The Chief
climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 07:04am PT
|
The concept of the Anthropocene might, therefore, become exploited, to a variety of ends. Some of these may be beneficial, some less so. The Anthropocene might be used as encouragement to slow carbon emissions and biodiversity loss, for instance; perhaps as evidence in legislation on conservation measures ; or, in the assessment of compensation claims for environmental damage. It has the capacity to become the most politicized unit, by far, of the Geological Time Scaleand therefore to take formal geological classification into uncharted waters.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es903118j
That's why it makes sense to start thinking seriously about radical countermeasures. One of the biggest boosts to the idea of climate manipulation came last summer from Paul Crutzen, an emeritus at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry. Writing in the journal Climate Change, Crutzen, who shared the 1995 Nobel Prize in chemistry for work examining ozone depletion, described a plan to shoot massive quantities of sulfur into the stratosphere. In theory, the sulfur would reflect sunlight just as particles blown into the air by the eruption of Mount Pinatubo did in 1991 cooling Earth and buying enough time for civilization to shift into green gear. Crutzen's not crazy, and he's no renegade terraformer. "Until a few years ago, I would also have been against the idea," he recently told an Australian newspaper. His journal article and his clout gave geoengineering an almost instant credibility boost. Soon other heavies, like Ralph Cicerone, president of the National Academy of Sciences, were also writing in favor of the concept. Their message: Geoengineering isn't, and shouldn't be, fringe science. "Given that the climate-change problem might be more serious than we previously thought," says Tom Wigley, a mathematical physicist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, "we should consider these radical solutions more seriously."
Stanford's Caldeira is keeping an open mind he's even helping to organize an international geoengineering meeting at NASA Ames Research Center.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.12/start.html?pg=3
Yeah, this is all made up conspiracy hoax..... NOT!
Like I said, science men at the DOE (ED), NOAA and NASA are in action.
Ken Caldeira
Department of Global Ecology
Carnegie Institution of Washington 260 Panama St. Stanford, CA 94305
Caldeira Lab Research
2010: Atmospheric carbon dioxide removal: long-term consequences and commitment (Cao and Caldeira, Environmental Research Letters)
2010: Albedo enhancement of marine clouds to counteract global warming: impacts on the hydrological cycle (Bala et al., Climate Dynamics)
2009: Fast versus slow response in climate change: implications for the global hydrological cycle (Bala et al., Climate Dynamics)
2009: Sensitivity of ocean acidification to geoengineered climate stabilization (Matthews et al., GRL)
2008: Global and Arctic climate engineering: numerical model studies (Caldeira and Wood
ETC ETC ETC....
http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab/Geoengineering.html
There are a lot more of these "Science Men" out there doing the exact same Climate Geoengineering work that I and you are paying for with our Tax Dollars via Gov't Funded Grants.
Here is some more of ED's Employer, the DOE and other U.S. Gov't Agencies at work in their Geoengineering Research:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41371.pdf
|
|
bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 07:56am PT
|
LOL
Send your 'conspiracy theory' kernels to The Chief brand popcorn machine and it will fully inflate them with hot air!
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:00am PT
|
Doing research about geoenginnering (or about vortexes or stability analysis) is not the same thing as doing geoenginnering.
|
|
new world order2
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:01am PT
|
There have been numerous threads discussing geo-engineering/chemtrails.
Will you folks who think the spraying of our sky is a conspiracy theory please peruse a link from (mainstream media) The Economist, and Wiki. re. geo-enginneering?
http://www.economist.com/node/17414216
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoengineering
Healyje, so you're "a software engineer with experience in RFIDs and near-field communications......" ? Yet you still think "no one is going to be implanted with RFIDs" ? My gosh man, you are truly programmed, aren't you? There are hundreds of links to implanted RFIDs. Search it for yourself. Our pets today have implanted RFIDs. There's even a beach club/disco in Barcelona that chips it's customers. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm For you to deny this just tells me you mind is closed.....or in denial. Sad, that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_%28human%29
Doing research about geoenginnering (or about vortexes or stability analysis) is not the same thing as doing geoenginnering.
Oiy vey....that's how things are done, Raymond. You do research before you implement an action.
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:06am PT
|
There have been numerous threads discussing geo-engineering/chemtrails.
Yes, and those threads showed that chemtrails is a incorrect conspiracy theory.
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:16am PT
|
Oiy vey....that's how things are done, Raymond. You do research before you implement an action.
Cant the skeptics send someone that understands at least something?
The issue is not if it has been researched but if it has or is going to be implemented.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 08:48am PT
|
I attended an AGU session on geoengineering last year; reaction from most of the panelists and audience comments was decidedly skeptical. I don't know of any survey but suspect that most scientists share this skepticism, based on many concerns that have been raised about its practicality as well as the possibly disastrous unintended consequences. Some of these ideas look insanely risky to me, and historical experience suggests they're almost certain to backfire in some rabbits-to-Australia kind of way -- but this time, affecting the whole planet's life support system.
The counterargument is that greenhouse warming is even riskier, and due to political paralysis we're not doing anything about it. There's an element of have-your-cake-and-eat-it: Burn all the fossil fuels you want, and the engineers will still save you.
Example of unintended consequences:
"Geoengineering could lead to a whiter sky"
http://www.agu.org/news/press/pr_archives/2012/2012-26.shtml
|
|
The Chief
climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:10am PT
|
you to deny this just tells me you mind is closed.....or in denial. Sad, that. BINGO!
LARRY!
If your stance is authentic, then please explain the following Gov't (US Tax Payer)funded R&D that is shoulder deep in Climate Geoengineering:
Ken Caldeira
Department of Global Ecology
Carnegie Institution of Washington 260 Panama St. Stanford, CA 94305
Caldeira Lab Research
2010: Atmospheric carbon dioxide removal: long-term consequences and commitment (Cao and Caldeira, Environmental Research Letters)
2010: Albedo enhancement of marine clouds to counteract global warming: impacts on the hydrological cycle (Bala et al., Climate Dynamics)
2009: Fast versus slow response in climate change: implications for the global hydrological cycle (Bala et al., Climate Dynamics)
2009: Sensitivity of ocean acidification to geoengineered climate stabilization (Matthews et al., GRL)
2008: Global and Arctic climate engineering: numerical model studies (Caldeira and Wood
http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab/Geoengineering.html
EPA, NASA, NOAA and The US Dept of Energy!
In general, geoengineering technologies are categorized as either a carbon dioxide removal (CDR) method or a solar radiation management (SRM) method. CDR methods address the warming effects of greenhouse gases by removing carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere. CDR methods include ocean fertilization, and carbon capture and sequestration. SRM methods
address climate change by increasing the reflectivity of the Earths atmosphere or surface. Aerosol injection and space-based reflectors are examples of SRM methods. SRM methods do not remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere, but can be deployed faster with relatively immediate global cooling results compared to CDR methods.
In addition to seeking an understanding of the science behind the different geoengineering technologies, policymakers are considering policies and strategies for addressing geoengineering at the national and international levels. To date, there is limited federal involvement in, or oversight of, geoengineering. However, some states as well as some federal agencies, notably the Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Energy, Department of Agriculture, and the Department of Defense, have taken actions related to geoengineering research or projects.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41371.pdf
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:22am PT
|
Chief, you won't see the irony, but perhaps others will -- refusal to reduce greenhouse emissions is what drives calls for geoengineering research.
As if you were driving your bus full speed towards a tree, hands in a death-grip on the wheel, while some engineers trapped on board try to quickly build air bags and attach power saws to the front of the bus.
Of course there's a better way to avoid crashing!
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:29am PT
|
Of course there's a better way
Instead of trying to control nature, (totally stupid dumbsh!t idea), maybe just maybe you guys can once again become harmonious with it.
Nature is fully alive and fully conscious of what you're doing.
Don't try and conquer it, control it, abuse it, but listen to it telling you what it needs to keep us in a harmonious state.
It will automatically reciprocate in a very nice way .......
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:34am PT
|
Now it is getting strange. In Hawaii they're making it hard to install
residential solar because too much of a good thing is just another excuse to
screw people over for a $3000 study fee.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Too much of a good thing
|
|
The Chief
climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:52am PT
|
As if you were driving your bus full speed towards a tree, hands in a death-grip on the wheel, while some engineers trapped on board try to quickly build air bags and attach power saws to the front of the bus.
Of course there's a better way to avoid crashing!
So you Larry are condoning this activity and potential implementation?
As if you were driving your bus full speed towards a tree...
Simple, turn the steering wheel and apply the brakes at a slow rate so as not to skid and lose control.
Instead of trying to control nature, (totally stupid dumbsh!t idea), maybe just maybe you guys can once again become harmonious with it.
Nature is fully alive and fully conscious of what you're doing.
Don't try and conquer it, control it, abuse it, but listen to it telling you what it needs to keep us in a harmonious state.
Simple Logic for simple spirited minds as us Werner.
but...
Can't do that when the science human minded ego prevails. Continuously insisting that they are the only way to save humanity from itself. When they in fact are the primary culprits of it all. Then deflecting the truth by blaming it all on Big Oil etc.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 10:34am PT
|
So you Larry are condoning this activity and potential implementation?
No Chief, I am not. I meant exactly what I said, "Some of these ideas look insanely risky to me, and historical experience suggests they're almost certain to backfire in some rabbits-to-Australia kind of way -- but this time, affecting the whole planet's life support system."
Simple, turn the steering wheel and apply the brakes at a slow rate so as not to skid and lose control.
You mean, develop alternative energy and reduce fossil fuel use gradually? If so it's the first time I've seen you say that. It would refocus discussion onto just how fast that tree is approaching. But maybe you're just imagining a literal bus.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 10:47am PT
|
I watched a very well done and unexpectedly harrowing PBS historical show about the Dust Bowl last night,
http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/dustbowl/
It's on again tonight, 8-10 EST.
THE DUST BOWL chronicles the worst man-made ecological disaster in American history, in which the frenzied wheat boom of the "Great Plow-Up," followed by a decade-long drought during the 1930s nearly swept away the breadbasket of the nation. Vivid interviews with twenty-six survivors of those hard times, combined with dramatic photographs and seldom seen movie footage, bring to life stories of incredible human suffering and equally incredible human perseverance. It is also a morality tale about our relationship to the land that sustains usa lesson we ignore at our peril.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 10:54am PT
|
You mean, develop alternative energy and reduce fossil fuel use gradually? If so it's the first time I've seen you say that.
Not at all Larry!
I have been a proponent of this concept all along.
But your insistence in trying to demonize me as well as charactizing me as just another Right Wing Limbaugh/Beck believing freakhas totally disallowed you and many others here from seeing that.
I am totally against any Carbon Taxation of US citizens that will indeed go to the continued proliferation of research then implementation of the Climate Geoengineering process that is obviously well in place.
|
|
bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 11:01am PT
|
Hey, Chief...
Since we're talking about wasting tax money, how do you feel about the $700 billion we spend on "defense" every year? That's undercounting, but, still, I'm sure every one of those dollars is well spent...
Combined EPA and NSF federal funding is under $20 billion, so even if all of that went to "geoengineering" or related research, looks to me like it's a rounding error.
Just wondering how that comparison looks from your end.
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 11:12am PT
|
So the chief disbelieves all science that claim that CO2 makes the world warmer because that knowledge would result in carbon taxes and carbon taxes are going to result in funding for scientists that want to change the climate with geoenginnering.
It makes "perfect sense" now but I would say that it would be easier and more natural to try to avoid geoenginnering by limiting the polution. One way to do it is to use carbon taxes.
|
|
The Chief
climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 11:44am PT
|
So the chief disbelieves all science that claim that CO2 makes the world warmer because that knowledge would result in carbon taxes and carbon taxes are going to result in funding for scientists that want to change the climate with geoenginnering.
It makes "perfect sense" now but I would say that it would be easier and more natural to try to avoid geoenginnering by limiting the polution. One way to do it is to use carbon taxes.
Like the latter will come true. But obviously you and the others can not see that the geoengineering is in place and will be the primary mitigation process funded by Carbon Tax revenues.
Denial at it's best.
If not, please show where all the revenue from the billions in carbon taxes will actually go.
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
 |
|
Nov 19, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
|
But obviously you and the others can not see that the geoengineering is in place and will be the primary mitigation process funded by Carbon Tax revenues.
So can you show a single evidence that geoengineering is in place?
If not, please show where all the revenue from the billions in carbon taxes will actually go.
I don't even know why someone believe that the money should go to geoengineering. The money could of course go to a lot of things.
I really doubt that at least large scale bioengineering is going to happen.
You just seem to be more and more crazy.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|