Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Messages 10841 - 10860 of total 26648 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:23am PT
That must then make you Bruce one bigass piece of walking horse shet.


Ah thats what I love about you Huff n' Chuff! No pretensions of anything for you. Honey Badgers be Honey Badgers. You're on fire this morning - Did your monthly redistribution of wealth rejuvenate your bank account or something?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:29am PT
NO ONE denies climate changes,, always has/will..Despite wasting money and all manner of "studies"..But the fact that the "GREAT PAUSE" goes on unexplained is one GIANT LEAP for CC types. And ill bet dimes to donuts you cant tell a .09 degree of difference on yur face any day.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:37am PT
NO ONE denies climate changes,,

Ah we're back on STEP TWO!!!!111111111

(even if there IS climate change humans aren't causing it...)

NO ONE denies the Three Step Shuffle.

DMT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:38am PT
goes on unexplained

No, it doesn't. You're not even trying to read, are you? Just repeating yourself loudly.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:42am PT
you cant tell a .09 degree of difference on yur face any day.

.09 Rong? Do you mean 0.9? Orders of magnitude matter. You have been corrected on that several times, and you seem to insist on screwing it up every time. Why?

And wtf does the sensitivity of one's face have to do with mean global temperatures?

YOU SAID 7 AND 1/2 APPLES. I DON'T SEE ANY HALF APPLES.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 4, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
Ron, multiple choice:

What happens when you increase the temperature of melting ice by 0.9 degree Celsius?

A) The ice melts twice as fast
B) The ice refreezes
C) It is physically impossible to increase the temperature of melting ice
D) I don't see any half apples
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 4, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
I am not sorry foes, i will not dance to your tune, or participate by the rules of your well practiced system of personal destruction. You are not my audience, just the means to reach them. Dr. F moved my original post to this thread from another. The inevitable attacks ensued, i gave back almost as good as i got. Many months ago declaring i am going to win this little argument. I believe it was Norton who requested me to show what I've got. My response; I'm not going in blind like Custer to be massacred. No, the battlefield must be carefully surveyed, all intelligence gathered, the enemy probed, this could take years.

There are deep troubles in the CAGW cult, not the least of which is that the weather is not cooperating. One spectacular prediction after another has failed- hundreds of millions were already supposed to have died from heat that supposedly should have risen in tandem with atmospheric CO2 content, this hasn't happened the limited absorption bandwidth of the mythical molecule has been saturated and the higher frequency heat radiation can't reradiate downwards but instead is conducting upwards out of the atmosphere towards the cold of space-now there is some physics in need of reevaluation and reinterpretation of the Stephan-Boltzmann law used as a construct to artificially and unsatisfactorily close Maxwell's equations. The Sea levels were met to rise several feet by now, according to the likes of Gore and Hansen, swamping low lying island nations such as The Maldives and Tuvulu Islands-this hasn't happened, in fact studies show that 87% of the Tuvlu's are stable or rising. The Poles melting were meant to have accelerated with an ice free Arctic already and whole Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets sliding off into the Sea- this hasn't happened, instead the Antarctic, contrary to prediction, is cooling and ice mass, especially in sea ice extent, is growing. The Arctic is at the end of warm cycles of the PDO and NAO, last year a severe Arctic cyclone broke up the ice in August and compacted it into restricted areas, it did not all melt, this year above 80 degrees north has been unusually cold and the storms of 2012 have not yet repeated with the result being that sea ice extent is recovering. Greenland is right back to normal temperatures without the surface melt the compliant media relentlessly hyped in 2012. Tornado's were meant to be more frequent and severe, droughts deepening and permanent, Hurricanes increasing in frequency and severity. Well it has been one of the quietest years for Tornado's in years, in fact discounting the increase of developed areas and the consequent property and life destruction of a relative few outbreaks, the frequency of Tornado's is decreasing compared to early decades of the 20th century. The drought's in the lower Midwest and southwest seems to have been drenched in repeated torrential downpours this year. Hurricane season has been unusually quiet for nearly a decade, there hasn't been a category four or larger hurricane make landfall in the U.S. since Katrina. The world over, scientists are acknowledging that the global mean average temperature ( if there could ever be such a thing) has plateaued and by many accounts is heading downwards. I could go on and on.

There are deep problems in the IPCC process and it's continued existence is in question as one country after another has pulled out of Kyoto and many others are demanding rewrites of AR5. Scientists are in open revolt, many previously high profile CAGW proponents have jumped ship-look at Judith Curry's story. The trickle of papers that the CAGW industry previously did their best to limit has turned into a torrent. Every aspect of the theory is being challenged, every region's proxy data reconstruction being reevaluated. The little ice age, medieval warm period, roman warm period are being revalidated and returning in a vengeance. The models are not getting better, the errors they exhibit in hind casting emphasized over and over, the flaws in the models predictives versus observed empirical evidence shown again and again.

Yet, our bureaucracy, our politicians, our corporate giants and ultra wealthy "intellectuals", our decreasing number of CAGW cult scientists are now engaged in a last gasp effort to impose a scheme of "necessarily skyrocketing" energy regulation and replacement by wholly inadequate "green energy" produced by not ready for prime time wind farms and solar arrays that cover thousands of square miles of land, degrade the environment and aesthetics, costs hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars and produce on an intermittent basis only 3% of our energy. This scheme, if allowed to accelerate, will not only render our remaining industry unprofitable, but will result in huge job loss and impoverish our middle class into indentured servitude.

Now is the time to turn this thing around. Even the mainstream media is waking up and beginning to acknowledge the problems and failings of climate science. There is hope for a bright future, while this debate has been raging natural evolution and market forces, despite government resistance, has resulted in new technologies in FF energy location and safe extraction to the point we now have at least a hundred year supply of clean burning natural gas ( 50% less CO2 emission and much less other real pollutants) that is naturally supplanting coal in energy generation. Our vehicles can also be fueled by NG starting with the commercial truck fleet. A new generation of nuclear technology has resulted in designs that are virtually failsafe and reprocess and reuse fuel to the point that spent fuel is only dangerous for a decade rather than thousands of years. We have much geothermal potential in this country and it is currently being expanded. The tens of billions of dollars wasted on the "prophets of Doom" singing the "gospels of doom" would be much better spent on research and development for real and viable next generation clean technology that is competitive with our current energy mix.

There is a best selling book in Germany- English language title translation of The Neglected Sun- that has become a bestseller and is waking up the population to the wrongness of the CAGW science and the dangers of the implementation of carbon taxation and shortcomings of the replacement of energy production with windmills and solar. One of its authors was previously an executive in the wind energy industry. Anyway the book will be available here in America shortly and should be quite eye opening. Any fence sitters out there that are willing to climb down on this side? If so PM me with your mailing addresses and i will buy and amazon copies to the first ten people.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Extensive review of the history of the sun and climate change science.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#312885
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
If only there were 100 years of reproducible experiments that clearly show how increased CO2 affects air temperature...
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Aug 4, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
A readable and reality-based alternative to Rick's long rant above, this article from two days ago in the Financial Times:

What climate scientists talk about now
...
But there is one thing the final version
[of the forthcoming IPCC 5th Assessment Report] must include when it is published next month, according to Sir Bob Watson, the British scientist and climate action advocate who chaired the IPCC for nearly six years up to 2002. “I think the current Working Group I report must address in detail the slowing down in the last 10 years,” he said, adding that although the past three decades were probably the warmest in 1,000 years, “there is also no question that it would appear that the rate of change in the last decade or so is definitely slower than the previous two decades.”

“The IPCC must address this because the climate deniers are linking on to this as a reason to say we’ve got all the science wrong. So I think one of the very most important issues is indeed for them to address this issue absolutely head on.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/4084c8ee-fa36-11e2-98e0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2b1z1z01m
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
Ed, I certainly don't mean to start any sh#t with you. I enjoy and respect ur posts immensely!!
It just seemed odd coming from you. But what do I know? If big brother can do it so can you as far as I'm concerned. So go for it!

The only prize to win here, is respect.


Rick, I think ur post was outstanding! My address is in the mail!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:46am PT
Wrong Ed,, not "everyone with a modicum of science". Not by a long shot.. That is yet another popular and rather out right lie being told by many. Believed by fewer and fewer.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:18am PT
^^ That's why you make the bigbucks Ed.

So science has proven that the way we are burning fossil fuels is detrimental to the ozone.
is science doing working on anything to adjust what's coming out of the tailpipe? Like changing the manner inwhich we burn it, or adding something to the gastank to negate what comes out the pipe? I don't know,I'm guessing. I just wondered if we're trying to fix the problem at the root, other than going in a whole different direction. Like solar, or wind or whatever.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:20am PT
Temp this morning at Mosquito Flats PL @ 0630, 31 degs F. As I hiked to one of my favorite "honey holes" @just a little over 11K to play with my buddy Brookies, I encountered several puddles along the trail. Most were covered with and some were actually solid ICE! Got to my honey hole only to find 1/2 of it covered in a thin coating of.... ICE! Let's not forget that this is the 4th AUG! Just a little past the middle of SUMMER. Forty something years of climbing and fishing in these parts and I have never encountered ICED puddles nor on top of lakes ICED OVER this time of the year. Never.

Oh how it is getting warmer.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:24am PT
well thee ya go Ed , concentrating on your angles and suits, and that is natural eh? However, in your educated SNOOTY way, yes ,, snooty, you will dismiss any other attributes such as COMMON friggin sense or a large knowledge of things not your bailiwick such as flora and fauna. Or just excusing ANY "SCIENTISTS" that disagree with your take. Thus the "everyone" phrase and you and i both know thats far from the case. And as youve rubbed my nose in the mathematical end of your posts repeatedly, and obviously im NOT the mathematician you are by any means, i then concentrate on things I know and have some actual expertise in.. Chances are fairly good that ive forgotten more about fires and fire ecology than youve known. (rubbin yur nose in it) And as far as wildlife,, its been my life since i was in the single digits in age. And all of the above has been mentioned, used by, or been a flagship of CC. When a cause uses these falsified flagships , it IS a direct indicator of things that may just smell. Hell you even kinda jumped on my FAT people JOKE and how CC was involved now didnt ya. It made you actually think there "could be something there" LMAO! Fer craps sake man, i went fishin and caught a 170 lb sucker!;-)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:27am PT

...the science is not a question of belief, it is a question of data and the organizing science, and where ever that leads is where a scientist will follow, even if that path wasn't what was expected.

^^ that is correct, but one must ask also; from wherest did the motiv come from to produce said science
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:28am PT
Worse, if I do the calculation, you couldn't tell the difference if I did it right or wrong, so ultimately you're left with putting your trust in someone with no criteria to guide you...

So now ED H is stating that Science is the law of the Universe. Sounds like a fking religion ED.

Get over yourselves, ED, DRF, CHILOE etal. YOU ARE NOT GODS nor do you know shet about anything. You think you do. But in the Big Picture of it all, you don't.


the science is not a question of belief, it is a question of data and the organizing science, and where ever that leads is where a scientist will follow, even if that path wasn't what was expected.

So far that data you speak of ED is way off. In other words, full of shet propaganda. Data is not infallible ED. Nor is your science.

Science is just a human thought process. It is NOT the Universal Law. Don't claim it as such.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:35am PT
Chief,, a couple of buddies of mine were up at little indian valley near MRKL about 7200. Frost and frozen water bottles in the am. Aug 2..
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:36am PT
Blue blocker - As you can see Ron Anderson and CHuff make no pretenses of following the science. Rick however does. So what exactly did you find so outstanding about Ricks post? If you found that one outstanding, I'd ezpect you'd find most of his posts outstanding. He stated what he always states only this time with the volume of a small telephone book. So what set this one apart? His assertiveness? same. His rhetorical style? Same again.

Perhaps you found this outstanding:

I am not sorry foes, i will not dance to your tune, or participate by the rules of your well practiced system of personal destruction.

Bizarre and obtuse use of language I know but If you decipher this into english he says:

"Examining my own motivations and ideologies in regard to how it may effect what I chose to believe about global warming makes me very nervous and my "intuition" tells me that I should avoid it like the plague. However I realize I cannot admit to this particular form of intellectual cowardice so I instead feign outrage at being expected to engage in a subject which I will now attempt to dismiss as irrelevant."

You see Rick will tell you himself that he dosn't have the skill or knowledge to critique the science, so all his critiquing of the science can only result in a volume of opinion that is by definition of low value. Yet curiously he holds firm contrarian beliefs anyway. Considering this, he is a prime candidate - if he had the intellectual courage that is - to take a critical look at his own motivations and ideological imperatives as a possible explanation.

We have offered to help him in this regard but as you can see he choses to define this perfectly relevant challenge as an outrageously undignified assault on his sovereign right to believe anything he likes without robust substantiation.

So perhaps that is what you find outstanding?
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