all heard the commercials and seen the natl news stories of Nevadas "great mustangs" and how THEY need to be saved.. THEY were "evolved" right out of the scene more than a decade ago. What we have now is free roaming quarter horses and mutts of all types. Yet millions donate to "the cause".. Juuusssssttt ducky that. They now support the non native non natural beasts that eat out of house and home and water- species like the Great basin Sage grouse, Desert bighorn sheep, mule deer and antelope among many others - all so they can take pictures of the fabulous mustangs they know of from hollywood productions.. They ruin rare water sources and can be found from the valleys to the peaks.

So you see, all manner of heart string tactics are involved in these "greener" causes and much of the time they are pure bull puckey.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 29, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Future Retreat of Arctic Sea Ice Will Lower Polar Bear Populations and Limit Their Distribution

Future reduction of sea ice in the Arctic could result in a loss of 2/3 of the world's polar bear population within 50 years according to a series of studies released today by the U.S. Geological Survey.

Last December, Secretary of the Interior Dirk Kempthorne announced that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) was proposing to list the polar bear as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Ac
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1773



**Climate change threatens polar bear populations: a stochastic demographic analysis
The polar bear (Ursus maritimus) depends on sea ice for feeding, breeding, and movement. Significant reductions in Arctic sea ice are forecast to continue because of climate warming. We evaluated the impacts of climate change on polar bears in the southern Beaufort Sea by means of a demographic analysis, combining deterministic, stochastic, environment-dependent matrix population models with forecasts of future sea ice conditions from IPCC general circulation models (GCMs). The matrix population models classified individuals by age and breeding status; mothers and dependent cubs were treated as units. Parameter estimates were obtained from a capture–recapture study conducted from 2001 to 2006. Candidate statistical models allowed vital rates to vary with time and as functions of a sea ice covariate
Read More: http://www.esajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1890/09-1641.1


**Arctic Bears
The Melting Arctic's Impact on Its Ecosystem

The polar bear has become the poster child of global warming, but there’s more to the Arctic than ice and polar bears. Beyond these two famous and prominent features of the Arctic environment, there is an entire intricate ecosystem of wildlife and plant life that will be profoundly affected by a prolonged warming trend in the Arctic.

There’s no doubt the Arctic is warming. In fact, this extreme region has warmed faster than any other on earth, with the Arctic temperature increasing three to five times faster than the Earth as a whole over the past 100 years. Climate models predict that the Arctic will become an additional 7 to 12 degrees Fahrenheit warmer during the next century.

Experts predict these rising temperatures are likely to cause the melting of at least half the Arctic sea ice by the end of the century. Melting ice is expected to lead to even higher Arctic temperatures as bright white ice plays a significant role in reflecting the sun’s radiation. As ice melts, more of the dark ocean and land are exposed to absorb the radiation, thus further warming the climate. Research has found that over a major portion of the ice-covered Arctic Ocean, sea ice is 40 percent thinner than it used to be. And some climate models predict that by 2070, there may be no summer ice cover in the Arctic at all.

The disappearance of sea ice is a particularly dire threat to the polar bear, a super specialist in the Arctic environment. Polar bears rely on the ice to hunt seals, their main food source, and also to rest between hunts out on the ice. Trapped, drowning and starving bears have become such a concern that in September 2007, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) released a series of studies that led its scientists to conclude that “future reduction of sea ice in the Arctic could result in a loss of two-thirds of the world’s polar bear population within 50 years.” As sad as such a fate for this majestic creature would be, the consequences would extend far beyond the bear. A polar bear decline could trigger what biologists call a “trophic cascade,” or a complete uncoupling of the Arctic food chain.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/arctic-bears/the-melting-arctics-impact-on-its-ecosystem/780/
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 29, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
hey cheif

link to some live webcams at the isle of Man
http://www.iomtt.com/TT-2013/Weather-and-Webcams.aspx
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 29, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
Ron,

please refute, denigrate, and destroy the quality of the climate change effecting the polar bears in my three above studies and decisions

in addition, please take down the education and credibility of the people involved

then, show you are man enough to admit when you are wrong, just once
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 29, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
So let's hear it Chief and Ron or are you both too scared to let your right wing buddies know the truth (you do everything that us eco-warriors do)!! Don't be ashamed for conserving our planet when you can!! It feels good to be alive and Chief if your truly connected to mother nature you don't harm her (I know you don't intend to)...leave your right wing lac-o-nuts behind and fully embrace the natural world. Mother Nature loves you both.

Lets have the truth about these facts as stated below...........

May 28, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
It isn't psych analysis Ron it is a fact. I would like you and the Chief to inform me if I am wrong;

You both hunt---and try to use as much of the animal as possible--that's called COSERVATION

You both RECYCLE, buy used items, and use what you have purchased new until it is worn out--nothing goes to waste in your houses.

You both leave no trace when out in the wilderness and often pick up the trash others have left there.

You both burn wood for heating at least some of the time and probably for cooking as well (burning wood is carbon neutral).

You both grow at least some of your food or gather it from the local woods.

You both would kick the sh#t out of any punks spray painting rocks, destroying a Joshua Tree, or abusing animals for pleasure.

I believe what I have posted above are FACTS!!

Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 29, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
I have a B.Sc in Chemistry
Werner has a Bu.Sh. in vedic nonsense.

Werner is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated american.

It is not my intention to belittle the achievements of ancient Indians. They did some really great stuff. But my intent is to show how stupid it is to show some outdated science in ancient texts and use it to make broad sweeping claims like Vedic scriptures knew everything about everything or about how scientific they are.
Ibid
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 29, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
Norton,, ive (once again) ALREADY posted all manner of links.

What ive said about the P bears upthread is fact. It is fact that the counts were WAYYYY off on the w-Hudson bay group, and you can go to WIKI ti find out how many populations have "insufficient data" on p bears there "ifn" ya dont believe me.

In fact this years surveys will show NO declining populations at all im willing to bet.

I can google you up another article im surprised you didnt post- the one that says the polar bears are starving so bad they eat their young. MMMMM ok,, but then why doe sows chase off the males after cubbing even here in Kneevader? pfffftt....


As far as hybridization- if worse comes to worse and the P bears loose their ice, they WILL return to being BROWN BEARS from whence they came. They will feed on salmon instead of seals. I worked for Mike Boyce, at Animal artistry in reno when the whole polar bear thing got started. He was instrumental in dolling out a few million or so against it all and he had direct knowledge even back then of false numbers and reporting. At that time we worked with many agencies, guides, Indians and other businesses there as satellites of his main business here in Reno. Mike has compiled more info on p bears than any researcher i know of. Hes been up there multiple times. Hes spent a month at a whack following them. OR vice-versa..


Nothing youve posted proves any of what ive said wrong. Your just buying old propaganda.





edit: Ed, at LEAST 7 of the major populations dont even have "sufficient data" to estimate a population of P bears.



Fact: they USED TO BE Coastal brown bears. Fact : they can become those again through hybridization. Fact: that will happen of we loose ALL ICE, which is,, a GUESS at this time. There may become a specie known as the Palamino Bear LMAO!

and WHY did the ice melt under CO2 conditions far less than todays???
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 29, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
Witness the transition from coal that Base and his industry have graciously provided,along with 100,000's good paying jobs. Combine that with the nearly foolproof latest generations of nuclear reactors, if placed in seismically stable areas instead of political jurisdictions.Now, the rabid enviros will resist with all their might transition to these massively CO2 reducing technologies-why? Maybe because it would partially expose the big lie underpinning their religion. Now back to the chalkboard with you, refute the ignorance.
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
Zzzzz...
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 29, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Ron, seriously, take Ed's suggestions

Go back and read the paper again, and work through the numerical arguments... you'd have a much more nuanced understanding of polar bear populations in the Davis Strait.

Maybe Chiloe can recommend a text on statistical methods used in population dynamics studies that would allow you to brush up on your math skillz...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 29, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
Mt lion,, you seem to have some obsession.

Guess what,, you dont know Rick Sumner form a fence post.. Rick deals with more environmental BS in his week up there in AK than youve probably ever delt with. He has a home FAR up in a mtn canyon in the Pah rah range of Kneevader. Has solar heated rooms, wood stove and the whole gambit.

AND,, he was climbing wild shyt before you were born. Introduced the likes of Paul Crawford to Multi pitch climbing, and wrote the FIRST comprehensive climbing guide for the greater tahoe region. Then followed that one by another two years later. Between him, Bill Todd, Greg Dexter, John Taylor, Richard Harrison, Jay Smith and many others - they put up the most extreme routes there are around here. And He opened up the region with those historically monumental guides.


As far as me, i heat with electricity..




edit: Norton,, READ what ive said.
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 29, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Ron I'm still keying his Jaguar if it shows up in Hidden Valley...so you heat with electricity how about cooking and all the other questions I asked??? Are you afraid to show you are a eco-warrior?

Werner just take it easy and stop waving the f--ing gun around...after that do what Walter tells Donny to do repeatedly...

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 29, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
Guess what,, you dont know Rick Sumner form a fence post.. Rick deals with more environmental BS in his week up there in AK than youve probably ever delt with. He has a home FAR up in a mtn canyon in the Pah rah range of Kneevader. Has solar heated rooms, wood stove and the whole gambit.

AND,, he was climbing wild shyt before you were born. Introduced the likes of Paul Crawford to Multi pitch climbing, and wrote the FIRST comprehensive climbing guide for the greater tahoe region. Then followed that one by another two years later. Between him, Bill Todd, Greg Dexter, John Taylor, Richard Harrison, Jay Smith and many others - they put up the most extreme routes there are around here. And He opened up the region with those historically monumental guides.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

Also, it snowed here in NH last weekend. The globe can't be warming if it snowed this late in the season, right?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 29, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
I have a PRIME EXAMPLE of ECO terrorism run amuck:

winter 1977 BLM horse corals Palomino valley nv.

A Sixty minutes report was aired nationally showing BLM employees abusing wild horses at the Palomino corals. "Roping and dragging them around in corals just for fun"...!!!!!!!??????


I about hit the roof at my folks place as i watched that in utter shock ,horror and disbelief that soon became certain RAGE! They asked me what was wrong and i point to the tv and say LOOK right there on the right,, thats ME!




Yes,, some eco-pudknocker had snuck a camera in and was filming myself and two other cowboys as we tried to doctor a wild stud we wanted to release with a small herd of mares. He was in need of antibiotics to clear a lung issue and vitamins. He was THE willyest stud at kicking out of a heel rope and it took quite some time - finally he layed over from exhaustion from fighting the lead rope and we JUMPED on his neck, administered the cures and he was up and trotted off 30 seconds later. He was released with a small batch of mares a week later, and did exaclty what we thought he would do with them-- Take them AWAY from urban sprawls. It was the first of many experiments being done then, but if you watched SIXTY MINUTES that night, youd think us to be total pricks unworthy of oxygen. Just the first big of MANY LIES that have been told to the public and SOLD to the public by the "causes"..


edit: Brandon,, where in that post did you see YOUR name? It was intended for mt lion, who has repeated a question posed towards me. Why your "noodling" into is is the question..



and MtLion, of course i dont litter, have picked up trash and the like just like ALL caring individuals ,, and im sure that includes BOTH Ricks here.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 29, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Ron A, of course you read those words in the report... but you didn't understand what the quantitative basis of those words meant...

...and in fact, they show a recent declining population, with concurrence from the locals...

maybe you missed that...

you did not actually "read" those studies did you Ron

instead, you ask an incredibly simplistic question that a high school kid could answer about the 10,000 year cyclical ice ages throughout earth's history and CO2

the ISSUE, Ron, is NOT about fuking polar bears, it is about the out of sequence rapid earth warming that is occurring NOW

you don't read a damn thing, you just burp out whatever the "opposite" truth is by consensus, doesn't matter what thread, just take the opposite position, as if you are a child crying out of attention, and disregard all the efforts people make to correct your flat wrong conclusions
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 29, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
No Norton it is you that seemed to stumble into the conversation here.

I have pointed out erroneous conclusions time and again in regards to P bears that youve certainly ignored in choice of Ed and others posts. Thats all thats taking place here.


Ive demonstrated many eco issues that in the past were considered indicators of the doom and gloom that turned out otherwise. Also just above demonstrated the outright lies in which they feed their causes. Mustangs? bullchyt- P bears,, bullshyt,, penguins,, bullshyt. Spotted owl,, mo bullshyt. Even the REEF fish scientists discovered they were assbackwards on their guesses about CO2.
Degaine

climber
May 29, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
The Chief wrote:
80-100 years is "relatively quickly"? Impressive.


Lead gasoline was invented and introduced in 1921, researchers in labs at Yale (or some Ivy League school) studied and proved that lead was harmful in 1924/25. Lead gasoline was banned in the US in the mid-eighties.

Not sure where you got the 80-100 years from. And I was right, it was industry that pushed to keep the harmful substance in gasoline for financial gain.

The Chief wrote:
The Goodness of the Universe will infinitely prevail.


The universe is neither good nor bad, it just is. In addition, it doesn't give a crap about you or me. The notion of prevailing is an entirely human concept.
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 29, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Ron just admit it YOU ARE A BLEEDING HEART FOR NATURE!! Like I said before if you witnessed someone "spray painting graffiti, destroying a joshua tree, or abusing an animal for pleasure you would kick the sh#t out of them".

You pick up litter--1 admission

Do you hunt and use all of an animal that you killed- 1 admission

Do you love animals -- 1 admission

Still waiting for:

Do you recycle?

Do you grow or gather any of your own food?

I predict you do both of these things but I will wait for your reply...it is only a matter of time Ron because I KNOW people like you--grew up around them actually. You love this earth and people YOU ARE A BLEEDING HEART 4 sure............
WBraun

climber
May 29, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
The universe doesn't give a crap about you or me.

Oh yes it does.

We are all part parcel of it.

So You don't care because you are an ignorant scientist and make up sh!t in your fertile brain.

There's no intelligence here.

Just stooopid opinions.

I just drank a quart of fluoride for lunch, nothing happened.

I work both sides of the fence ...... :-)

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