Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 6761 - 6780 of total 26444 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 30, 2013 - 03:18am PT
The Chief:

The Minority. DRF. Not the Consensus. The People say different. They are what matters. Big Time.

They might matter in terms of policy and who is elected to pursue that policy but the science moves forward. For whatever reason your ideology stands against what that science is saying, which is that the overall temperature of the Earth is rising due to elevated CO2 levels caused by the burning of fossil fuels.

You fear the policies that might be implemented as a result of what science is telling us is happening. Try to separate the two. Be honest, stop lambasting the science, which you don't understand, in an attempt to further your agenda.

The 97% consensus spoken of above is a consensus of scientists working in the field at hand. Should it be surprising that "The People" don't share this consensus? NO. Science can be difficult to understand. Science is an understanding built from the work of other scientists, block by block. If you're not immersed in the subject it shouldn't be surprising that you don't understand all of the nuances.

And on top of that, we now have varied interests with an agenda against the science being done scrambling to drown the media and blogs to somehow "prove" the science is wrong, all pandered to the non-scientific minds. No. It's not surprising that much of the public are not fully aware of the science being done or are able to comprehend what is being done and are therefore behind the curve of the consensus of the scientists doing the work.

So what. Time will tell. Get back to me in ten or fifteen years when the sh#t really starts to hit the fan. The Chief will gladly accept it and shrug it off as part of the natural cycle of things when his kids are being shot stealing a loaf of bread because the world wide growing cycle is out of whack and prices are through the roof and Ron A will be mounting a Brown Bear with a nice little plaque calling it a Polar Bear that "evolved".
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 30, 2013 - 07:31am PT
Chief here is a list of the things I believe:

Earth is 4.6 billion years old based on the science

Evolution

The Scientific Method (ie scientists have a hypothesis and test that hypothesis wich lead to a theory--that may change or evolve as other scientists or different testing methods emerge--leading to different theories that also get tested and evolve).

The Chief has worked with Delta (an elite military group) performing Combat rescue operations (I assume they need elite personnel), his daughter is a clinical psychologist (you must have elite grades and education to attain in addition to a strong scientific background).

The chief lives in a backwoods commune, uses solar power, bikes and hikes more than the average human, loves animals, leaves no trace, loves history, cares about people, recycles, etc etc.

The Chief uses countless products daily that he TRUSTS that were developed by scientists, built by engineers (who are scientists themselves), tested by different scientists who allow the product to be sold (for example Underwriter Labratories for electrical products).

The Chief is a hypocrit based on the above observations that I have gleaned from his posts. I am also as is every person on earth at one time or another...

Oh almost forgot I also know the climate is changing on earth due to many different factors wich include solar radiation, human pollution, human use of fossil fuels, and HUMAN GREED.

That about covers it back to you Chief
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 30, 2013 - 07:37am PT
Chief I gotta feeling your going to come back (after death) until you learn to admit that humans impact our climate!!

but you will also come back because the energy, atoms, and even smaller things not yet discovered make you up and they exist everywhere in the universe...

I smoke weed and do other things that are bad examples but I don't have kids... I leave the parenting up to the ones that do...I take care not to do it in front of children...

How about you Chief did you teach your children to have a closed mind or an open one...to think for themselves, study hard, exercise, eat healthy??

Answer YOU TAUGHT YOUR KIDS ALL OF THE ABOVE including having an OPEN MIND!! and YOU are a HYPOCRIT, ECO WARRIOR, BLEEDING HEART, NATURE LOVER who used to drink to boot!
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 30, 2013 - 08:54am PT
The Chief has worked with Delta (an elite military group) performing Combat rescue operations (I assume they need elite personnel),

Really? You believe that?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 09:25am PT
Global warming could change our maps...

Key words. You all keep avoiding to recognize "could", "if". etc.

The People ARE NOT buying it. That is the consensus that will make or break your ideological agenda. For now, it's a no go. Regardless the amount of paperwork and shouting you all keep proliferating us with. Far too many are reading through the lines, big time. "Could", "If" .... buy our product and we will save you and your children. Yet your general propaganda keeps showing flaws left and right. But you just keep hammering the nail that is completely bent over and the head is gone.

Most assuredly it is your across the board attitudes of intellectual general condemnation that is making you ALL look really bad. Self serving and totally bias. That is what The People see and what they do not want anything do with. But you all just do not get it.

The AGW/GCC propaganda is flawed. Inaccurate and far fetched to say the least. Fix it and readjust your "intellectual" pompous attitudes. Then, MAYBE, The People may start listening.










If in fact any of you PRO AGWers do smoke cigarettes, than your credibility is completely shot. Hypocrisy is your #1 enemy. Al Gore has proven that. His example of hypocrisy has shown "The People" that your side of the fence is really full of shet and just out for the money. But then you all do not see that either.



Hey there is the self proclaimed HEAD SOCIALIST himself. Gary. Welcome. The Sheep Herd is gathering. Got to give you guys credit. At least you all stick together. Admirable.

How's Christmas Tree Pass Gary? From what I understand, the Natives won and you white men got your asses told to go bye bye. All with arrows in your a*#es. Prime example of your self serving attitudes being told to basically fk off. How is that working for ya Gary. Oh Christmas Tree oh Christmas Tree....





















dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Gotta love it when someone who is openly, and proudly ignorant--like Chief Running Mouth--opines on something about which he knows little.



The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 10:22am PT
Oh the Hypocrisy.

Gary is living proof of your agenda's self serving BS. He is a staunch Eco Pro AGW fighting save the planet from Exxon, Koch Bros etc type of Socialist guy. BUT! Here is the BIG BUT. When an area that he is fond of gets tagged and bagged (closed off and returned to it's original natural state/Wilderness Protection clause etc) by the same Gov't you and he all cry to in order to save the planet, well that is a whole different enchilada. That Gov't is then deemed "the Tool". Assholes to say the least.

Oh the irony of it all. How the Hypocrisy prevails on the floor.
Fmr. Bitch

climber
May 30, 2013 - 10:54am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/world/europe/in-swiss-alps-glacial-melting-unglues-mountains.html?hp&_r=0
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 30, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Gary is living proof of your agenda's self serving BS. He is a staunch Eco Pro AGW fighting save the planet from Exxon, Koch Bros etc type of Socialist guy. BUT! Here is the BIG BUT. When an area that he is fond of gets tagged and bagged (closed off and returned to it's original natural state/Wilderness Protection clause etc) by the same Gov't you and he all cry to in order to save the planet, well that is a whole different enchilada. That Gov't is then deemed "the Tool". Assholes to say the least.

LOL!
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 11:27am PT
^^^^^^ Many have been Gary. Many have been. LOL. All at your Hypocrisy.^^^^^^^^^^^
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 11:32am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Knotty, Knotty Chief^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 11:48am PT
I think his reasoning is that if I do anything that risks my health, my motives regarding AGW are suspect.

Nope. Hypocrisy. You stand on a soap box proclaiming we all need to listen to and act upon the "consensus" regarding the science in AGW. All the while, you voluntarily partake in an activity that is proven, by science mind you, to have killed more humans than all the wars in the 20th Century and then some.
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Burchey you should warn your friend that reading Chief Running Mouth's posts might make him dumber.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
about those dang Polar Bears:



A survey by the Nunavut government in 2011 showed that polar bear numbers
in Western Hudson Bay have not declined since 2004 as predicted and all available
evidence indicates that Hudson Bay sea ice is not on a steadily precipitous decline –
good reasons not to be worried about Hudson Bay bears.
While polar bear biologists Ian Stirling and Andrew Derocher continue to insist that the
modest decline in numbers of Western Hudson Bay polar bears recorded between 1998
and 2004 was due to earlier breakup of sea ice – and continues on that trend to this day –
it turns out that much of the data used to support that claim is either unpublished, woe- is either unpublished, woe is either unpublished, woe--
fully out of date, or both. Although Stirling and colleagues have not yet published comparable dates of sea ice breakup since 2007 (they use a particular computation of satellite
data), Canadian Ice Service data5
suggests that over the last 10 years we have not seen
another very early breakup in Hudson Bay like the one that occurred in 2003. Surprisingly,
2009 was a late breakup year: the Port of Churchill experienced the latest breakup of sea
ice since 1974 (three weeks later than average). All of which suggests that in Western
Hudson Bay, some years have been good for polar bears and others have been not so
good, **but there has not been a relentless decline in sea ice breakup dates over the last
thirty years.


**



8) Global temperatures have not risen in a statistically�significant way in the
last 16 years9
(see Figure 2) – a standstill not predicted by climate models and a
phenomenon even the chairman of the IPCC has acknowledged10 – which **suggests
that the record sea ice lows of the last few years are probably not primarily due
to CO2**
�caused increases in global temperatures.11
Such changes in Arctic sea ice appear to be normal habitat variations that polar bears
have survived before (see point 9, below) and are likely due to natural processes we do
not yet fully understand.





) Survival of polar bears over a hundred thousand years (at least) of highly variable
sea ice coverage indicates that those biologists who portend a doomed future for
the polar bear have grossly underestimated its ability to survive vastly different
conditions than those that existed in the late 1970s when Ian Stirling began his
polar bear research.
Sea ice has varied – countless dozens of times – over the short term (decades-long climate oscillations) and the long term (glacial-to-interglacial cycles of thousands of years).
Over the last 100,000 years, there have been periods of much less ice than today, but also
much, much more. Polar bear population numbers probably fluctuated up and down in
conjunction with some of these sea ice changes but the polar bear as a species survived
– and so did all of the Arctic seal species it depends on for food. Such survival indicates
that these Arctic species, in an evolutionary sense, are very well-adapted to their highly variable habitat.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 30, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
Ed continues to bring interesting research to light to aid in the understanding the dynamics of the multitude of forces and mechanisms driving climate here on Earth.Large portions most of us can understand, other portions are written in the more complex language of science. Let's all give Mr. Hartouni a big round of applause for his patient efforts to keep us all informed. I think all of the more reasonable thinkers among us have ruled out imminent catastrophic anthropogenic forcing disasters. If you listen closely you can trust Ed's interpretations.Now read some of the science and ask questions.
Lennox

climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
May 30, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
re thechief

from wikipedia:



Chewbacca defense

Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense against Chef in South Park.
The Chewbacca defense is a legal strategy used in episode 27 of South Park, "Chef Aid", which premiered on October 7, 1998, as the fourteenth episode of the second season. The aim of the argument is to deliberately confuse the jury by making use of the fallacy known as ignoratio elenchi (or a red herring). The concept satirised attorney Johnnie Cochran's closing argument defending O. J. Simpson in his murder trial.

In the satire's original defense, the fictional Cochran started by stating, incorrectly, that Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. After then noting that this statement "does not make sense", Cochran continues to connect the senselessness of his own statement to the actual case, implying that it is equally senseless. His closing argument "If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit" is lampooning the actual Cochran's original "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit".

Usage

The Associated Press obituary for Cochran mentioned the Chewbacca defense parody as one of the ways in which the attorney had entered pop culture.[3]

Criminologist Dr. Thomas O'Connor says that when DNA evidence shows "inclusion", that is, does not exonerate a client by exclusion from the DNA sample provided, "About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a 'Chewbacca defense' … and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are."[4] Forensic scientist Erin Kenneally has argued that court challenges to digital evidence frequently use the Chewbacca defense by presenting multiple alternative explanations of forensic evidence obtained from computers and Internet providers to raise the reasonable doubt understood by a jury. Kenneally also provides methods that can be used to rebut a Chewbacca defense.[5][6] Kenneally and colleague Anjali Swienton have presented this topic before the Florida State Court System and at the 2005 American Academy of Forensic Sciences annual meeting.[7]

The term has also seen use in political commentary; Ellis Weiner wrote in The Huffington Post that Dinesh D'Souza was using the Chewbacca defense in criticism of then new Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, defining it as when "someone asserts his claim by saying something so patently nonsensical that the listener's brain shuts down completely".[8]

Jay Heinrichs' book Thank You for Arguing states that the term "Chewbacca defense" is "sneaking into the lexicon" as another name for the red herring fallacy.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense


thechief is the michelle bachman of supertopo--how can anyone want to try to debate that kind of crazy?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 30, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
So, you have read some of the science,and you have NO questions? Dick.

You think your position is reasonable?


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 30, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Good post Rick.. Ed has graciously "humored" many of here that certainly DONT understand the math and calculations. It is the end results from start to finish that actually inform more than the procedures themselves, at least for me.

My particular angle was to investigate the fauna flagships and the reactions of those in reality vs the theoretical graphs charts and figures. As i understand that angle far better. No ONE particular scientist is responsible for the GW info much as no ONE person has a handle on all the varying factors. (Flora, Fauna, climate, weather and history). that is QUITE the ball to roll into one with positive accuracy. ESPECIALLY given that GW flagships have sunk time and time again.

Still far too many "anomalies" that dont follow any models made thus far.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 30, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Burchey you should warn your friend that reading Chief Running Mouth's posts might make him dumber.

WTF you doing here, DIRTCLAUD.


Just out. The REALITY vs. The Fairy Tales.

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 30, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Chief here is a list of the things I believe:

Earth is 4.6 billion years old based on the science


Excuse me for sidetracking from the politics of global warming for a moment... from what event in the evolution of the planet is the 4.6 million years calculated?

From the epoch of the solar system's accretion disk gradually drawing material together into proto-planets? When a Mars sized body collided with the proto-earth, forging its present mass?...or from when the planet's crust cooled?

The formation of the planet took a vast interval of time. From what event... or sequence of cognate events in the unfolding development of the planet does "science" measure the apportioned 4.6 billion years?
Messages 6761 - 6780 of total 26444 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews