Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
it was the NOVA special dingus posted yesterday.

They were quite specific in that section. Satellites can now record with in 1/2" of accuracy the oceans bottoms no matter now deep. They have observed these GROWING mountains below the surface. This is not conjecture, opinion or anything else. It is simple physics. Take a glass of water that is full to the brim, and drop a golf ball in it. The level WILL overflow the glass. That is known a displacement. Are u telling me oceanic volcanoes DONT displace water?
raymond phule

climber
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
Why don't you try to find som informations about the quantitive effect of those two phenomena if you are interested? It is not like you are going to care about any answer anyway.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
By the way Plankton requires CO2 to reproduce.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
The temperature dropped to 58 degrees last night at my house. Obvious sign that the planet is not warming.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
The ocean floors are also sinking too, factor that in Watson! OMG!!!!!1111

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 30, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
The point is, Kelly, that with the dizzying array of scientific papers out there, many contradicting the interpretations of others, it is difficult if not impossible to separate fact from fiction in this CAGW baloney. So you might as well get your information from the raggiest of rags if it is merit you judge by. Did you guys know that the all time record U.S. high and low temperature spells happened in 1936? Chiloe, Antarctica is an interesting example of contradicting interpretations. Some say the ice mass is decreasing but the majority say it is increasing, it's just that you discount the consensus on this. Bias?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
Chiloe, Antarctica is an interesting example of contradicting interpretations. Some say the ice mass is decreasing but the majority say it is increasing, it's just that you discount the consensus on this.

OK, I'll keep asking. "The majority say it is increasing," the "consensus," who feeds you these claims? If you had any awareness of current research yourself, you would never have declared "there is no doubt about that", nonsense you just had to walk back into this new revised "majority say" claim (which is nonsense too). So who's feeding you these talking points you're so eager to believe, then jump along to the next when someone points out they are wrong?

Bias?

No, the explanation is simpler. I cited a recent Science article because as a member of the AAAS I have a subscription to Science, it arrives in my mail every week. (Same reason I often quote EOS, I belong to AGU so EOS arrives each week too.) Science is the leading interdisciplinary journal, and with 46 authors including the one you cited earlier, I figured that article probably is state of the art.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Rick,, they didnt believe the Indian and other guides up there when those guides tried to tell them about the polar bear conditions ten yeas ago.


Now it is known that those bears were listed endangered over THEORIES about GW in the future.

Which is why countries like Canada DIDNT buy that..

Not surprised the CC crowd doesnt believe those that live up there. Its inconvenient for this "theories"..
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Not surprised the CC crowd doesnt believe those that live up there. Its inconvenient for this "theories"..

I guess by "CC crowd" Ron means scientists, but of course they are very much interested in what "those that live up there" have to say. In fact that's a significant area of research, such as this book by Igor Krupnik.



ARCUS has published a collection of ten papers describing contemporary efforts to document indigenous knowledge of environmental change in the Arctic. Compiled and edited by Igor Krupnik and Dyanna Jolly, "The Earth is Faster Now: Indigenous Observations of Arctic Environmental Change" is available from ARCUS for $25 U.S.This publication was supported by the NSF Arctic Social Sciences Program with additional support for increased distribution provided by the Arctic Studies Center, Smithsonian Institution.

The Earth is Faster Now reviews major individual studies on indigenous knowledge and climate change undertaken during the past few years, primarily in North America. The text is accompanied by local observations, quotations from interviews, personal observations, illustrations, and photographs. Contributors include well- known academic researchers and Native people from Canada, Finland, and the United States. The publication is designed to be useful to both researchers and communities as a tool for networking and communication.

http://www.arcus.org/publications/eifn
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
Yeah Ron, they baffle each other with their state of the art b.s., keeping their biased faces glued to their subscriptions like that rag Science while totally ignoring the very real lines of contradictory evidence. Quite sad it is, the politicalization and tunnel vision the "consensus science" is in this field. The lost boys-a generation of enviromental scientists our universities turned out instead of the hard sciences. Everything anthropogenic-what a crock.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Having mentioned EOS just upthread reminded me that I hadn't read the most recent issue (June 25). And what do you know, they have an Antarctic piece by Colin Schultz, summarizing new research in Geophysical Research Letters (emphasis added):

Extreme value analysis unveils dramatic Antarctic warming

Since the late 1940s the average temperature of the coldest days on the Antarctic Peninsula has soared by 14°C. Through a novel analysis of daily temperature records collected at the peninsula’s Vernadsky Research Base, Frankze identified that the strong warming trend has affected the coldest 5% of days on the Antarctic Peninsula over the course of the observational period, from 1947 to 2011.
....
Through a multivariate analysis the author then assessed how the trend in cold extreme temperatures aligned with trends in solar activity, ozone, atmospheric carbon dioxide, and aerosols. He found that the temperature trend aligned best with the rising trend in atmospheric carbon dioxide. The research suggests that climate change can have a large and disproportionate effect on the occurrence of temperature extremes. (Geophysical Research Letters, doi:10.1002/ grl.50301,2013)


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013EO260011/abstract
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
well,Rick,, ive got about 700 baggies in which over trapped my CO2 output. Now i just have to figure out how to sell my carbons for credit!

Surely we can get in on the gravy line here lol!
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
Quite sad it is, the politicalization and tunnel vision the "consensus science" is in this field.

Whoa, are you walking back your declaration that there is a "consensus" that Antarctica is gaining mass, already? That was fast!
raymond phule

climber
Jun 30, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
So the problem is now that the climate scientist contradics themselves? That not all papers came to the exact same conclusions?

I thought the problem where that the climate scientist didn't think for them selves and just followed a concensus so they could get more founding.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
I understand the methane levels to be quite high around the YOS bathrooms.
The Carbon tax for usage in the future shall be 7.95 for a number 2..I suggest shyting conservatively.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
The lost boys-a generation of enviromental scientists our universities turned out instead of the hard sciences. Everything anthropogenic-what a crock.

So, here is the full list of authors for that Science paper you just declared was a crock. Which of these people do you reckon has less science training than you do, Rick?

Andrew Shepherd1,*,
Erik R. Ivins2,*,
Geruo A3,
Valentina R. Barletta4,
Mike J. Bentley5,
Srinivas Bettadpur6,
Kate H. Briggs1,
David H. Bromwich7,
René Forsberg4,
Natalia Galin8,
Martin Horwath9,
Stan Jacobs10,
Ian Joughin11,
Matt A. King12,27,
Jan T. M. Lenaerts13,
Jilu Li14,
Stefan R. M. Ligtenberg13,
Adrian Luckman15,
Scott B. Luthcke16,
Malcolm McMillan1,
Rakia Meister8,
Glenn Milne17,
Jeremie Mouginot18,
Alan Muir8,
Julien P. Nicolas7,
John Paden14,
Antony J. Payne19,
Hamish Pritchard20,
Eric Rignot18,2,
Helmut Rott21,
Louise Sandberg Sørensen4,
Ted A. Scambos22,
Bernd Scheuchl18,
Ernst J. O. Schrama23,
Ben Smith11,
Aud V. Sundal1,
Jan H. van Angelen13,
Willem J. van de Berg13,
Michiel R. van den Broeke13,
David G. Vaughan20,
Isabella Velicogna18,2,
John Wahr3,
Pippa L. Whitehouse5,
Duncan J. Wingham8,
Donghui Yi24,
Duncan Young25,
H. Jay Zwally26

Author Affiliations

1School of Earth and Environment, University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, UK.
2Jet Propulsion Laboratory, M/S 300-233, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109, USA.
3Department of Physics, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80309–0390, USA.
4Geodynamics Department, Technical University of Denmark, DTU SPACE, National Space Institute, Elektrovej, Building 327, DK-2800 Kgs. Lyngby, Denmark.
5Department of Geography, Durham University, South Road, Durham DH1 3LE, UK.
6Center for Space Research, University of Texas at Austin, 3925 West Braker Lane, Suite 200, Austin, TX 78759–5321, USA.
7Polar Meteorology Group, Byrd Polar Research Center, and Atmospheric Sciences Program, Department of Geography, The Ohio State University, 1090 Carmack Road, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.
8Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling, Department of Earth Sciences, University College London, London WC1E 6BT, UK.
9Institut für Astronomische und Physikalische Geodäsie, Technische Universität München, Arcisstraße 21, 80333 München, Germany.
10Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory (LDEO), 205 Oceanography, 61 Route 9W - Post Office Box 1000, Palisades, NY 10964, USA.
11Polar Science Center, Applied Physics Laboratory, University of Washington, 1013 NE 40th Street, Seattle, WA 98105–6698, USA.
12School of Civil Engineering and Geosciences, Cassie Building, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 7RU, UK.
13Utrecht University, Institute for Marine and Atmospheric Research, Princetonplein 5, Utrecht, Netherlands.
14Center for Remote Sensing of Ice Sheets, University of Kansas, Nichols Hall, 2335 Irving Hill Road, Lawrence, KS 66045, USA.
15Department of Geography, College of Science, Swansea University, Singleton Park, Swansea SA2 8PP, UK.
16National Aeronautical and Space Administration (NASA) Goddard Space Flight Center, Planetary Geodynamics Laboratory, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA.
17Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario K1N 6N5, Canada.
18Department of Earth System Science, University of California, 3226 Croul Hall, Irvine, CA 92697–3100, USA.
19School of Geographical Sciences, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1SS, UK.
20British Antarctic Survey, High Cross, Madingley Road, Cambridge CB3 0ET, UK.
21Institute of Meteorology and Geophysics, University of Innsbruck, Innsbruck, Austria.
22National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder, CO 80309, USA.
23Delft University of Technology, Faculty of Aerospace Engineering, Kluyverweg 1, 2629 HS Delft, Netherlands.
24SGT Incorporated, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Cryospheric Sciences Laboratory, Code 615 Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA.
25Institute for Geophysics, University of Texas, Austin, TX 78759, USA.
26NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Cryospheric Sciences Laboratory, Code 615 Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA.
27School of Geography and Environmental Studies, University of Tasmania, Hobart 7001, Australia.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 30, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
We could start with just the first two. Rick, are these your "lost boys-a generation of enviromental scientists our universities turned out instead of the hard sciences"?

Prof. Andrew Shepherd
Professor of Earth Observation
University of Leeds
Andrew Shepherd uses satellites to study physical processes of Earth's climate. He is a member of the NERC National Centre for Earth Observation, coordinator of the European Space Agency VECTRA InSAR consortium, and a contributing author of the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Andrew's main contributions to science have involved remote observations of the cryosphere, with particular emphasis on the quantitative techniques of radar interferometry and radar altimetry. He has also worked on studies of arid land degradation using satellite infrared radiometry and models of atmospheric radiative transfer, and he has led satellite validation campaigns in Europe, Africa, and Antarctica. His currently funded research includes investigations of the stability of the Larsen Ice Shelf in Antarctica, developing methods to retrieve elevation in regions of rugged terrain using the CryoSat-2 interferometric altimeter, estimates of the sea level contribution due to Antarctica and Greenland, and monitoring changes in Earth's glaciers and ice caps.

http://www.see.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.shepherd

Erik Ivins
Group Supervisor
Principal Scientist
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Education
. BSc in Physics, Calif. Polytechnic Univ. Pomona (1972)
. MSc in Geophysics & Planetary Physics, UCLA, Los Angeles (1976)
. PhD in Earth Sciences, USC, Los Angeles (1995)
Research Interests
. Elastic and viscous flow of the solid earth's deformation field using advanced modeling techniques
. Postseismic relaxation and adjustment processes
. Use of time-variable space gravity, GPS and altimetry for monitoring cryospheric change, postglacial rebound and sea level change

http://science.jpl.nasa.gov/people/Ivins/
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jun 30, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
Nobody has a monopoly on what is a very hard problem, but I don’t have much patience for anyone who denies that this challenge is real. We don’t have time for a meeting of the Flat Earth Society. Sticking your head in the sand might make you feel safer, but it’s not going to protect you from the coming storm. And ultimately, we will be judged as a people, and as a society, and as a country on where we go from here.

And someday, our children, and our children’s children, will look at us in the eye and they'll ask us, did we do all that we could when we had the chance to deal with this problem and leave them a cleaner, safer, more stable world? And I want to be able to say, yes, we did. Don’t you want that?

Barack Obama
June 25, 2013
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-25/-we-need-to-act-transcript-of-obama-s-climate-change-speech.html
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 30, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
"Hi,, were from the GOVT and were here to help!"



McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 30, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
"Hi,, were from the GOVT and were here to help!"

It sure sounds like you worked for the Government Ron. How can you buy into that sh#t? We have all lived and grown up with a government that is basically Socialist yet people like you can't seem to own up to that. What's that all about? We all want to believe we are all independent tough cavemen but that's not the truth. We might be tough but it ends there. You are just buying into bullshit - the same bullshit they fed to Reagan.
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