Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
you come clean with the information

Fantasy/reality issues again, Rick. I didn't "come clean with the information," I led with it. Here's my entire post from yesterday on the birds thread, where I first posted that webcam photo:

"Anybody recognize this bird?
From North Pole webcam 2 on July 22, currently at about 87N, sitting in a melt pond and drifting toward Fram Strait."

Still curious about the bird.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
I believe that posting a picture of a bird and water and claiming that it is at 87 degrees latitude, when it is IN FACT ONLY 87 DEGREES latitude, invalidates all climate science and proves beyond reason (far, far beyond reason) that anthropogenic climate change is an elaborate hoax.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
Rick has been fed, I think, the talking point that NPEO webcam 2 is not exactly at the North Pole, but has drifted some degrees south in the direction of Fram Strait. It's the diamond at the end of the squiggly green line in this photo, now at about 85N:



It probably was not given with Rick's talking point that the webcam is nevertheless drifting in *relatively* thick ice, close to what satellite measurements are still showing as one of the last major 100% sea ice concentrations in the Arctic Ocean, according to today's map from Uni Bremen. Dark purple here represents 100% ice, lighter purple down to about 85%, yellow in the 70s and so forth. The ice is solid almost nowhere.



Original source, with other graphs and maps, here:
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/ssmis/index.html
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
the 1800s were the worst fires we know about followed by the early 1900s

Please provide references. Were these the worst in total area, duration, or burn severity?

Thanks
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Did someone just sh#t their pants? It reeks like chief in here.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
LOL at Chief. What an idiot.

Too busy yapping to hear everyone laughing at him. Too stupid to know better.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
it was a CURRENT picture of the Arctic Pole having turned into a melting lake

^ reality in a nutshell.

Credit: http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/np2013/2013-cam2.mov

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/np2013/2013-cam2.mov
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
Ok Bruce. You say I am a reasonable student and then in the next paragraph say my beliefs are irrational and immoral, perhaps criminal. You go on to say Ed may be high on crack or a raving eco terrorist. In a later post you say the gift that goes on giving. Well bubba, it is after all entertainment, isn't it? When in Rome do as the Romans.

Bruce you seem to be an intelligent man yet you seem to have an irrational belief that their is an overwhelming consensus of science behind the CAGW hypothesis. All I can tell you is to exercise a little humility buddy. While you are doing your morning self appraisal in the mirror ask yourself am I certain in my beliefs or am i being misdirected. I know this is hard to accept but their are tens of thousands of scientists, some of which were recognized previous to the CAGW hit jobs as some of the worlds foremost authorities, worldwide that do not sign on to the idea of anthropogenic catastrophe or the agenda behind it. I've read extensively on this subject and am satisfied that we don't face imminent catastrophe. Can you say the same about your belief in catastrophe?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 27, 2013 - 12:29am PT
I didn't because the evidence is there, all around you Bruce. Look at the empirical rather than the modeled. Face it buddy, you are at least the 180 opposite but equal idealogue to that which you accuse me of being. Like I said before- I used to accept this AGW theory as fact and entrusted the "science" that made reference to its most prominent effects taking place in the arctic-where I just happened to live. But a funny thing happened, after I voted for Gore in 2000 the warming reversed course here in Alaska and I started to educate myself on the subject. It is now 13 years later and the state has cooled, on average 2.4 f at 19 out of 20 officially recognized stations, observed realities have convincingly refuted the catastrophe narrative, yet the shrill and desperate cries of catastrophe continue-in my mind exposing them as false.

Ok so why don't the CAGW proponents embrace nat gas, nuclear, hydro? You know Bruce that solar and wind is not a realistic replacement. And out of curiosity you make reference to kids, how many do you have Bruce?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 27, 2013 - 12:30am PT
Marcott reconstruction shows that we are at the highest global temp in the last 10k years, so The Chiefs claim that 10K years ago was 5 degrees higher is going to need a source.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/03/new-hockey-stick-graph-...
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/03/new-hockey-stick-graph-scarier
Credit: monolith
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 27, 2013 - 12:44am PT
The Chief chooses to give Joann Nova's interpretation of the Antarctic paper, which she retracts in an update:

http://joannenova.com.au/2013/04/antarctica-gaining-ice-mass-and-is-not-extraordinary-compared-to-800-years-of-data/

But you can read the abstract directly here. No mention of Zwally.

http://www.the-cryosphere.net/7/303/2013/tc-7-303-2013.html

Our SMB reconstructions indicate that the SMB changes over most of Antarctica are statistically negligible and that the current SMB is not exceptionally high compared to the last 800 yr. High-accumulation periods have occurred in the past, specifically during the 1370s and 1610s. However, a clear increase in accumulation of more than 10% has occurred in high SMB coastal regions and over the highest part of the East Antarctic ice divide since the 1960s

And again Chief, SMB (surface mass balance) is not TMB (total mass balance). Even Joanne Nova has corrected herself. We've been thru this with you before, Chief.

Chief, are you having a senior moment?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 27, 2013 - 12:48am PT
Yes, you are correct Bruce with the ideology question. So let's go back to your mirror test. For my own part, when I look in the morning I am satisfied and confident in what I know to be the truth, 100% no, 95 % yes. This is after a journey beginning from closer to your present ideology than you imagine.

Ok so you have some skin of your loins in the game and I now know it is not a selfish belief on your part. Natgas-45% less CO2 and readily available, cheap, and would put a very significant dent in the unemployment if fully utilized, latest generation reactors nearly 100% safe if located correctly and would employ tens of thousands in construction, Dams-safe and reasonably eco friendly if careful thought is incorporated in their design. So Bruce, why wont the eco freaks allow this and instead cry the sky is falling while 100,000's of Chinese and other non north americans are employed in construction of solar panels and windmills which are wholly insufficient as replacement?
dirtbag

climber
Jul 27, 2013 - 01:02am PT
CHIEF:








































































^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



dirtbag

climber
Jul 27, 2013 - 01:11am PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 27, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Er, um Chief, temperatures in Greenland are not total global temperature average.

That's the 2nd time you've fooled yourself about Greenland temp representing global temp average, in addition to your 2nd SMB blunder. You are really on a roll tonight.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 27, 2013 - 01:27am PT
Follow the money Bruce. You'll find that vast sums of corporate cash and billionaire stash are paid to left wing CAGW advancing NGO's to gain their silence, compliance, or as investment in targeting their wrath at lesser competitors.We live in a fascist power structure with socialist utopianism b.s. being distributed to the compliant masses. It aint called big government and big business for nothing. Then look at the newly minted platoons of enviromental PHD's like some spewing on this thread. Is it any wonder this farce is being advanced.

Ed, he's a wily old school scientist. I printed off the three piles of carrots and sticks he posted tonight and added them to my 2 foot pile. Expect a beating if i highlight those sections of the papers supporting alternative processes. Can't quite figure out his game yet, but he's always entertaining.

dirtbag

climber
Jul 27, 2013 - 02:28am PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 27, 2013 - 10:30am PT
I choose to look at the BIG PICTURE. Not a close minded focus on something that is in a time scale that only goes back some 180 years and call it "history/record".

Puffed-up fakery. The paleoclimatologists who do those studies really are big-picture folks, in this context. And very interesting, too. They pretty much all know that recent rapid changes are highly unusual, looking back quite a long way.

But Chief does not choose to look at, much less read or understand, the big picture described by paleoclimatologists who produced those data. Instead, he chooses to look at, believe and repeat claims from pseudoscience bloggers. Who he counts on to feed him doctored or politically-spun graphs that suit his emotional beliefs.

Chief can't read graphs but for the benefit of those who can -- any time you're looking at time plots over periods of thousands to millions of years, be aware that the "present" end of the graph might not be what the blogger is claiming. For example, "present" in ice core chronologies is commonly defined as 1950, and the top year for most of them is much older than that. Alley's widely quoted Greenland ice sheet reconstruction, for example, ends during the Little Ice Age -- its most recent date is 1855 (i.e. 95 years before "present").

And yet bloggers all 'round the net will show graphs with Alley's Greenland data and label the right side "present," to make claims or just imply that it shows older temperatures were warmer. (Yep, Greenland was warmer a thousand years back than it was in the Little Ice Age. The defining characteristic of the Little Ice Age is that, especially around the northern Atlantic, it was cold.) Chief has examples of such graphs, and others using similar time-axis illusions, above. Reconstructions going back hundreds of thousands to millions of years are even more susceptible to variation in their end dates. It's usually well defined in the actual papers, written by scientists who produced the data, but then skipped over if not deliberately hidden by bloggers, to be gobbled up and reposted all over hell by their gullible readers.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 27, 2013 - 11:21am PT
Admit it Chiloe you are the Grande Poobah of The Climatinati. Ed H is your Minister of Disinformation. You are fed the table scraps of Billionaires and (hehe) large corporations, for the sole purpose of.... hmmmm......

for the sole purpose of.....

(f*#k!)

What is the sole purpose of your conspiracy anyway???? :-D

DMT

ps. The purpose of your conspiracy is to rattle Conspiracy Theorists, hahahahahahaha!

Well it worked. They're unhinged.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 27, 2013 - 11:29am PT
Admit it Chiloe you are the Grande Poobah of The Climatinati. Ed H is your Minister of Disinformation.

Hah, personally I'm flattered to get lumped in with Ed, though if we're a conspiracy he forgot to send me the memo.

So I wonder, do Rick, Chief and Ron look at each other and think "Hey, we're on the Smart Bus!"?
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