Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 8, 2013 - 08:02am PT
Well Christ if they can't predict the future with any accuracy why are they worshipped as evidence?

The better question is why do we spend time arguing the steaming piles of crap you post on here?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 08:58am PT
Perfect example of the adaption process that needs to be implemented. This type of thinking will make the difference. OH, and it comes from ENGINEERS. Not Science.

In tornado alley, building practices boost damage
In a residential neighborhood near the center of a monster tornado that struck Moore, Oklahoma last month, two partially damaged houses stand like an island among others flattened by the storm.

The walls and roofs of the buildings in a new housing development called Featherstone Addition are still upright while there is nothing left but a concrete foundation where other homes once stood nearby.

The two homes were not completely spared but are salvageable, according to David Prevatt, a civil engineer who saw them when he surveyed the damage after Moore took a direct hit from an EF5 tornado, the strongest rating.

He is convinced that the two houses survived because they were built stronger than most in Oklahoma and the rest of "tornado alley" - the region stretching from Texas to Iowa that accounts for roughly a fourth of all U.S. tornadoes.

"This notion that we cannot engineer buildings economically to withstand tornado loads is a fallacy," said Prevatt, who has studied damage from hurricanes and the devastating tornadoes in 2011 in Joplin, Missouri and Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Instead of spending billions/trillions of tax payers money in vile worthless attempts to predict the future, spend that money implementing adaption processes such as the one above. Cease building shet strctures in known tornado/hurricane zones. Cease allowing the further construction of homes/structures along the low lying shoreline. Build more reservoirs in the West to capture all the rain water. Construct Desalination Stations. Build massive Solar Farms in the Desert (not pass legislation to ban them in "Protected Areas" http://gizmodo.com/5431887/mojave-desert-solar-farm-blocked-by-senator-dianne-feinstein ).

Going on 30 years of Climate Research and nothing but fortune telling computer models that come no where near reality and continuous fatalistic words. More money. Give us more money to see what "may", "if" "can" happen in a 100 years. No solutions. Not even realistic treatments. Just like Cancer Research. Leave it to science.

Climate Science is the new Complex Big Corporation. Just another hand in the cookie jar of tax payers money that is wasted. Trash. The new modern religion. Nothing more.





pee reviewed scientific studies on climate change

Precisely. Modern Science has incorporated a checks and balances process that is worthless. Totally bias and self-serving. It reviews iternally maintaining the notion that it can only do so due to it's unmatched elite intellectual ability. 97% consensus. Infallible. Manifesting itself and telling the world it knows all. Perfect. Unless you are one of the "Elitist" DR's, you are worthless in thinking and contributing. You know nothing and are an idiot. You must follow the "Dr's guidance. The "DR" knows.

Truly amazing how history does repeat itself. The Roman Catholic Church had the exact same process and philosophy for well over a 1000 years. Still does as a matter of fact.

DR = PRIEST
Absolutely NO difference.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:31am PT
The better question is why do we spend time arguing the steaming piles of crap you post on here?
Cause you're too lazy to add The Chump to Greasemonkey?
Or is it that you can't pull yourself away from the train wreck?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:35am PT
MUTFACE.

You seriously need to change that profile pic to this.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:39am PT
In the end, he may be the most influencial of the bunch.
because he's as infectious as influencia? ;-)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Precisely. Modern Science has incorporated a checks and balances process that is worthless. Totally bias and self-serving. It reviews iternally maintaining the notion that it can only do so due to it's unmatched elite intellectual ability. 97% consensus. Infallible. Manifesting itself and telling the world it knows all. Perfect. Unless you are one of the "Elitist" DR's, you are worthless in thinking and contributing. You know nothing and are an idiot. You must follow the "Dr's guidance. The "DR" knows.

Truly amazing how history does repeat itself. The Roman Catholic Church had the exact same process and philosophy for well over a 1000 years. Still does as a matter of fact.
Absolutely NO difference.

This is where you go very wrong Chief. You seem to confuse the observation that some people treat it the same and are "true believers" with the actual fact that science was designed as well as possible as a system to avoid this very pitfall. It has been and continues to be the best system for combating "belief" as the fundamental unit of acceptable information. It's not perfect but it is much better than you seem to think.

Our current civilization would be back around the level of the 1700's without this system. In every aspect of your life you are nearly completely surrounded by the results of the scientific method. From the paint's and dyes in everything you own, to the car you drive and all it's components to the water you drink and the food you eat. The implements of Modern society are built on one thing. Good science. It is remarkable that those with no knowledge of it have such easy access to it they take it for granted when they go to walmart or post on supertopo. The ammount of physics applied in posting on this thread would take multiple PhDs just to understand well.

The things discovered and then applied are complex and difficult to obtain. The knowledge accumulated is immense. It cannot be done the way you suggest science works.

DR = PRIEST

You do not understand science. You simply beieve. You are the one guilty of what you accuse "science" of. Such a common pattern in people who slander.
WBraun

climber
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:49am PT
Our current civilization would be back around the level of the 1700's


Our current civilization is STILL in the cave man mode.

Stupid modern scientists have turned civilization backwards in the last few hundred years.

Do to being under the strict clutches of the illusionary energy.

Stupid simpletons only believe technology is what drives civilizations.

This one came from above the fence ........
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:51am PT
In a way you are right Werner. People don't seem to have changed just the tools they have at hand.

It gives us both more power to destroy and more power to fix or heal. But the will and wisdom to make the right choices.. not so much.
WBraun

climber
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
must try to see the world from Werner perspective

Wrong and completely wrong.

You need to see it from truth itself.

Not from what the Chief says, not from what the scientist says, and not from what I say ......
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Long before we ever have the power to destroy this beautiful Earth we will kill each other in the struggle for supremacy of ideology. World war 111 could be right around the corner and we still believe we have the luxury for our science to use a significant portion of the fruits of the citizens labors to create toy models of reality to attempt to scare the people into compliance with one of ideologies that is the root of the problem.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
I doubt we will ever have the ability to destoy the earth. Death Star technology seems a long way off. I don't even think we have the technology to erase the human race. Could be wrong about that. But humans are a scrappy and survival prone species.

We do currently have the ability to make the world very difficult for 8 Billion people to live on it. We are rapidly changing the climate and ecosystems modern civilization is built on an unintentional but necessarily symbiotic relationship with. When it comes to squandering of resources the banking system already ate up a couple hundred trillion recently. SO I'm not so worried about a few trillion spent on the research and construction work needed to determine what needs doing and doing it.

At least the few trillion spent on that would actually go to a lot more people for the work they do. Scientists, engineers, Construction workers, Tool, instrument and equipment manufacturers, Transportation and such. I'm not quite so big on hedge fund managers needs.

Honest question here. I am confused about one thing Rick. What ideology do you think climate science is the tool of and being used to scare us into adopting or compliance with?

The evidence I have seen is that the biggest and most wealthy interests in the history of the world such as oil and banking companies are the ones directly contributing millions of dollars to the misinformation campaign against the AGW body of knowledge.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Long before we ever have the power to destroy this beautiful Earth we will kill each other in the struggle for supremacy of ideology. World war 111 could be right around the corner and we still believe we have the luxury for our science to use a significant portion of the fruits of the citizens labors to create toy models of reality to attempt to scare the people into compliance with one of ideologies that is the root of the problem.

IMO this nails the taco-climate deniers central argument:

self-loathing of humanity.

Peel back the arguments, dig to the core, and you will find hated seething there.

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Pretty obvious Derek. Communism, or more precisely an aritocratic semi dictatorship under the cloak of communism. First the politicians try to peacefully have the citizens give up their freedoms, one by one, in the interest of safety, security, equal opportunity, or in this modern era enviromental conscience. This only works so far before the citizenry wake up and revolt, then with new ruling ideology spread throughout the bureacracy, government, armed forces, the final transition is accomplished at the point of a gun. The vast majority of the believers, who lend the scheme its crucial initial legitamacy, then find themselves living a miserable life of impoverished servitude. This system has been established and failed many times in the 20th century.In the end result it is never good for the people or the planets enviroment.


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Hmm I'd say that is the type of system we currently live in. You know my thoughts on our supposed democracy. The Wealthy elite does not have perfect control but they gain more every year it seems. What I find most interesting is that these very orgoanizations are currently the ones who spend the millions against research and developement regarding Global warming. They are the ones funding the PR backlash against science. Perhaps we are both correct as undoubtedly there is more than one strategy of the power hungry at play. However science is a tough horse to rein in due to it's adherance to one basic principle. Evidence. Also the free disemmination of gathered information. Dangerous thing for the power hungry and one of the reasons it has always been one of the first target of dictators .. religious or otherwise.

Perhaps later I'll document the the pathway of the flow of money later.

I suspect you and I have similar concerns but different view as to the source of the tyranny.

Anyway I gotta go do a quick job and then kayaking. Catch ya later.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
gonna be 100 here today.. Global warming has struck-- but will last only two days - back into the 80s next week.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Yeah Derek, we are pretty far down the road already.

Just in time Ron, a little localized global cooling.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
You are a good to excellent writer Ed. Most always clear and concise. What you have to say is understandable-above all else you seek to defend the scientific community. This is understandable, but i think you would be much for the better to try to convince your brethren in "the community" to switch from studies seeking scientific understanding of an impossibly chaotic system to studies for scientific applications to benefit all. It is time to roll out product, not to just endlessly consume the product of the peoples labor.

I've read an article recently that claims their has been a distinct increase in the greening of our planet, as per satellite imagery, especially in areas previously to arid to support much plant life without increased CO2 levels. I'll try to dig it up later.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
That is a good start, good quality regional predictions are crucial for economies and the peoples welfare. Now what about that Fusion that is always 30 years out, or convincing the public about the near fail safe nature of the new generations of nuclear fission reactors, or storage systems for solar and wind energy to allow continuous generation,or space travel with colonization, etc. etc. Their is a whole universe of practical science to pursue that could render our present irrational fears as a funny memory of mass hysteria from the past. You guys need to get to work.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
What ideology do you think climate science is the tool of and being used to scare us into adopting or compliance with?

Just another modern religion. Nothing more. Show me where the Roman Catholic Church and Climate Science differ when it comes to checks and balances. Both done internally. Disallowing any outside entity to review/inspect. None. The excuse, no one knows our process better than we do.

The Climate Science "peer review" process is a joke. Self preservation at best. Akin to the Mob doing it's own quality control and then telling the people that they are taking care of the future interests of the neighborhood. Just make sure you pay up every Friday or else. Sheer madness at best. "Give me your money please."


You guys need to get to work.

That's for damn sure. They ain't got shet done in over 40 years. Hansen just retired fat and happy. WTF did he accomplish other than create the hysteria that governs this issue. His (GISS) models are the worst and most deceptive. Coming NO where near the reality of today. Not even close. Perpetuating the fear and fatalism of it all. The King of the scam. Sharing Happy Hour in the Bahama's with good old Al Gore. Laughing their asses off at all the sheep. HA HA HA. Comparing their off shore bank accounts. Cha Ching Cha Ching.


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Yeah

My 9.9 baud modem dial up takes an hour!
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