Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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raymond phule

climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Thanks for the link I didn't know about that article.

The rest is the same old the chief "logic"

"Then why has the EU thrown that option out the door due to their piss poor performance."

A non answer to what I said and a sentence that has nothing to do with your link. In what why have EU thrown that option out of the door and where can I find that information in your link?

I doubt that you know it but there is actually quite a lot of wind energy in Europe today with I believe Germany, Spain and Denmark in the top. I am not sure how far the UK projects are on the way but they have made decision of building many very large of shore wind farms.

Do you just make up thing when you write? (rethorical question of course)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson



All wind turbin kills.  Countless species here.
All wind turbin kills. Countless species here.
Credit: Ron Anderson


Above is your "CLEAN ENERGY" wind turbines at work. Nary a damm thing clean about them.
raymond phule

climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Ron, you claim that you know a lot about bears, owls and trees so I guess that you also know a lot about birds. Cant you find some information about birds death from for example power lines and high rise buildings and compare those numbers with bird deaths from wind turbines?

You know using numbers and actual information instead of pictures?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Why dont you go ahead and research that. Yes power lines and windows take out many birds each year just as cars do. So in that vein the wind turbines are as "Clean" as a fossil fuel guzzling 4wd vehicle.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
According to Anderson logic, the birds will evolve and 'party' in other areas, just like da polar bears will 'party' with da brown bears when their ice is gone.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
Major difference being we WONT put up large windmills whose blades nearly reach the ground to chop them bears to pieces...


windmills ARE NOT CLEAN ENERGY.. An irrefutable point. So sayeth the avian world.
raymond phule

climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2013/04/wind-farms-and-birds

here is some. Note the comparison at the end.
raymond phule

climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 04:04pm PT

Major difference being we WONT put up large windmills whose blades nearly reach the ground to chop them bears to pieces...

But that is the chiefs logic. Polute as much as you like, the result doesn't matter. Try to get rid of some polution and the bad results are very very important.



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
and? Let me tell you something about the laws.. YOU get caught killing ONE Eagle and the fines will run you into the thousands, and even possible jail time.

WE as climbers have to put up with closures due to birds of prey nesting, but the windmills can alter the paths of migrations for countless species while chopping them up.?? really?


So in the name of "clean energy" added fatalities of our fauna are simply OK? Really?


WE arent even allowed to posses so much as a raptor feather legally. We arent allowed to touch them when found dead in the field LEGALLY.
These turbines break more felony class laws daily than anyone person would ever get away with.


If I as a taxidermist was caught with ONE DAYS kill from Altmont windmills, i would be fined in the six digit figures and would go to jail for 20 years.

raymond phule

climber
Jun 27, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
But Ron, all our energy sources interacts with the nature in often bad ways. Coal polute the air and release co2, hydro power destroyes rivers and river valleys, nuclear results in nuclear waste and bad conditions in the mines, etc.

It is just stupid to critize on method for power production when all are bad in some way without comparing them to each other.

As I said before. This thread really need some new deniers. The level of those we have are just to low.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jun 27, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
So many tangential posts that fail to see potential improvements.

I and others have already listed lots of ways to reduce GHGs and am not going to repeat. You can easily look these up or your own research.

Diesel is priced according to supply and demand. It has far more energy content than gasoline so is worth more if enough engines use it.

Failure rates are not a huge problem and will fall on the investors. These power sources are still evolving and continuing to improve.
Nuclear and coal and tar sands have never solved their problems, which costs all of us.

In my opinion, carbon Tax would be mostly be offset by a reduction in income taxes, so it is revenue neutral. A couple billion in funding green energy is nothing. The cost of auto fuel in this country should be around what it is in Europe, to recover all the numerous external costs.

The USA has spent about the equivalent of $10 trillion dollars over the past 50 years on added defense/security/war costs due to chasing foreign oil, not counting the cost of the oil itself.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Ed, of course the numbers arent anywhere near roadkills. But if windmills keep popping up, that comparison will become quite closer. And not just numbers, but the species windmills affect is also a bit alarming, such as Eagles and other large raptors in particular. Buzzards that suffer from lousy front vision also are susceptible to the turbines. Much $$$ has been invested in the science of the Eagles in particular resulting in chemical bans and other legislation. But those windmills are getting a free pass due to being "green" things. They are neither green nor clean. A sight to make one scream. Out of a psy-fi pic, kinda makes ya sick.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Wow, that bird issue sounds serious! Until you look at the numbers...




But Rong is right... wind is horrible... stick with fossil fuels...

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Altamont is a special case in terms of bird deaths. It sits smack dab in the middle of the Pacific flyway at a point where birds (and humans and air) enter and exit the Great Valley.

Other California wind farms such as those in the Tehachapi and Palm Springs, do no suffer anywhere near the number of bird deaths.

That doesn't excuse the carnage at Altamont, but it does explain it better.

But of course the entire industry is painted with the same broad brush from the same ole guy who dismisses a body of science based on the political outcome of spotted owls (which have zero to do with the climate change discussion to begin with).

the bird kill dialogue is a sleight of hand. Pay it no mind.

Altamont wind farmers are responsible for most of the bird deaths. Hold responsible THEM and the politicians that allowed them to proliferate, but don't paint the entire industry as being on par with Altamont. Its just not true.

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
that graph from 2002 is well how should a say,,,BS>? No doubt sponsored by Slice & Dice Turbine mfg ltd..


Dingus, every country the turbines have sprung up are seeing the same results.


They are NOT clean nor green. That was/is my point. But there are those here that will argue this strictly because i brought it up LMAO!


and Wes,, ill bet that pelican LIVED, thanks to taxidermists and their discovery of Dawn soap as a wildlife cleanser de-greaser. Any pelican hittin a turbine will be chopped pelican steaks.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Splater has a valid point in the costs of wars to secure our fossil fuel energy needs. I think hes wrong though on the carbon tax reducing income taxes-government is insatiable in their revenue collection and wasteful spending. Alternative energy has a ways to go to be effective, particularly because of their nonconstant generation a viable storage system is crucial. The 2.7 billion dollars Obama has earmarked for fiscal 2014 climate studies would be much better spent in R&D on alternative energy storage. You guys citing low numbers for fossil fuel availability are behind the times. With the new technologies we currently have in excess of a 100 year supply for all U.S. consumption right here within our borders.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
So you are claiming wind turbines kill more birds than buildings or cats or pesticides?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Nope. what im saying is you can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig..
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
At least the problem is being worked on.

http://www.sandiegolovesgreen.com/articles/energy-articles/wind-energy/birdfatalities/the-bird-safe-wind-turbine/

http://www.windturbinesnow.com/vertical-axis-wind-turbines.htm

http://www.seao2.com/vawt/
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 27, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
Chief you posted a "good example" Diesel costs less to refine and produce but is MORE expensive to purchase---WHY??? I think the answer lies in WHO is in control of the commodity----BIG OIL!!!!

Also it isn't the last 20 or 30 years but in the last 40 FORTY 40 years!!!The technology has been suppressed...

I want to know what your solution is to getting rid of the powers that be that are holding us hostage to a Fossil Fuel dominated energy supply??
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