Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
The axis of the planet remains oriented in the same direction with reference to the background stars and galaxies...

Which axis... magnetic or rotationic?

Begging your pardon Dr. Christensen...Earth's axial tilt doesn't change...being stable at 23.4 degrees to the ecliptic.

I suppose you meant "the ecliptic" of the background stars and galaxies?



pffft, English majors!
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
Which axis... magnetic or rotationic?


The Earth's rotational axis.

I believe the magnetic axis undulates fairly significantly over time
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
Now answer part B.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
The ecliptic is earth's path around the sun, Herr Professor...

My next question...is the cyclic meandering of the ecliptic a big factor in onset and waning of ice ages?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
When the magnetic poles reverse giant cracks open and NYC will replace Atlantis as the bottom of the sea and the City of Lesbos will be the Apple of Everyone's Eye!, monsters from the icy depths of Hell will emerge, Climate Harpies will vie with Pigs on Wing to rule the skies and San Francisco will have 4 sunny days in a goddamned row.

In a ROW.

DMT
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
is the cyclic meandering of the ecliptic a big factor in onset and waning of ice ages?

You mean the eccentricity of the orbit? Potentially, but the Chuff wasn't there so nobody can be certain.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
The ecliptic is earth's path around the sun, Herr Professor...

My next question...is the cyclic meandering of the ecliptic a big factor in onset and waning of ice ages?

Uh girl.... clumsy leading questions are super painful to us casual observers. They're like bad puns or old Rowen and Martin jokes!

DMT
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
What ever you say, you're the expert on dicks.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
You mean the eccentricity of the orbit?


I mean the 2.5 degrees variation in axial tilt. The greater the tilt the more extreme the seasonal heat and cold. Would the greatest axial tilt to the ecliptic be enough to cause polar ice sheets to advance or would the heat of summers offset that trend?

2.5 degrees doesn't seem like very much but could be more significant than most of the public would assume.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Just have a few minutes during lunch and before im back to work. I asked some questions about solar variation/flares and axial tilt as regards to anomalies in the jet stream we have recently witnessed in the mid to high lattitudes.The CAGW people would have you believe the cause is anthropogenic, but the truth is a bit more complicated. Earths axial tilt varies over a 42000 year cycle from 22.1 to 24.5 degrees from the plane of eliptic. Currently we are at 23.4 degrees and decreasing.The relevance of that is obvious as for glacial/interglacial epochs but not so clear as regards to changes in the jet stream. The suns variability effect on the jet stream is much more obviuous. See link (one of many) below.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8412297_solar-flare-effects-jet-stream.html
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Would the greatest axial tilt to the ecliptic be enough to cause polar ice sheets to advance or would the heat of summers offset that trend?

How can there be a greates axial tilt when "Earth's axial tilt doesn't change?" (just making sure we are on the same page)

I calculated it once and I think it was secondary or tertiary, elliptial eccentricity having the biggest potential influence.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jun 25, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Anybody really upset with so-called "scientism" should refuse all modern forms of medical aid when it comes time. Leeches and the humors for you, my good Christianist fundamentarian. Preferably you reap the rewards of your dogma before you have a chance to procreate.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jun 25, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
How can there be a greates axial tilt when "Earth's axial tilt doesn't change?" (just making sure we are on the same page)

I calculated it once and I think it was secondary or tertiary, elliptial eccentricity having the biggest potential influence.



I think we ARE on the same page, Wes. I wasn't aware of the quavering of the ecliptic relative to the Earth's rotational axis (must have been sleeping in Planetary Astronomy 103). Gloat if you will...

I was thinking the Earths rotational axis was ordained in the collision and merge events with a Mars size planet over four billion years ago...and that a change in the axis without another major cataclysm would violate the conservation of angular momentum.

Yes, you're correct... there is undulation in the plane of earths orbit relative to Earth's axis. So, in effect, Earth's axial tilt does have a cyclic variation.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
So, in effect the axial tilt does have a cyclic variation.

Yes. And what is the periodicity?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
every time Rosie ODonnel flys back from the e coast.?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
I think we ARE on the same page, Wes. I wasn't aware of the quavering of the ecliptic relative to the Earth's rotational axis (must have been sleeping in Planetary Astronomy 103). Gloat if you will...

This was pretty much self-administered. Nice to see you accepting it with your usual equanimity and grace.

DMT
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Great programs this past week on the history of the earth...incredible how many extinction events there have been and how most we're due to climate change...with different reasons for the change...asteroids, ocean cycle being disrupted, etc...one of the scientists made a comment that the previous events were never caused by a species...
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Intact ecosystems have a way of self-regulating. Changes in those systems are often gradual, kept in check by the other components.

Over consumption of any resource leads to a crash. Plants know it, so they regulate their water use in arid climates. Predators know it, so they don't often kill everything they can just because they can. A well fed mtnloin is far less dangerous than a hungry one.

There appears to be only one small segment of one species that doesn't quite get it. It is almost as if they think the Earth is God's gift to them, as opposed to the only known planet life can inhabit.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Yes. And what is the periodicity?


A mean period of 41,040 years. The locus of precession modifies the interval somewhat...

And, NO! I'm not taking it with equanimity and grace. Grrr! I blaming every moonstruck Astronomy professor in the hemisphere ! (sob!)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
so obamas cabinet made a public statement that its time for the "war on coal". Yes, the real reasons behind the scene. Lets go after an industry where millions rely on it for income or heat and NOT YET have a viable comparably priced option.. CART before the horse once again.. And POOR folks will pay.
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