Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 12:48pm PT

I'm not saying emerging markets shouldn't be able to build their own economic engines. But by doing so they are significantly contributing to atmospheric CO2 levels. So let's not make a bunch of bullsh!t rationalizations to excuse the fact that they are crapping all over the environment.

Just because they remained undeveloped for most of the last century, that doesn't give them a pass on this global issue.

No they shouldn't be given a pass but the fact still is that the average American pollute more than twice as much CO2 as the average Chinese.

The western world is still the part of the world that crap all over the environment the most.

It really doesn't make any sense if developing countries should need to follow rules bases on percent of their current pollution.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:08pm PT

Using that logic, most poor people in the US have nothing to complain about, considering they're better off than most people on the planet.

Or is silly to compare a family in LA, getting by on $10K per year, to a family in Rwanda with the same income?

Not the same logic.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:14pm PT

You are still one of them Western World polluting pig Americans.

Negative

and I don't understand why that should make any difference for my arguments.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:20pm PT

Riiight.

And it's only hypocrisy when the other guy is doing it.

I don't even understand what you mean...
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
blah blah blah

The Chief, you know nothing about me. Absolutely nothing.

I am also much more for political solutions (communism like carbon tax, subventions etc) than saying that people should live in caves. Everybody need to do their share if something is going to change.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:40pm PT

Everybody!!


How are you going to MAKE everybody do their share?

Start taxing the shet outta of the POOR that have no MONEY!!!

I believe that you could understand how to do it if you looked out from your cave.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
I don't really understand what you try to say...

That politicians don't want to make unpopular decisions today do not imply that they are not going to made those decisions in the future and it is definitely no reason to just give up.

CO2 is about energy use and energy use are not going change in major ways without changing the rules of the game with politics.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 11, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
Trust these idiotIic climate commies with the fruits of our labors and restriction of our freedom; I don't think so.The science is a crock of shet- a means to the instigators ends. Only a brain dead fool like Phoole or Bruce would cooperate to their own detriment without tangible connection to reality.

raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 02:03pm PT

Trust these idiotIic climate commies with the fruits of our labors and restriction of our freedom; I don't think so.The science is a crock of shet- a means to the instigators ends. Only a brain dead fool like Phoole or Bruce would cooperate to their own detriment without tangible connection to reality.

I am finally convinced. Nice argument the use of degenerate terms just show how much you know and that you should be trusted.


raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 02:43pm PT

That's how it is with a lot of hypocrites. They're unwilling to consider their own double standards.

Sorry, but I don't follow what you are saying. Why am I a hypocrite? In what way were your logic example the same as what I said?
raymond phule

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 03:14pm PT

Using that logic, most poor people in the US have nothing to complain about, considering they're better off than most people on the planet.

Strange logic. They could of course have something to complain about even though other people have more to complain about.


Or is silly to compare a family in LA, getting by on $10K per year, to a family in Rwanda with the same income?

This one is even stranger because the worth of money is different in different parts of the world.

My point was how to consider a change from a low baseline and the importance to consider the per capita value, neither of your example show anything similar.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 11, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
Ten new hard-coal power stations, or 7,985 megawatts, are scheduled to start producing electricity in the next two years.
Steag GmbH started Germany’s first new power plant fueled by hard coal in eight years

That's what you call building them "as fast as they can?" They sound pretty efficient considering the fact that the average capacity of a US coal plant is ~500 megawatts (compared to ~800 megawatts).
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 11, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
The science is a crock of shet
Then why complain about China?
I know ... because you're too stupid to see the inconsistency.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 13, 2014 - 12:31am PT
All of which means: Those who deny climate change, and through their denial, help to worsen it ... well, at least they're giving us more evidence for evolution.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/04/your_inner_fish_book_and_pbs_documentary_on_tiktaalik_and_neil_shubin.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 13, 2014 - 09:26am PT
The new report shows that developed countries, including Canada, have managed to reduce emissions in recent years, but that this is more than offset by a growth in emissions by emerging economies including India and China, and by an overall increase in coal consumption.

But if emissions are tagged to the countries where the products that are made by generating greenhouse gasses are actually consumed, the picture changes substantially, said Jack Rice, chief scientist with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and one of the Canadian authors of the report.

“We have not reduced our emissions at all,” from that perspective, said Dr. Rice. “ We’ve exported dirty industries to the developing world.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/world-losing-ground-in-climate-battle-says-un-body/article17949953/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 14, 2014 - 10:50am PT
An analysis of temperature data since 1500 all but rules out the possibility that global warming in the industrial era is just a natural fluctuation in the earth's climate, according to a new study by McGill University physics professor Shaun Lovejoy.

The study, published online April 6 in the journal Climate Dynamics, represents a new approach to the question of whether global warming in the industrial era has been caused largely by man-made emissions from the burning of fossil fuels. Rather than using complex computer models to estimate the effects of greenhouse-gas emissions, Lovejoy examines historical data to assess the competing hypothesis: that warming over the past century is due to natural long-term variations in temperature.

"This study will be a blow to any remaining climate-change deniers," Lovejoy says. "Their two most convincing arguments - that the warming is natural in origin, and that the computer models are wrong - are either directly contradicted by this analysis, or simply do not apply to it."

Lovejoy's study applies statistical methodology to determine the probability that global warming since 1880 is due to natural variability. His conclusion: the natural-warming hypothesis may be ruled out "with confidence levels great than 99%, and most likely greater than 99.9%."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140411153453.htm
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00382-014-2128-2
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Apr 15, 2014 - 09:49am PT
Climate Efforts Falling Short, U.N. Panel Says

In a report unveiled here, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found that decades of foot-dragging by political leaders had propelled humanity into a critical situation, with greenhouse emissions rising faster than ever. Though it remains technically possible to keep planetary warming to a tolerable level, only an intensive push over the next 15 years to bring those emissions under control can achieve the goal, the committee found.


The intergovernmental panel warned that the longer countries delayed aggressive action, the more difficult it would be to limit global warming to the level that the international community has agreed to, namely a rise in the global average temperature of no more than 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius) above the preindustrial level.

Scientists fear that exceeding that level could produce drastic effects, such as the collapse of ice sheets, a rapid rise in sea levels, difficulty growing enough food, huge die-offs of forests, and mass extinctions of plant and animal species.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/14/science/earth/un-climate-panel-warns-speedier-action-is-needed-to-avert-disaster.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 15, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
Assessing the effects of anthropogenic aerosols on Pacific storm track using a multiscale global climate model
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/04/09/1403364111
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Apr 17, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
A Climate Report to America – by Ray Grigg
April 16, 2014

Scientists — those specialists who explain to us how the world works — are becoming increasingly alarmed about our slow and inadequate response to the threat of global climate change. Their scientific evidence has confirmed an unfolding crisis that is serious enough for them to address their concerns directly to the public. One such example of this highly unusual appeal is a report to the citizens of the United States from the Climate Science Panel of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS). It joins similar appeals from the Royal Society, the Royal Institution, the US National Academy of Sciences, the US Geological Survey, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and national science bodies from about 30 other countries.

The AAAS report, What We Know: The Reality, Risks and Response to Climate Change, is not so much a scientific document as a restrained plea containing a mixture of indisputable evidence, considered advice and reasoned warnings. The impact of this report comes from its tone of sincerity, exasperation and constrained alarm.

The report begins by making clear that no essential doubt exists in the scientific community about the reality or severity of global climate change. It rejects the argument that “climate change is still a topic of significant scientific disagreement” by declaring that “about 97% of climate scientists have concluded that human-caused climate change is happening.” Then the tone darkens. “Thus,” it asserts, “it is important and increasingly urgent” for the public to be “aware that climate change is increasing the likelihood of certain local disasters”. Then the tone gets even darker. “Many people do not yet understand that there is a small, but real chance of abrupt, unpredictable and potentially irreversible changes with highly damaging impacts on people in the United States and around the world.”

Two powerful phrases explode from the early portions of this report. One of them is “important and increasingly urgent”. The other is a “real chance of abrupt, unpredictable and potentially irreversible changes”. These are much more than casual expressions of concern. To emphasize the seriousness of the situation, “abrupt, unpredictable and potentially irreversible” is repeated throughout the report. Humanity’s failure to curb greenhouse gas emissions — now 36 billion tonnes per year and continuing to increase — is moving climate change toward critical and uncontrollable instability. And worse, the AAAS scientists admit that they don’t know where the dangerous tipping point is located.

But scientists do know many things. “Average global temperature has increased by about 1.4°F [0.66°C] over the last 100 years,” they note. “Sea level is rising, and some types of extreme events — such as heat waves and heavy precipitation events — are happening more frequently. Recent scientific findings indicate that climate change is likely responsible for the increase in the intensity of many of these events in recent years.” The report goes on to add that “Earth’s climate is on a path to warm beyond the range of what has been experienced over the past millions of years” and that “the CO2 we produce accumulates in Earth’s atmosphere for decades, centuries, and longer.” From a human perspective, therefore, climate change is essentially permanent.

This unprecedented situation is in stark contrast with public opinion. “In 2013,” according to the AAAS, “only 42% of American adults understood that ‘most scientists think global warming is happening’ and 33% said, ‘there is a lot of disagreement among scientists about whether or not global warming is happening.’ Twenty percent said they ‘don’t know enough to say’.” From the perspective of the AAAS scientists who are measuring an unfolding climate crisis, a majority of Americans are either misreading the science or are the victims of invented doubt.

In an effort to communicate directly to the ordinary American, the report employs language and metaphors they are likely understand. “The science linking human activities to climate change is analogous to the science linking smoking to lung and cardiovascular diseases,” it states. And “greenhouse gases have supercharged the climate just as steroids supercharged hitting in Major League Baseball.” The AAAS goes on to remind Americans about their tradition of insuring their homes and lives against loss, and then explains that cutting greenhouse gas emissions is really a similar risk-reduction action. It returns again and again to the possibility of “abrupt, unpredictable and potentially irreversible [climate change].”

In describing the other possible theories accounting for climate change, the report carefully explains that no other factors except the recent rise in atmospheric carbon dioxide from 280 parts per million to 400 ppm accounts for the planet’s warming. It notes that “in the U.S., new record high temperatures now regularly outnumber new record lows by a ratio of 2:1,” adding that “since 1950, heat waves worldwide have become longer and more frequent” and that “the global area hit by extremely hot summertime temperatures has increased 50-fold” with the “fingerprint of global warming… firmly identified in these trends.” It warns that “climate change has amplified the threat of wildfires in many places”, including “some regions where they have been absent in recent history”, and anticipates an increased “threat of ‘mega-fires’ — large fires that burn proportionately greater areas.” It reminds Americans that rising sea levels are threatening many coastal towns, cities and regions — particularly Florida. It advises of the northward movement of serious tropical diseases and refers to the concern of “senior officers and officials in the U.S. Department of Defence” about the increased military threats arising from climate-induced social instability. It endorses the IPCC’s position that present emission rates “could cause another 4 to 8° F [1.6 to 3.8°C] warming before the year 2100.”

This is a document that carefully and calmly informs. In doing so, however, it also manages to convey a desperate, pleading and chilling tone. It’s written by American scientists who are so alarmed about an unfolding climate crisis that their only recourse is to write an honest and frank report to their fellow citizens. But it also make sober reading for everyone else.

http://tidechange.ca/2014/04/16/a-climate-report-to-america-by-ray-grigg/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
Aren't we missing over a thousand posts on this thread? What coward erased their presence?
Messages 14021 - 14040 of total 20087 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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