Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jul 30, 2013 - 10:16am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Here a perfect example of US stupidity proliferating itself,


There, fixed it for you Honey Badger
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Chief Running Mouth apparently never gets tired of making himself look stoopid.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jul 30, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Chief Running Mouth apparently never gets tired of making himself look stoopid
I see it as:

Chief Running Mouth apparently never gets tired of demonstrating his stoopidity
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jul 30, 2013 - 10:43am PT
The Pest, when I was but a grub we would make sport of wasp nests we found. Before garden hosing them out of existence, we'd practice our swing by batting the aerial vermin out of the sky. Little 'pling!'s would resound amidst laughter. Much like this thread, you living freaking joke!

The Wasp?! Ha Ha Ha!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jul 30, 2013 - 11:11am PT
Interesting article on the left / right divide here. A sample:


Why do liberals seem to care more about the environment than conservatives? One influential explanation holds that left and right-wing people approach moral questions from profoundly different perspectives. Research by New York University psychologist Jonathan Haidt and others forms the basis for "moral foundations theory," which breaks down human morality into distinct categories.

People who identify as politically liberal tend to have strong emotional reactions to questions of "care/harm" (protecting vulnerable elements of society) and "fairness/cheating" (making sure that justice is upheld).

Environmental arguments often evoke both. For instance: "Alberta oil sands firms are not held accountable (fairness/cheating) for their contribution to a warming climate that will ultimately harm the planet's poorest people (care/harm)."

The logical left-wing reaction is to demand strict limits on oil sands emissions. But that climate change solution can provoke strong emotional reactions from people who identify as politically right-wing.

That's because conservative morality tends to emphasize questions of "loyalty/betrayal" (staying true to your cultural group), "authority/subversion" (upholding long-held institutions) and "sanctity/degradation" (fending off defilement).

So the right-wing response to oil sands limits might be: "Since all Canadians benefit from our oil and gas industry (loyalty/betrayal), we shouldn't restrict free markets (authority/subversion) to limit a naturally-occurring, odorless gas (sanctity/degradation)."

These types of emotional reactions are so deeply ingrained in our psyches we often don't realize they're affecting our perceptions.

Yet getting conservatives concerned about global warming means liberals need to first recognize their own moral biases, and how the climate arguments they make can reinforce them.

"We all have gut-level reactions to things," Ravi Iyer, a University of Southern California researcher who's collaborated with Haidt, told The Tyee. "It's good to realize that we're all kind of irrational."

from here: http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/07/29/Conservatives-and-Climate-Change/



It illustrates the difference in values but it fails to zero in on the fundamental flaw in that the ultimate divide is one of attitude. It is a difference of how you determine ideology - reality based or faith based. The problem lies with the title - "How to Talk to a Conservative about Climate Change".

You really can't because the implications of aknowledging such a reality threaten conservative (right wing) values, which is unacceptable due to cultural loyalty. It dosn't matter how "reality based" your argument is, it will never be accepted. This is the real flaw in the liberal mind set - to assume that right wingers can ever be swayed by reason or evidence where it conflicts with their ideological values.

Chuffs values all revolve around a freaky bizarre sado masochistic adoration of primal darwinian survival of the fittest domination of the strong and destruction of the weak, which is why he actually looks forward to anything apocolyptic, so that his ideal can finally be put into action and all the weak scum can be scrubbed finally from the face of the earth and dominant can rightfully assert themselves.

Other right wingers prefer not quite so brazen or obvious an embrace of meanness, so essentially the same values are cloaked in vague allusions to trickle down / status quo stuff.

There is no hope in a tactic of "convincing" right wingers. The only chance is locking them out of the decision making process. Low odds I know but the alternative is always to allow stupidity and meaness a seat at the table.


This comment on the above article sums it up well:


"Faith conquers all !" Economic theories and monetary values are not based on physical realities, but are pseudo religious mental programming to make people follow beliefs. The word "conservative" really means "believer"

There are no such things as "monetary efficiency", "cost cutting" and "cheaper", only physical efficiency and real, physical cost transfers on on others, the environment and the future. These gimmicks are used to mislead people with fraudulent accounting systems to "believe" and enslave their programmed minds to follow and ignore realities.

It makes no difference what coloured flags the sellers and buyers of faith based mental programming are waving. The intents and results are always the same: power into the hands of history's traditional One Percent ruling classes. I have experienced the same faith based mental programming under fascism, nazism, communism, and capitalism, all of them denying human rights and physical realities.because they're all psychologically programming people to "follow" and "believe", exactly the same way as the suicide bombers who believe that by killing a few "infidel" will earn them quick passage to the 7th level of heaven.

When a society permits the gamblers at the stockmarkets to control the lives of billions with imaginary figures, they automatically dismiss realities. And most of our ideological /economic systems have always been are built on ignorance and faiths in the impossible.
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 30, 2013 - 11:52am PT
There is no hope in a tactic of "convincing" right wingers. The only chance is locking them out of the decision making process. Low odds I know but the alternative is always to allow stupidity and meaness a seat at the table.

Oh soooooooooo typical Bruce Kay and right on cue.


This fairs far better to the truth of this hoax and scam.

Despite claims by global warming alarmists that the “debate is over”, “the science is settled” and that there is a “consensus” among scientists that global warming is real, there are countless scientific studies that have contradicted this theory. A minimal amount of research will locate such studies, conducted by individuals and institutions as highly credentialed and respected as any of those who are trying to prove the existence of global warming. Recently, the New York Times – normally a strong supporter of the global warming lobby – revealed that a scientific study shows a slower rise in temperature on the Earth’s surface over the past 15 years than over the previous 20 years. The Times then attempted to brush this off by suggesting that the rate of global warming is erratic.

This is the usual tactic of global warming fanatics – and is why there are many reasons not to trust them: Despite their claims that the science is “settled”, whenever a study throws doubt on their theory, they then turn around and use the excuse that climate science is not, after all, an exact science. In doing so, they are admitting that the science is not, therefore, “settled”.

In truth, global warming happens; it is natural. global cooling also happens; and, back in the 1970’s, we were being told that global cooling was an existential threat, just as we are told today that global warming is. A cursory look into the makeup and funding of institutions that push the global warming theory will reveal deep-rooted political connections. Ultra-wealthy George Soros, who is well-known as the money behind extreme Left-wing “news” organizations such as Media Matters for America, also pours millions into the climate change lobby. That is a connection too obvious to miss.

The demonization of those who refuse to buy the global warming hype is classic Left-wing strategy. The word “deniers” has become fashionable; a deliberate attempt to equate the “skeptics” with Holocaust “deniers”. The truth, however, is that the science is nowhere near “settled” on global warming, and the string of proven lies, inaccurate statements and outright deceptions put out by the fanatics leaves them with little credibility and should give us all plenty of reasons not to trust them.
http://guardianlv.com/2013/06/global-warming-zealots-and-three-good-reasons-not-to-trust-them/
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jul 30, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Big oil's lackey bitches. Preach on, Pest.

The chuff cycle continues: Deny, deny some more but a little differently when your pseudoscience begins to crumble, and then, finally, retreat to some nihilistic neo caveman fantasy land where you fly on the backs of wasps and people actually take you seriously.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:00pm PT

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
The Alaska presentation is old news, somewhat exaggerated , in need of a serious update minus the sensationalist hype. It looks like that meltwater photo trying to be passed off as the north pole a few days ago to me. What part of what i have been telling you guys do you not understand? The climate change is in reverse up here, has been for over a decade.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
he climate change is in reverse up here, has been for over a decade.

really?

then how do you explain all time heat records broken across Alaska last month?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
They weren't all time heat records Norton. Close but no cigar, the 1930's exceeded it a little in high temps and a lot in duration. This little heat wave immediately followed the longest delayed spring in history up here. After the little heat wave we had a two week period of cloud cover and unseasonably cool temps. Does this answer it for you Norton?

I take issue with characterization of liberals as more concerned about care/harm Bruce. They talk the talk but walk in reverse. How much of your capital has been directed towards charitable contributions to help your community. I've contributed 1.35 m over a twenty year period- all without fanfare, all towards real projects that help all.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Rick it seems many think they live up there.."Alaska state of mind" is only a song though.. Wonder why they have to falsify pics of melted surface water?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
For someone who touts how smart you are...

Sorry to disappoint you dude, but I don't tout how smart I am; just how dumb others are.

...it's surprising how socially/emotionally immature you are.

Yes, it surprises me on a daily basis.

These people you use as an example to make fun of are far, far better people than you.

Some, yes, absolutely; but not all. There was this one Down Syndrome kid in Jr. High School who forced a girl to undress in the hallway. He was a big dude with a bit of a violent streak. Luckily Mr. Wright, on his way to taking us to the principal's office for sk8ing the handrails in the main hall, found him and stopped it. I'm pretty sure I'm a "better person" than that.

They navigate life with severe cognitive impairments that aren't any fault of their own, giving 100% effort.

Some, yes, absolutely; but not all. But I think I see your point. The idiots here are clearly far behind, at least in terms of effort.


where you fly on the backs of wasps

Like riding the coat tails of White Anglo Saxon Protestants... lapping up their excrement, insisting to others it is delightfully nutritious.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Why all the personal attacks from the left side? Why all the squealing when you get it back from the Chief or others? If you can't realistically defend your dogma you have no choice i guess.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
Om afraid its QUITE TYPICAL Rick. The only thing missing here is "YUR A RACIST" ! The usual crowing of the left under pressure.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 30, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
what about these all time historic heat records, Rick?

did the weather service LIE?

Talkeetna, 75 miles north of Anchorage, reached 96 degrees. Just a day earlier, it had tied its all-time record high of 91, also set June 14, 1969 and June 26, 1953. The 96-degree high was hotter than any town in the entire state of Florida on Monday.

* McGrath hit 94 degrees, crushing its all-time record of 90 set June 15, 1969 and just tied on Sunday. A daily record high of 91 degrees for June 18 was set on Tuesday. McGrath is deep in the interior of southwest Alaska, 215 miles northwest of Anchorage.

* Cordova hit 90 degrees, breaking its record of 89 set July 16, 1995. Cordova is on the coast 145 miles east of Anchorage.

* Valdez touched 90 degrees as well, erasing its record of 87 set June 25-26, 1953. Valdez is on an arm of Prince William Sound, 120 miles east of Anchorage.

* Seward hit 88 degrees, eclipsing its all-time high of 87 set July 4, 1999. Seward is on the coast of the Kenai Peninsula, 80 miles south of Anchorage.

On Wednesday, Nome, on the state's west coast, tied its all-time record high of 86 degrees (also set on July 8, 1968 and July 31, 1977).

Alaska's two largest cities shared the heat, though without breaking records. Fairbanks has been 86 degrees or warmer Saturday through Wednesday. Anchorage's highs topped out at 81 on both Monday and Tuesday.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
The Chief quotes a Las Vegas Guardian Express OpEd as if it were scientific in nature, but cries foul when I point to a Rolling Stone article authored by a well-respected climate scientist.

Oh, the irony...
The Chief

climber
From the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 30, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
but cries foul when I point to a Rolling Stone

Cry Foul? Negative Ghostrider. Just pointed out how as the ref I cited stated, pure Left Wing dogma ideology on your side. Nothing more.

Hell, look at the immediate post from CHEEZWHIZBOMBOY. "Big Oil" ladde da bullshet. All the while the CHEEZBALL Kid puts petrol in his car and off he goes blowing C02 into the atmosphere on his way to his day of climbing.

Again, you all have the burden of proof. You all are the ones making the claim of disaster and doom. Not any of us that accept the changes as they are and are proceeding forward with our lives.

Unfortunately for you all, the fad will fade very soon when the taxpayers of this nation realize how much of their well earned money is being totally wasted on nothing less than speculation on pure bullshet.

ED:
I have no ties to the US Global Change Research Program

Pretty bad when you don't know the extent of your employers background. i.e. DOE. The DOE is knee deep with the US Global Change Research Program.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jul 30, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
Why all the personal attacks from the left side? Why all the squealing when you get it back from the Chief or others? If you can't realistically defend your dogma you have no choice i guess.


Batting pests down hardly qualifies as squealing. Oh, the irony! One of your buddies is the whiniest, unable to take his own medicine, serial posting bitches on this site. "Ping!" The other is a megalomaniac nit wit with retorts set at 12-year old poopy pants level when he starts really getting it handed to him. "Ping!"

I guess if you qualify the work of experts using empirical science as the basis of their thought as "dogma", there's not a damn thing we can do for your particular delusional bent either. "Ping!"

^^^^Hahaha. Swing, battabattabattabatta, SWING!!!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 30, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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