Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 12, 2014 - 05:20pm PT
No 'polar vortex' here: Record heat grips Australia killing thousands of animals

Published time: January 09, 2014 22:17
Edited time: January 10, 2014 12:40 Get short URL




While the US is stricken by freezing cold, Australia is suffering a record heat with temperatures approaching 50C (122F) in some parts of the country and leaving thousands of animals dead.

A wave of stifling heat started began around Christmas and continues to move counterclockwise across Australia's north and into the south. The latest scorcher comes on the heel of Australia’s hottest year on record.

High temperatures are now shifting into Western Australia, with large areas being “under extreme heatwave to severe heatwave.”

"Certainly looking at the forecast over the next week, it's looking like that heat is going to continue," Karly Braganza of the Bureau of Meteorology has told the AP.

Already in January, 10 heatwave conditions are expected to expand eastwards and reach parts of South Australia.

Since December 27, temperature records have been set at 34 locations across Australia, according to the Bureau.

With the absence of monsoon rains in Australia's north last summer the entire continent endured its hottest year since records began in 1910, the Bureau of Meteorology said last week. The late arrival of the monsoon in northern Australia, which has a cooling effect, is contributing to the extreme heat, Braganza said, adding that global warming also has a role in this.

The soaring temperatures have caused death and illness for thousands of animals across the country.

Bats are said to be dropping from trees en masse and kangaroos are collapsing.

"It's an enormous animal welfare concern," Louise Saunders, president of the Queensland animal welfare group Bat Conservation and Rescue told AP.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 12, 2014 - 09:24pm PT

Sorry boys and girls. Instead of jawboning about increased emmisions of CO2 i was out doing something about, one little bastard emmitter at a time.Sauteed with mushrooms, oinions, wine, butter, and on a bed of brown rice, Chukar make a most delicious meal. The scenery is magnificient out here in the great basin.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 12, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
Sorry Rick...Rons already hunted that area out...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 12, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
Shotgun but no snowshoes..? Don't you ever check the forecast...?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/25020

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/legislative_reports/fcce-report-to-congress.pdf

Okay for all you keyboard junkies, peruse and chew on this summation of funding for 1998=2009 of 99 billion dollars and the presidents office funding for CC from 2012-2012. This is only the obvious funding . I'm sure there are many billions more from the hay days of earmarking. I know Ted Stevens frustrated with the fed bureaucracies endless attacks and shutdowns of Alaskan industry was of the mind if your going to shut down are liviehood your damn well going to pay for it. He built the UA environmental science program with hundreds of millions of dollars in earmarks, also fisheries studies, forestry studies, direct compensation- if you cant beat them then beat them on there own game was the attitude. These figures do not count the many additional billions of dollars funding CC coming from environmental NGO's, private foundations, billionaires, state, and local governments etc. For you zealots out there-try to match the imagined opposition funding dollar for dollar.We can talk more in depth about ethics, or the lack thereof, after you've completed your funding studies.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 13, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
Ah Dingus, you can quit playing Thorne's game and hit table mtn or the Valley for actual challenges eh?! Sure as hell would be more memorable and more akin to life eh?!!

hit that sh!t!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
The Chief, rick, Sketch.

Go ahead, deny this:




Antarctic Glacier's 'Irreversible' Melting Threatens 'Considerable Increase' to Sea Level Rise

New study on Pine Island Glacier shows 'striking vision of the near future,' says co-author
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 13, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
What are the social , scientific, and business costs of Ed's assertion of unrealized costs of FF's , due to environmental and human impacts and mitigation costs, if natural variability , as it is currently demonstrating, turns out to far exceed the small human contribution. I know Ed doesn't mind gambling with the private populace's money and livlihoods since he and most everyone close to him feel insulated in their positions inside government bureacracy. Are the private sector members of you here really interested in fully participating in his gamble? Off to the basin for some healthy obsessions.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 13, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
I read somewhere that the melt-water produced from Pine Island Glacier in 2012 was about half that of 2010.
That "somewhere" was probably telling Sketch about an article in the 10 January issue of Science, which reported Pine Island Glacier melting decreased 53% from Jan 2010 to Jan 2012 (from about 80 to 37 cubic km/year of meltwater production). The paper asks why:
However, conditions in the months leading up to the 2012 observations were unusual (see also supplementary materials). Most of 2011 was marked by strong easterly wind anomalies over the Amundsen Sea (Fig. 4, A and B), weakening the typically cyclonic wind stress curl over the continental shelf (Fig. 4B) and curtailing the westerlies north of the shelf edge that are thought to enhance onshore CDW transport (21). Integrated over the preceding year, the zonal wind north of the continental shelf even reversed to easterly in 2011 (red line in Fig. 4B), an occurrence that is unique in the reanalysis wind record dating back to 1979
The paper k-man references upthread is a newer piece just published in Nature Climate Change. I haven't read the new paper yet but here's a report written from the authors' materials. This report starts out by referencing the earlier Science article.
Barely two weeks after a report in Science suggested that La Nina had slowed the melt rate of the Pine Island Glacier in Antarctica, new research by French scientists published in Nature Climate Change suggests that the glacier may be in irreversible decline and could, on its own, contribute to a sea level rise of up to 1cm in the next 20 years.
...
Pine Island Glacier is the Antarctic glacier which contributes most to the rise in sea level. An international team of researchers led by the Laboratoire de Glaciologie et Géophysique de l’Environnement (Laboratory of Glaciology and Environmental Geophysics LGGE) in France has shown that this contribution could grow by between three and five times in the next twenty years increasing sea levels by up to 10mm. Scientists have also shown that the glacier is receding irreversibly and that it would, in all likelihood, not return to its initial state. Their work was published on 12 January 2014 on the website of the journal Nature Climate Change.

For twenty years now, the West Antarctic has contributed significantly to the rise in sea level. Pine Island Glacier, located in the western part of Antarctica is the largest contributor to this increase: it alone represents nearly 25% of the contribution of West Antarctic melt water. The edge receded ten kilometers from the 2000s and the glacier is tending to thin more. The eastern part of Antarctica remains in equilibrium for now (that is, the amount of ice that accumulates is equal to that lost snow glaciers feeding).
...
Scientists have relied on three of the latest generation of computer models of flow of the ice in the polar caps. All three models shows that the glacier is likely to be unstable and will continue to recede for at least forty kilometers over the next fifty years. The mass loss associated with this irreversible decline is expected to increase significantly from the average value of 20 gigatonnes per year observed during the period 1992 to 2011, up to 120 gigatonnes per year over fifty years modeled. Thus, its annual contribution to rising sea levels could rise by three to five times. This loss would result in an increase in sea level ranging between 3.5 and 10 mm in the next twenty years.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 13, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
Incidentally, the geography of the Pine Island Glacier (PIG, to its friends), which is a focus of the new NCC paper and the reason the authors consider its decline "irreversible," was also described by Richard Alley in his AGU talk on abrupt climate change, which I mentioned here briefly last month.

As the PIG grounding line retreats past a submarine ridge it will then be above deeper water, losing physical stability. The next stable geography lies many kilometers farther back, so a lot of ice could be dumped into the sea quickly once the current threshold is crossed. That is where the new NCC study sees a potentially large contribution to sea level rise in this century.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
Record heat grips Australia killing thousands of animals



While the US is stricken by freezing cold, Australia is suffering a record heat with temperatures approaching 50C (122F) in some parts of the country and leaving thousands of animals dead.


A wave of stifling heat started began around Christmas and continues to move counterclockwise across Australia's north and into the south. The latest scorcher comes on the heel of Australia’s hottest year on record.

High temperatures are now shifting into Western Australia, with large areas being “under extreme heatwave to severe heatwave.”

"Certainly looking at the forecast over the next week, it's looking like that heat is going to continue," Karly Braganza of the Bureau of Meteorology has told the AP.

Already in January, 10 heatwave conditions are expected to expand eastwards and reach parts of South Australia.

Since December 27, temperature records have been set at 34 locations across Australia, according to the Bureau.
raymond phule

climber
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:17pm PT

I hoped you guys all enjoyed my replication of the CAGW crowds patterns of reality denial i demonstrated over Ed's graphs depicting multiple measurements of decadal trends in tropospheric and stratospheric temp changes. Here is the pattern- 1. Deny the reality of what is shown. 2. When forced to acknowledge change the parameters ( in this case pick an atmospheric level sympathetic to your interpretation) then claim statistical insignificance of contrary evidence while highlighting evidence supporting your position. 3. The final step in the process is to completely discount all the information as being from as biased from an unreliable source.

What I saw was that you couldn't read a simple graph, didn't understand the y-scale and after several tries still couldn't read out the information found in the graph.

Everything as expected of course.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
Did you hear?
Did you hear?
This is the sound of Sketch eager to share (without admitting the source) what he's just been fed by WUWT.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jan 13, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
the cheapness of Natural Gas is only relative, as the current processes for extracting it are certainly more expensive than drilling a hole straight down into the reserve. The increased expenses of all fossil fuel sources has created a market for those less available resources (such as sand tars). Which gives yet another incentive for finding alternative energy sources, that is, the eventual depletion of fossil fuels.

Ed, where did you get that information?

Also, Sketch, where did you get that information regarding our increasing oil reserves?

I assure you that companies try very hard to drill wells which cover finding costs. I've been in the meetings. If your wells don't pay out, you won't be around for very long.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 13, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
"Are the private sector members of you here really interested in participating in his gamble"


Yes.

The only gamble here is not doing anything about CC. The only thing that could be worse than this "Gamble",is to side with you and yours.

You deniers have nothing left but to deny science and those who support it.

Remember,focus on the uncertainties,never mind what is proven.

Real honest ,the whole lot of you.







56f here today,january 13 2014.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
Awe come on Chloe.
Don't be like that.
Just because another climate scientist/expert further demonstrated his smarts.... that's no reason to get pissy.
Not pissy at all, Sketch, just laughing at you.

But to demonstrate your smarts ... parroting blogs does not work, do you have a train of thought here? Feel free to articulate that in your own words.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 13, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
Yeah,It was near 60f the day before the "polar vortex" at -16f,and now 56.

I know it is only weather,but we have had 4 inches of rain in 2014.

Shifts in weather,or are they extremes?Our BC.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 13, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
I'm sure you prefer that over discussing how another climate expert (your people) is getting his just desserts for being a self-important dumbf*ck.
That is your train of thought? You just failed at mind-reading and the show-smarts test.
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