Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Ok, who erased one of their posts, which transferred my last post from the start of this page to the end of the last?

No it is you who is not talking sensibly. Be proactive Ed, put forward a solution to the overblown problem that doesn't destroy the economy and make environmental degradation worse.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
ED

Watch and listen. His very last point includes ALL assertions, including the "man made" C02.




Here, more specifically:

"“If you choose to make regulations about carbon dioxide, that’s OK. You as a state can do that; you have a right to do it,” Christy said. “But it’s not going to do anything about the climate."
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/feb/05/legislature-considering-delays-renewable-energy-st/


On this assertion, you pulled it outta your ass. ED!
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
All this effort on the part of three or four scientists to convince a handful of morons.

I'm really not sure who the morons are any more.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
The Chief, thanks for your answer.

DMT:
That's idiotic. Sorry its as stupid as bell ringing the 'indicator species' bullsh#t. Sh#t, yall conservatives wanted free trade and low 3rd world wages for manual labor, YOU GOT THAT AND NOW YOU WHINE WHINE WHINE.

Exactly. Those mills were being closed down before the owl, that timber was being shipped overseas for milling.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
ED

According to Christy and the others that you posted that supposedly indicated that man made C02 causes warimig, which they NEVER did, we ARE NOT wrecking anything.

It is the assertion of you and those that are on the GCC Bandwagon that make that claim.


Bottomline, it is the assertion that all this man made C02 is cause of the warming and all the weather calamities that have occurred. When in fact, none of that has been proven. None what so ever.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Dr. Hansen has a record of asserting things that are not true, his early measurements were flawed, he got up and testified before Congress based on those flawed data, he was shown to be incorrect.

I didn't see his testimony before Congress where he stated "I was wrong before, the numbers I presented were wrong, and therefore my assertions based on those numbers were incorrect"


ED

I fixed it for you.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
shipped over seas? How about floated out to sea milled on converted ships, then sent right back? All the waste going right over board too!


And No Gary,, the Mills around here were directly affected by that owl issue. Ask Frank Pendola, Gary Fife, Roy Collier or any of the other operators in the area. Ask the previous owners of the Susanville mill. The toiyabe was essentially shut down when a new ranger and management team were installed there in the mid to late eighties. They STOPPED treatments of stands and compartments over any and all issues thrown their way. They stopped being pro-active with their timber THEN. And since have done nothing in the way of continued stand treatments other than a pitiful little controlled burn one or twice a year to the tune of a hundred acres. It was also then that the foresters in the USFS left that service for private industry as the regulation had all but made their jobs impossible.

When you see those miles and miles of dead standing trees in pictures or news reports, those ARE the stands that were affected most by those hooter groups and others. As thirty years prior, they were being told to either treat them or loose them.. Forests have but three ways to go. Wildfire, logging or insects and disease. AND i should add, the loss of these stands to insects and disease while not just being a complete waste of resource ALSO contributes to rising CO2 levels as the bio mass, and stems per acre are reduced- removing natural scrubbers of CO2..





edit: Bruce you do have some points and in fact you do tell PART of the picture, but not all. What drove many contractors out of the woods? Well that was regulation, stem SIZE, stands offered or NOT offered were large contributing factors.

As for the reason you have so much beetle kill IS a LACK of treatment to those stands that reached the zone of immanent mortality and since logging and wildfire has been essentially removed, insects and disease are the drivers. Beetles attack STRESSED trees. Too many stems per acre are usually the culprit.


Fence off a stand, call it a wilderness area and then watch as that stands begins to die. Thats what weve been doing for decades now.

Did you know the Yellowstone fire was actually STEERED to the park boundary? Yes That fire started outside the park where machinery of all manner could be used, yet the fire was flanked ONLY and steered to the park boundary where machinery wasnt allowed and by golly they LOST the control of that fire. One BRAVE incident commander decided THEN was THE opportunity to actually help Yellowstone. His reward was swift re-assignment demotions and the like. All the eco groups were bawling like raped sheep over the "LOSS" of the great park.. Until they rolled forward a year or three and watched species of flora that hadnt been seen in decades come back in strength. Ol Jellystone is just fine- as the animals also returned to flourish there. So WHY was that poor incident commander used as a scape goat? Politics, eco groups and propaganda, that is why.,.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
No, i am not saying that. Manmade activity only contributes 3% of the trace gas Co2 to the relatively thin atmosphere. What i am saying is;if their is a possibility to placate your sides insane phobias what can you offer that doesn't destroy the economy and really degrade the environment that the rest of the rational population must live in?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Rick

These pro GCC/AGW people could give a ratass about the global economy. That is their primary underlying intent.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Hot off the presses.

The story is about the the impending threat of GCC. But this fact is quietly included in the fatalistic propaganda. It isn't CC that is currently doing the damage. Nope. Not atal.

"Climate change is not the biggest threat, yet," Foden told Reuters in a telephone interview. Loss of habitats driven by a rising human population, over-exploitation and invasive species are now the main causes of extinctions, the study said.

http://news.yahoo.com/many-thriving-species-risk-climate-change-study-114232447.html
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
Warming climate Bruce? Im sorry but DRYING would be more appropriate as a 1 or 2 degree change doesnt equate to death in regards to Timber or its over all health. Drying on the other hand most certainly will. BUT untreated stems per acre will ensure insect and disease before and above all other factors. Encroachment of invasive and unnatural species also take place in these over crowded untreated stands. Tolerant and intolerant species appear where they shouldnt and reduce the reproduction of the "natural" species of a stand as well adding to the stress levels of stands in general. As small beetle infestations begin to spread, so does the surrounding stress levels of adjacent timber. Dead wood acts as a sponge and evaporation system in comparison to its living neighbors. Its that "mono culture" thing i mentioned up thread..And where you have that , the beetles run rampant..Its a fixable problem, if GOVT allows it..
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
MONOLITH

We care about those things too, Chief. Can you multitask?

The solutions for one problem often help others because they are linked.


Bulshet. What is your proposal to cease the proliferation of mankind in general that is obviously impeding into the habitat of so many other species on this planet. This is the real time issue now. It is the primary cause NOW of the extinction of this species.

This has been going on for the past 4-5 decades. And nothing is done. But you Whitecoats insist we do things to prevent something that "may" happen. All the while shet is going down all around you. Just another example of the propaganda of your GCC cause/agenda/ideology.

EDIT

Not one solution from any of you here for the real time issue. Where do you put all the humans that you are supposedly going to save from GCC. Where?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
Well Chief, that article gets to the crux of the problem In my mind the solution to all is only to be found in technology. If the scientific community could get their heads out of the rearends of the corrupt competing forces of corporate/government factions and invent, innovate, create instead of study to further greed's agenda then we could have a bright future. If they can't and scientific hijacking continues then we are all in for misery.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
In your case Bruce, it is obvious that your family was feeding you "shrooms" daily as a baby/ I say they did so well into your young adult years.


Well Chief, that article gets to the crux of the problem In my mind the solution to all is only to be found in technology. If the scientific community could get their heads out of the rearends of the corrupt competing forces of corporate/government factions and invent, innovate, create instead of study to further greed's agenda then we could have a bright future. If they can't and scientific hijacking continues then we are all in for misery.

I have been singing that all along Rick. But none of these GCC PhD's look at it that way. They are too busy proliferating their agenda.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
Bruce,, tell me what i said to be in error.

But as for my work,, im exposed to Bondo, epoxies, laquer fumes, acrylic paints of all species, GLUES, about seven major acids in my tanning solutions, Borax dust, CANCER CAUSING polyurethane foams, White gas fumes, and cancer causing vermiculites and a host of natural afflictions such as avian flus, swine flus ,tick fevers and other parasitic situations.. The EPA turns away from shops like mine - they RUN from them actually! Their minds simply cant process it all.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
Ot, but doing a quick review I found nothing that states that spotted owls prefer anything but mature and old growth forests. I call bs.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
ED

however, the USGov seemed to have gone on a wild fire suppression bent after WWII, very successfully preserving those "resources" for commercial development, and causing a situation now that is hard to back away from.

And what situ is that ED?


Well MONOLITH. What is your plan to cease the proliferation of HUMANS throughout this planet after you fix the climate? Better yet, what are your plans now as to where to put all the humans that are impeding into so many species habitats.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Ed, 100% correct about wildfires being a PRIMARY issue starting around the the early 1900s.

We removed them from the natural equation not knowing the long term affects. But now over a hundred years later, those fuel loads in any given compartment are far and above what they were naturally and burn at rates far above those natural fires of the past, scorching the earth and changing the micro climates. Then invasive species become the climax and change the character of that land for a long time to come. Many species of flora actually rely upon wildfire to reproduce, such as bitter brush, an important food source for our deer out west.


So now, the USFS engages in TINY little controlled burns to the tune of a hundred acre target per year, which in reality isnt even a drop in the bucket.. No longer is wildfire a viable tool in these times of over loaded stands. So we will either use logging, and other harvest methods, or watch as insect and disease takes that resource. And as it does, it will NOT naturally replace itself either, as those micro climates change dry out or are burned beyond recoveries.



and Dirt,, please do more than search a few bird sites for info about the spotted hooter. They PREFER timber clear cuts to nest in and hunt. It has been thoroughly documented. Make yur search more specific..;-) LOTS of wild life actually hangs in those evil clear cut units.. Youd be surprised.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 13, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
that your house would be toast if a wild fire roared through your town and they sat and let it happen, The Chief...

So are you now implying that it was man's intervention on the natural cycle of things, NOT GCC that is the primary factor in the recent rash of "Super Fires".

Wasn't that based on the USFS (Gov't) Biologist (scientist) perceptions of how things need to be done?



BTW: My house would not be toast if a wild fire roared. Not much fuel to burn where I reside. Lots of dirt and rock. Maybe 20-30% sage etc. The rest, dirt and rock.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
The Chief shits himself again:


Unlike you and others here, I could give a flying ratass what eco liberal freaks such as yourself, or anyone else for that matter, think of me.


Looks like The Chief got a little annoyed when I called him on his BS.

@ The Chief: Ponder this for a moment, I couldn't care less what other people think of you. I'm just pointing out what is obvious to most people who care to read the gibberish you write--simply that you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but think that if you yell it loud enough, folks will listen.

People play with you like they play with cats using a laser. They point it here, and see you run. Then there, and see you bounce over there. For them it's amusing to see you run around, thinking you're actually doing something valuable. But to those with the lasers, you're just a dumb cat who can't tell the difference between a light spot and something of real value.

Now go stick your finger in the lake again, it must be getting dry by now.
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