Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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monolith

climber
SF bay area
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
So what?

Trying to change the subject?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
NO.... you are.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
Sure, Ron. I meant Yolo County, btw, not Solano. A slip of the mind.

Back in the day (when farmers ruled the state)...

The Central Valley was good farmland, everyone could recognize that. Taming the floods and making navigable winter roads was job one. In the 1800s it was virtually impossible to travel the Great Valley once the spring flooding began.

Anyway, numerous private enterprise groups formed 'water companies' in a wide variety of business formats from co-ops to communes. Turlock Irrigation District. Merced Irrigation District. Modesto Irrigation district. Etc. etc. etc.

They were all private. They all held ancestral water rights on their rivers of choice - basically since they were first they had and still have, FIRST DIBS on the water from their river systems.

One by one these original water companies were bought, sold, bankrupt, restarted, combined, etc. And each time this happened the ancestral 'first dibs' water rights transferred too.

That is the basic framework for why water is such a f*#king MESS in California... private enterprise, left to its own devices, will f*#k its customers every time, EVERY TIME. Just like every government will fail and democracy is only as good as an honest vote.

So... Lake County. Impoverished, by California standards. Always has been. There was no gold rush there to speak of. Farming is mostly boutique - the wine business helped out some. But to this day Lake County is the Mojave of the North; hot, dry tweaker-trailer country, haha.

Yolo Countyis one of the rich farm counties. Flat land, blessed farming climate and beau coup water! Where'd they get that water? Cache Creek is the drainage, so how did Yolo county get most of it?

http://www.co.lake.ca.us/Government/Directory/Water_Resources/Clear_Lake_Information/How_Yolo_Obtained_Claim_to_Waters_of_Clear_Lake.htm

How Yolo Obtained Claim to Waters of Clear Lake
Contrary to the belief of many, Lake County never owned the water of Clear Lake as it is held in the public trust by the State of California.


Persons owning land touching the lake or water courses have the littoral or riparian right to take water from these sources. Littoral and Riparian rights are a hold over from English Law.

The appropriation law, under which the Yolo County people secured their claim, was enacted into law in 1873, during the dispute between the hydraulic miners, establishing the right of the first to file for water. The history for the first to claim water from Cache Creek goes back to 1854 when the Moore Ditch Co. in Yolo County began preparations to take water from Cache Creek for irrigation purposes. Previous to this William Gordon, a naturalized Mexican citizen had been given grant of two square leagues of land between Sonoma and Napa and the Sacramento River with many rights by Mexican Governor Micheltreno.

Moore had acquired Gordon's holdings and it was on this land he established his ditch. In 1871 suit was filed against Moore by the Cachville Ditch Co., disputing Moore's claim to all the water that did flow or could flow in Cache Creek.

On Nov. 11, 1871, the local court decided against Moore. Moore appealed to the California Supreme Court which reversed to lower court and established Moore's claim, the result being that the Cachville Co. went out of business.

About 1908 a Mr. Highland spent $10,000 on a plan to build a dam on Kelsey Creek for the purpose of supplying water to the farmers of that area but when none were interested Mr. Highland dropped the idea with his $10,000. Later, when the Yolo County people were preparing to construct their present dam on Cache Creek, approached the Lake County Board of Supervisors, asking if Lake County was interested in the lake water.

Based on the experience of Mr. Highland, the answer was no. The Moore interests, which had been in the hands of the Moore family for nearly fifty years, during which time they had acquired the several other ditch Companies passed into the hands of the Yolo Water and Power Co. This latter company made application for 300,000 inches of water from Cache Creek, naming Clear Lake and all the streams flowing into the lake, this being recorded in the Lake County's Recorders office on May 28, 1912.

Through some oversight, Lake County never applied for water so thus the rights to the water passed to the Yolo County people.

So the irony... Tulare Lake used to be the largest fresh water lake in the state. Tulare Lake is GONE. Its now the Tulare basin, and is the home of industrial farming using TRINITY RIVER WATER. Why? Because Fresno farmers use all of the San Joaquin and Kings River water and there isn't enough left for a lake, much less farming.

So they stole Trinity River water from west of the crest, pipped it back under the Klamath Mountains and dump it into the Sacramento river, suck it back out in Bryon using fish kill pumps on a massive scale, plop that water into the Delta Mendota canal, for the purposes of using federally obtained water for private enterprise, make sense?

Hehe.

So Clear Lake is now the largest (remaining) fresh water lake in the state. And the people who live on its shore do not own the water their boats float in. That water belongs to Yolo farmers and there isn't sh#t all Lake County can do about it.

DMT

DMT
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
The investor-owned (private) utilities are regulated by public utility commissions; the latter follow state law but also have to answer to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). Check out NARUC's website for plenty of info...
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
If that is the case BOBINC, then this is all a moot point and the FED's can do as they wish and instantly mandate the shut down of ALL Coal Fired PP's in the US.

Correct?

If they can't do so, why not?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
If they can't do so, why not?

bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
One could make that conclusion, Chief. There is a non-zero possibility of that, I suppose, but the chance of it happening is virtually nil given all the repercussions of such a decision. I'm still unsure of the point you are trying to make.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
Government doesn't shut down coal fired plants. They force them into early retirement.

Bullshet!

No where is the Gov't directing any shut downs of any Coal Fired PP.

The latest EPA mandate that is in serious question by the PP Industry nationwide is for future construction designs i.e. C02 Recovery requirements.



Another of Fortmental failed bullshet posts.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
Appears no one has a viable and authentic answer for JL's question....

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face

Oct 30, 2013 - 09:16am PT
THEY ARE CALLED ALTERNATIVES!

Kindly list said alternatives.

JL
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
Um, about, er, 26 years ago?

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
Appears that the FED's are seriously contemplating getting outta the TVA and giving to...


"Free Market" private ownership...

As of 2013, TVA carries $25 billion in debt, near the $30 billion debt limit imposed by Congress. The 2013–2014 budget also says that "reducing or eliminating the federal government’s role in programmes such as TVA, which have achieved their original objectives and no longer require federal participation, can help put the nation on a sustainable fiscal path" which could mean future privatization for TVA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
I hear they're going to give up the military too, something about a 500 trillion dollar debt ceiling.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Where have you been Dingus. They already have for the most part.


They are called CONTRACTORS. Just about everything in the military is now contracted out. Even the shet cleaners in the war zones.

And guess who does most of the Security for all the high ranking "O's", diplomats, Congress etc etc and even the President when "in country".... you guessed it.

CONTRACTORS.

Benghazi ring a bell.

That all started during guess who's administration? NOT GW's. The dude before him. His plan was to "civilianize and socialize" the military.

We Active Duty dudes fought it tooth and nail before I retired.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
The English hired the Hessians in the Revolution. The Romans hired the Goths. Mercs are old as the hills and 'contracting it out' has always been the out for fat assed civilians. I don't accept it either.

Charlie don't surf.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
Wrong on that one DMT.


The Civ Contractors don't fight and die. They just stay back in rear and drink cocktails at your expense.


The man Clinton made sure of that.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
They don't do the dying part Fartmental. Just the cashing in on the taxpayers money.


Exactly like Dr. James Hansen the Astronomer posing as a Climate Scientist.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 30, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
"Appears no one has a viable and authentic answer for JL's question...."

Sure I do,but I was doing something you ,Chef ,are not familiar with,WORKING.

Largo,Let us start with the obvious,Solar.

Only in the last 6 years since Jimmy Carter was potus ,has it been subsidized.

Not nearly enough to get the ball rolling.YET.

Secondly,Wind,turbines,mills.[hardly subsidized]

And please do not tell me ,sometimes the wind does not blow.

If any of you have been near the Great Lakes you would know ,it screams daily,year around.

Third,Biofuels,diesel,and natural gas capture.[not subsidized]

Again ,do not tell me about ethanol,or corn derived fuels,they are just an excuse to take taxpayer money.Highly subsidized and as harmful to the planet as any out there.

Fourth,Battery development,fuel cell tech.The DOE has severely cut back on funding any of these programs.Right here in Honeoye Falls ,NY, we had a GM plant close last year .

That plant worked on Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology.Those were not floor sweeper jobs that were lost here.

Call it what you will[I know you will call it socialism],but that technology will be lost here in the states.Instead ,Japan will introduce the first hydrogen car ,and soon.

Look up "The Liquid Metal Battery".That will be a game changer for RENEWABLES.

There are others and they are not THEORIES.


Geo thermal is one ,small scale Hydro another.These are all industries ,both small and medium.

They have no significant lobbies in DC,nor the funding,or subsides of the "MACHINE" that is the FF industry.

So keep using federally subsidized FF's ,and be sure to call everyone a hypocrite ,or ,better yet a socialist.


SO THERE YOU ARE ,SHOOT EM' DOWN.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 30, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
The Civ Contractors don't fight and die.

They don't do the dying part Fartmental. Just the cashing in on the taxpayers money.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 30, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/10/30/if-all-you-see-936/
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
You do realize GARY that those dudes hanging off the bridge were each EX-DELTA and SEAL Operators. Combined having over 34 years Active Duty and some 22 years actual Combat time. Working Private Security Escort for Blackwater and their deaths initiated one of the fiercest battles in the Iraqi war. The Battle for Fallujah. They were there killing bad guys as Mercs. Fact. Way different than the avg 122,000 or so Haliburton, ITT etc contractor.



The 60 or so merc Private Sec Contractor Co's both in Iraq and Afghanville consisted of over 95% ex DELTA, SEAL and PARA-RESCUE Operators that in order to get hired on, had to have a min of 4 actual Operating tours in country prior to their employment. Tons of dudes left the DOD for these Sec jobs. The money was ten times better and they had no US gov't regulators overseeing their ops. They could what they damn well pleased.



But once again, your complete ignorance shines.
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