Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
But... How will people get black lung now??!!!

If we wait for the option, guess what? It will never happen. Forward, progressive thinking. I know, I know, completely alien to you guys.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
Nah, sh#t... I say we burn all our coal. I don't want to spend another $50 on electricity. Not worth it. Better to spend that money on a pizza and a movie. I'm sure SOMEONE will find another energy source soon enough.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
all the washington jackwagons are after is more $$$$$ and they care not where/who has to dole it out. Since global WARMING has been out to rest its now CLIMATE CHANGE .. Hope,, and change..,. They HOPE we dont watch while they steal our CHANGE...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 25, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Yes Ed. The history of stands has been examined through cross sections of trees and core samplings.. They survived many fires over their life spans. It has been estimated that the great basin used to have fires approx every ten years that would burn through stands, cleaning the fuel loads and treating the soils. That ISNT to say every acre was that way, but in large. Weve been supressing fires which allowed the dead fuels AND live fuels to generate to the point they both are over stocked. Now when fires burn they burn with unnatural intensities outside the parameters of natural burns. Invasive species then take hold and a host of other problems. Logging was stifled halted, or made ridiculously expensive and so those treatment options having been fading away in our FED run lands.
Tribes used to burn as an agricultural practice here and there as well.

But those times of let burn policies in thick stands wont help anything or any cause, climate change included. Lots of wilderness fires are let burn types but that is due to the skimpy wilderness fuels that tend to be there up in the Sierras for example. More granite and DG than connected fuels supplies. Those tend to behave more acceptable and natural as the fuels dont change much there.

Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jun 25, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
Chief, your stereotyping is Dull.
But it is interesting how people often like to harp on what appear to be (easy) contradictions, rather than focusing and working on real solutions to the main issues, which will always involve (difficult) tradeoffs.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 25, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Got no heartburn with that particular dam coming down. But there is no plan for one to replace it. Where is the water going to be stored when the rains come for the populace of the surrounding areas? Where does/is the water going to come from to supply those masses?

Rick, if you read the articles about the dam, you'll find out that it is not used for water supply, nor does it hold back water any longer as it has filled with sediment.

But then, that wouldn't be trolling! :-) I think they're onto you here. Maybe try another thread?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Yes, same people Chief. They live in LaLa land, must think the power is spontaneousl generated in the receptacle. Take away their comforts though and watch them howl.

Ed give me a little credit man. Im considerably beyond the level of those links. As for the frequent magnetic reversals; its not the flip that hurts but rather the severe weakening of the field leading up to the reversal that compromises our magnetic shield wreaking all sorts of havoc atmospherically as well as other effects like increased genetic mutation rates.Could it connected to the influences responsible for our orbital/axial variability-is there a point of pronounced phase change in those cycles?

A lot of people on this thread, even some scientists, have a poor grasp of Earths orbital mechanics, causes, effects, cycles, chaotic events. If they dont understand this i dont know how they can qualify themselves in Climate Change 101.

Now what about the bet we werw talking and the parameters of judging.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:18am PT
I think I'm with you Chief on the dams for water thing. I think about that quite a bit. Short of having snow pack, and with all the people.... It's interesting how overpopulation is driving many of our problems, giving license to corporations like Monsanto to come up with wrong solutions. When are people going to face the REAL problem?

Rick is an orbital mechanics expert now? No LOL needed!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Stick a big hose to B.C. and let LA suck them dry-ha Bruce?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:24am PT
What do you think about the idea that Earth may be getting overpopulated Rick? That, at least in terms of preserving something or our 'old' Earth's heritage. I'm sure we can evolve to where we live in cages like chickens, but do we want to do that? Are we going to become slaves to the wrong stuff? Do we have control of our future?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Meme_Machine
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:32am PT
Well Edward, as you know with decrease in our shielding we'd be far more susceptible to Romulan disrupters, Klingon torpedoes, etc.- don't you watch your StarTrek?

Seriously professor, we'd be more exposed to extrasolar cosmic rays and there still not completely evaluated effect on cloud nucleation. This would be a smaller problem than our normally life giving sun as we'd be highly exposed to the full spectrum of radiance and there not completely understood atmospheric effects, still of greater concern would be solar wind fluxes and mass ejections. These effects we have not witnessed in the modern age. Interestingly enough were overdue for a field reversal and the field is in a considerably weakened state as well as rather mobile at the moment.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:43am PT
Well with the hypothesized increase in cloud nucleation there would be a tendency to moderation of temps but that would do us little good if the sun blew away a considerable part of the upper atmospheric layers now would it? Increased destruction of the ozone layer would also be in the cards.Certainly there would be a multiple disruptions to tropheric ciculations and i would imagine both hot and cold locations in the early stages. Thats my attempt to answer. Now you the physicist-give us the full range and values of the hypothetical effects.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 12:48am PT
Owens River extention hell! They'd likely divert the whole Frasier salmon runs and all buddy. Now you are talking sense canuck!
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 26, 2013 - 01:08am PT
Rick, why all the talk about atmospheric catastrophe we can't do much about? You are sounding apocalyptic. You sound like a raving religious lunatic.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 01:13am PT
I read the paper, or a very similar one using sediment core and tree ring data from siberia a while back. The abstract mentioned sudden warming events accompanied by increased CO2, presumably lagging. Now how can you categorically state the field weakening leading up to a reversal cannot be a major contributing factor, herr professor? That's not what i took away from the paper or similar one.

McHale, i pride myself on rationality. I'm not a religious man nor do subscribe to apocalyptic visions/cults. I do believe their is much more to this earth, this solar system, this universe than humankind will ever be able to understand let alone control.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 26, 2013 - 01:25am PT
Ed your link leads to a subscription application. The graph you posted is to small to resolve any detail. Let me ask you this; does it show a transient magnetic reversal in the last 40-60 thousand years? There is some evidence of such an event.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:08am PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:33am PT
Here's the future. The wealthy people live on an orbiting space station.

http://movies.yahoo.com/video/elysium-trailer-4-224018929.html

I do believe their is much more to this earth, this solar system, this universe than humankind will ever be able to understand let alone control.

Who says we're in control?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jun 26, 2013 - 04:43am PT
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-10-dumbest-things-ever-said-about-global-warming-20130619
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 26, 2013 - 08:40am PT
The Chief:
As you know Gary, your water there in SOCAL comes from my neck of the woods as well as the CO River.

Actually, Huntington Beach gets most of our water from wells and the rest from the Colorado, but your point is well made.

In the west we've built a house of cards when it comes to water supply.

BTW, Rick, you should be glad LA bought, not stole, the Owens Valley water. That action left you with an undeveloped paradise.
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