Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 4, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
the perfect gift

http://www.treehugger.com/climate-change/climate-models-calendar.html
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 4, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
Thanks Wade.

Do Libertarians buy gifts?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 4, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/12/04/if-all-you-see-970/
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 4, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Do Libertarians buy gifts?

no. they don't trust Santa to distribute them to those who have earned them.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth. You've drank so much of the koolaid that it might be impossible for you to comprehend, but i can assure the majority of the populace have awoken and are fed up with the idiotic CAGW community and its transparent attempt to tax and control.

Now let's talk reality about climate change.

1. The one constant of climate is change.

2, We live in an epoch called the Holocene which is an interglacial period amidst a 2.5 million period of some of Earths worst glacial conditions in its 4.5 billion year history. The average interglacial lasts 12-14 thousand years. We are due any time for a return to full glacial conditions.

3. Approximately 150 years ago we started to come out of a period known as the Little Ice Age. The average ( if their can ever be such a thing) global temperatures during the LIA was 1.5 to 2C below the holocene typical.

4. There is nothing unusual in the amount or speed of the 20th century temp increase, In fact, the approx. .9C increase since the LIA doesn't even get Earth to average temps enjoyed during the Medieval Warm Period, The Roman Warm Period, or The Holocene Optimum.

5. Numerous proxy records confirm that atmospheric CO2 increase always follows temperature increases. The lag varies from months to millenia but no credible empirical evidence or study has ever been able to refute this lag.Temperature increases trigger natural releases of CO2 from ocean and land.Temperature decreases increases the capacity of the natural ocean and land CO2 sinks and atmospheric content falls.

6. Contrary to what the CAGW wackos claim Earths atmospheric CO2 content has often exceeded today's count of 395ppm without a runaway green house event. The historic periods CO2 content was not fixed at 280 ppm, in fact measurements other than those at Mauna Kea have produced numbers above 400 ppm as early as the 1930's. There were more than 17,000 measurements prior to Mauna Kea.Reconstructions from proxy records (which don't have the resolution to show short term spikes and dips) show a content fluctuating between 210 to 350 ppm over the last 100,000 years. It is undisputed that mans contribution to current atmospheric CO2 content is only approx. 3%.

7. The primary driver of climate is the Sun. The Sun's radiation intensity (TSI) fluctuates up to 1% from periods known as grand minimum's to grand maximum's. During the modern era of satellite measurement the accepted observed 11 year Schwabe solar cycles produced variations not exceeding .2%, but this period was almost completely in one of the most intense solar grand maximums of the last 6000 years. The CAGW wackos have disengenuously adopted not this meager .2% variation, but the even more meager .1% average over the satellite era as the maximum accepted solar variation. This is untrue, from peaks at the previously mentioned Grand Maximum to the depths of Grand Minimum TSI varies up to 1%, or in other words by an order of magnitude more than it is given credit for. A solar variation of 1%, over a period of decades can have a profound effect on average temps. Concurrently with variation of TSI is more pronounced variations in the Solar magnetic field, solar wind speed, and mass ejections. Also buried in this 1% TSI variation are areas of the spectrum, particularly UV that vary up to 10%. UV radiation ionizes molecules in the upper layers of the atmosphere and affecting the troposphere in ways that are understudied, but having distinct effect. Periods of reduced solar magnetic field in turn allows more cosmic rays to penetrate the Earths atmosphere causing up to 10 times the production of cloud nuclei possibly forming increased cloudiness during periods of decreased solar activity. From satellite observation estimates the period from 1987 to 2000 had up to 5% less global cloud cover than periods before or after. This amount of reduction would lead to marked increase in surface temps due to increased radiation penetration. Interestingly this period corresponds to the height of the global warming craze.

8. Second in line for short term (decadal to annual) climate drivers are ocean oscillations. The oceans absorb and store exponentially larger amounts of solar radiation than the atmosphere. These have positive phases warming the atmosphere and negative phases cooling the atmosphere. Some of these phases can be rapid and intense like the ENSO of 1998 which caused an immediate spike in global average temperature, or the positive phase change of the PDO in the 1970's that caused an immediate spike in the northeastern pacific, Chukchi, Beaufort and Arctic ocean and land surface
areas. For the last 12 years the PDO has been in negative phase and temperatures in Alaska have decreased an average of 2.4 degrees at 19 out 20 first order weather stations.

TO BE CONTINUED







Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
Rick, will you please show the link to that source posting so I can read the entire article?

thanks
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
The primary driver of climate is the Sun.

That's like blaming the mass of a car for the accident, instead of the drunk driver.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 5, 2013 - 08:08am PT
Chef,no record cold temps,just record warmth today.

I suppose that does not count with you and yours.

There is a conspiracy allright:

Credit: wilbeer
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2013 - 09:43am PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth.


Rick, thanks for jotting down your reasoning. I appreciate the time you've taken to answer.

From what you write, I gather that it's such a large conspiracy that even the scientists don't realize that their data is being skewed by a hidden power. Before it hits their screens, the data is that is being collected on the climate is being jiggered by the few who have the keys to the machines that report the data, and they make it LOOK like things are going warm. When in actuality, it's just a bunch of faked data. How else could there be peer-reviewed papers, where scientists come to the same conclusions using the available data upon which the papers are based.

That's a hard pill to swallow. Especially because we are seeing empirically what the models predict. Now that is some fancy jiggering!

But carry on, I want to see the rest of it!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2013 - 09:51am PT
The Chief, record highs followed by record lows.

Does that to you indicate a stable climate, the status quo?



Wait! Before you answer, make sure your Bozo nose is shining red and hasn't fallen out of place from the center of your face.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:43am PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth.

From this I gather that you've never seen The Limits to Growth. But what have you been told that it contains?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Ed, your rebuttal is boiler plate idiocy. Many of your questions will be answered in the continuation.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
then rebut Ed's post, Rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

no clever little irrelevant personal digs, no emotional diatribes....

prove most everyone wrong when they say you don't have the intellect to do so


time to finally man up, rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

or STFU, the choice is yours
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
prove most everyone wrong when they say you don't have the intellect to do so
he can't because he's a dunce
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 6, 2013 - 09:18am PT
The basis for stratigraphy is defining intervals between max flooding surfaces. In the rock record, sea level changes in a very rhythmic way..evidence that the Earth's climate is cyclic. These cycles dominate the rock record.

The mechanism behind this is now generally accepted to be Milankovitch Cycles. These are cycles in the Earth's orbit and precession of the Earth's axis.

Although we are no doubt warming right now, we are oddly enough in a part of the cycles where we should be cooling down.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 6, 2013 - 09:27am PT
then rebut Ed's post, Rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

no clever little irrelevant personal digs, no emotional diatribes....

prove most everyone wrong when they say you don't have the intellect to do so


time to finally man up, rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

or STFU, the choice is yours
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Dec 6, 2013 - 09:41am PT
For the reality-based community, a nice look at real science in action. This 5-minute video posted by glaciologist Mauri Pelto offers a glimpse of the 30 years of field work that have gone into monitoring the mass balance of Cascade glaciers.
We have developed a 30 years time series of glacier mass balance on glaciers across the North Cascades of Washington. To ensure that the program could be sustained, we did not pursue any federal funding for the project. The data we, collect is submitted to the World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS) each year, the regional time series built in the North Cascade is just part of the contribution to the global glacier mass balance time series at WGMS. The cumulative North Cascades glacier mass balance record is in fact quite similar to the cumulative global mass balance time series. For the globe there have been 22 consecutive years of negative mass balance, that is the reality of the impact of global warming on mountain glaciers around the globe. The impact on the glaciers of Mount Baker was recently published Pelto and Brown (2012)


Pelto is presenting a longer version of his video next week at the AGU (American Geophysical Union) meetings in San Francisco.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 6, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Sketch I would really like to see you directly answer Bruce Kay's question above. No side-stepping. Can you do it?

Of are you playing chief's game too?

Will you answer?

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 6, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
When anyone repeatedly displays intellectual cowardice it is our duty to piss on their heads from a very great height.

oh damn, now that IS funny regardless

just like next door neighbor five year old kid who disagreed with me about something and told
me to "build a bridge and get over it, diaper face"
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 6, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Given your verbosity in making the request, I'm guessing any response on my part would result in more tiresome tedious posts from you. Even if I was interested addressing this query (which I'm not), your penchant for blather would be a deterrent.

hmmm, Irony?


Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.
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