Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 3, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
Ed, you left out his 'command error' account. It's his tactical fall back position.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 4, 2013 - 08:11am PT
That was a little weird Ed..

Actually, it's sort of cool. I can't be the only one wondering how his/her own contribution would look through this lens. Is it handmade or quick now?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:37am PT
NO ONE denies climate changes,,

Ah we're back on STEP TWO!!!!111111111

(even if there IS climate change humans aren't causing it...)

NO ONE denies the Three Step Shuffle.

DMT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:38am PT
goes on unexplained

No, it doesn't. You're not even trying to read, are you? Just repeating yourself loudly.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:42am PT
you cant tell a .09 degree of difference on yur face any day.

.09 Rong? Do you mean 0.9? Orders of magnitude matter. You have been corrected on that several times, and you seem to insist on screwing it up every time. Why?

And wtf does the sensitivity of one's face have to do with mean global temperatures?

YOU SAID 7 AND 1/2 APPLES. I DON'T SEE ANY HALF APPLES.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
Ron, multiple choice:

What happens when you increase the temperature of melting ice by 0.9 degree Celsius?

A) The ice melts twice as fast
B) The ice refreezes
C) It is physically impossible to increase the temperature of melting ice
D) I don't see any half apples
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 4, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
I am not sorry foes, i will not dance to your tune, or participate by the rules of your well practiced system of personal destruction. You are not my audience, just the means to reach them. Dr. F moved my original post to this thread from another. The inevitable attacks ensued, i gave back almost as good as i got. Many months ago declaring i am going to win this little argument. I believe it was Norton who requested me to show what I've got. My response; I'm not going in blind like Custer to be massacred. No, the battlefield must be carefully surveyed, all intelligence gathered, the enemy probed, this could take years.

There are deep troubles in the CAGW cult, not the least of which is that the weather is not cooperating. One spectacular prediction after another has failed- hundreds of millions were already supposed to have died from heat that supposedly should have risen in tandem with atmospheric CO2 content, this hasn't happened the limited absorption bandwidth of the mythical molecule has been saturated and the higher frequency heat radiation can't reradiate downwards but instead is conducting upwards out of the atmosphere towards the cold of space-now there is some physics in need of reevaluation and reinterpretation of the Stephan-Boltzmann law used as a construct to artificially and unsatisfactorily close Maxwell's equations. The Sea levels were met to rise several feet by now, according to the likes of Gore and Hansen, swamping low lying island nations such as The Maldives and Tuvulu Islands-this hasn't happened, in fact studies show that 87% of the Tuvlu's are stable or rising. The Poles melting were meant to have accelerated with an ice free Arctic already and whole Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets sliding off into the Sea- this hasn't happened, instead the Antarctic, contrary to prediction, is cooling and ice mass, especially in sea ice extent, is growing. The Arctic is at the end of warm cycles of the PDO and NAO, last year a severe Arctic cyclone broke up the ice in August and compacted it into restricted areas, it did not all melt, this year above 80 degrees north has been unusually cold and the storms of 2012 have not yet repeated with the result being that sea ice extent is recovering. Greenland is right back to normal temperatures without the surface melt the compliant media relentlessly hyped in 2012. Tornado's were meant to be more frequent and severe, droughts deepening and permanent, Hurricanes increasing in frequency and severity. Well it has been one of the quietest years for Tornado's in years, in fact discounting the increase of developed areas and the consequent property and life destruction of a relative few outbreaks, the frequency of Tornado's is decreasing compared to early decades of the 20th century. The drought's in the lower Midwest and southwest seems to have been drenched in repeated torrential downpours this year. Hurricane season has been unusually quiet for nearly a decade, there hasn't been a category four or larger hurricane make landfall in the U.S. since Katrina. The world over, scientists are acknowledging that the global mean average temperature ( if there could ever be such a thing) has plateaued and by many accounts is heading downwards. I could go on and on.

There are deep problems in the IPCC process and it's continued existence is in question as one country after another has pulled out of Kyoto and many others are demanding rewrites of AR5. Scientists are in open revolt, many previously high profile CAGW proponents have jumped ship-look at Judith Curry's story. The trickle of papers that the CAGW industry previously did their best to limit has turned into a torrent. Every aspect of the theory is being challenged, every region's proxy data reconstruction being reevaluated. The little ice age, medieval warm period, roman warm period are being revalidated and returning in a vengeance. The models are not getting better, the errors they exhibit in hind casting emphasized over and over, the flaws in the models predictives versus observed empirical evidence shown again and again.

Yet, our bureaucracy, our politicians, our corporate giants and ultra wealthy "intellectuals", our decreasing number of CAGW cult scientists are now engaged in a last gasp effort to impose a scheme of "necessarily skyrocketing" energy regulation and replacement by wholly inadequate "green energy" produced by not ready for prime time wind farms and solar arrays that cover thousands of square miles of land, degrade the environment and aesthetics, costs hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars and produce on an intermittent basis only 3% of our energy. This scheme, if allowed to accelerate, will not only render our remaining industry unprofitable, but will result in huge job loss and impoverish our middle class into indentured servitude.

Now is the time to turn this thing around. Even the mainstream media is waking up and beginning to acknowledge the problems and failings of climate science. There is hope for a bright future, while this debate has been raging natural evolution and market forces, despite government resistance, has resulted in new technologies in FF energy location and safe extraction to the point we now have at least a hundred year supply of clean burning natural gas ( 50% less CO2 emission and much less other real pollutants) that is naturally supplanting coal in energy generation. Our vehicles can also be fueled by NG starting with the commercial truck fleet. A new generation of nuclear technology has resulted in designs that are virtually failsafe and reprocess and reuse fuel to the point that spent fuel is only dangerous for a decade rather than thousands of years. We have much geothermal potential in this country and it is currently being expanded. The tens of billions of dollars wasted on the "prophets of Doom" singing the "gospels of doom" would be much better spent on research and development for real and viable next generation clean technology that is competitive with our current energy mix.

There is a best selling book in Germany- English language title translation of The Neglected Sun- that has become a bestseller and is waking up the population to the wrongness of the CAGW science and the dangers of the implementation of carbon taxation and shortcomings of the replacement of energy production with windmills and solar. One of its authors was previously an executive in the wind energy industry. Anyway the book will be available here in America shortly and should be quite eye opening. Any fence sitters out there that are willing to climb down on this side? If so PM me with your mailing addresses and i will buy and amazon copies to the first ten people.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Extensive review of the history of the sun and climate change science.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#312885
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
If only there were 100 years of reproducible experiments that clearly show how increased CO2 affects air temperature...
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 4, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
A readable and reality-based alternative to Rick's long rant above, this article from two days ago in the Financial Times:

What climate scientists talk about now
...
But there is one thing the final version
[of the forthcoming IPCC 5th Assessment Report] must include when it is published next month, according to Sir Bob Watson, the British scientist and climate action advocate who chaired the IPCC for nearly six years up to 2002. “I think the current Working Group I report must address in detail the slowing down in the last 10 years,” he said, adding that although the past three decades were probably the warmest in 1,000 years, “there is also no question that it would appear that the rate of change in the last decade or so is definitely slower than the previous two decades.”

“The IPCC must address this because the climate deniers are linking on to this as a reason to say we’ve got all the science wrong. So I think one of the very most important issues is indeed for them to address this issue absolutely head on.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/4084c8ee-fa36-11e2-98e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2b1z1z01m
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
Ed, I certainly don't mean to start any sh#t with you. I enjoy and respect ur posts immensely!!
It just seemed odd coming from you. But what do I know? If big brother can do it so can you as far as I'm concerned. So go for it!

The only prize to win here, is respect.


Rick, I think ur post was outstanding! My address is in the mail!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:18am PT
^^ That's why you make the bigbucks Ed.

So science has proven that the way we are burning fossil fuels is detrimental to the ozone.
is science doing working on anything to adjust what's coming out of the tailpipe? Like changing the manner inwhich we burn it, or adding something to the gastank to negate what comes out the pipe? I don't know,I'm guessing. I just wondered if we're trying to fix the problem at the root, other than going in a whole different direction. Like solar, or wind or whatever.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:27am PT

...the science is not a question of belief, it is a question of data and the organizing science, and where ever that leads is where a scientist will follow, even if that path wasn't what was expected.

^^ that is correct, but one must ask also; from wherest did the motiv come from to produce said science
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:54am PT
Thanks Blublocker. I checked my email but haven't received anything from you yet. I still have 6 books left out of my 10 book commitment so anyone else that wants to read an excellent presentation from somebody that's been on the other side feel free to pm me.

Look Ed, I wrote that post from memory in 15 minutes before I went to an open house-very good day I might add as it looks like at least we have 2 houses sold. I literally have a 2 foot pile of papers, most peer reviewed and some not, that I've downloaded and read at night. I'm not going to spend my night looking for the paper on a new treatment for the physical qualities of CO2. My wife is already complaining that I read these stupid papers until I fall asleep and don't pay enough attention to her. I think it was by a mathematician by the name of Johnson.

Anyway guys, people like Ed are very intelligent and see the world in depth at minute levels but they can't see the forest for the trees. They just lack smarts in other departments and incorrectly assume since they are surrounded by like minded people that they know all, see all, and the rest of the populace are blind idiots. Well, they're not and the range of intelligence of normal human beings is smaller than imagined. Different peoples intelligence are just manifested in different ways. Ed and Chiloe are undoubtedly good guys and mean well but they just don't get that the game is up and they are beating a dead horse for miles it can never again give. Anyway that's my take.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:39am PT
Bruce
All right you caught me with my pants down, I jus wanted a free book.
But I did think that he pointed to some holes in the ozone hole conspiracy. lOL

But realiisticly I believe there can be more contributors to global warming than jus the burning of fuels. Like, the average air temperature going into an engine is 75 deg. and the exit temp. is
over 110. And the engine runs at around 160 deg. So without having any scientific credentials
I would still say these two functions are heating up the atmosphere, thus the waters of the oceans. And all the "things" that man has created that sit on top of the earths surface that act like radiant heaters. IE cars, trains, buildings, etc. these all store heat from the suns rays and radiat it back through the earth. Then there's water. The world has a finite amount of fresh water. What has man done with that? For one, since 1800 mans population went from 1bill to 7bill. Man is 3/4 water. That's a lot of water that is no longer in the earths system acting as a coolant. Instead it's in a mans body at 98deg. Another heater. Then there's all the other billions and billions of gallons were keeping separated from the ground in our toilets, and pipes, and swimming pools, etc. all warming! We're doing a lot of things that warm the planet. That's all I'm Say'in
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:59am PT

The jet stream is wobbling because of the decrease in the temperature gradient between the North Pole and the equator.

This is another one. This could be caused by the recent huge sun flare activity we've been having. And the fact that we've (the earth) has been closer to the sun for the last 7 yrs than in a long tIme. Now we're moving away.

The climate is VERY sensitive and will continue to change. Everyday!

Let's continue to understand it and try to make provisions to keep it stable!

Cheers!!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 5, 2013 - 09:04am PT
het Happens Bruce, ED, Chiloe etal. It has since the beginning of time and even before then. Get used to it. Cus it's gonna keep happening. Regardless what your science says.

Good news!!!1111 Their science says shits gonna happen, too!

group hug!!!

DMT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Aug 5, 2013 - 09:23am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/02/opinion/a-republican-case-for-climate-action.html?_r=1&

As demonstrated on this thread ,you, all about myself,Faux Libertarians are going to have a hard time with the word "Consensus".
Let alone winning a future election.

You should be CC deniers,for you are evolving yourselves to extinction.


3%.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Aug 5, 2013 - 09:36am PT
yeah chef,misinformation,i did not get it.


"Fundamental Redneck",that will get you somewhere.I think we are going to have a season up here for those.

Caught some nice truly native brookies lately?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:12am PT
I built a fence, a deck, a climbing wall, and some other things around the house. I know for a fact someone who builds for a living could have done a better job and in less time. But I enjoyed the process and learned some things along the way. I also ask the honest opinion of every builder who sees my work so I can make potential improvements on my next project. It must suck to live in a world where your weak little ego can't handle being set straight by experts.
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