Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:39am PT
So you are all worried about climate change and what it is doing to "Endagered Species". All the while shet like this occurs and you all totally ignore it.

Rare bird last seen in Britain 22 years ago reappears only to be killed by wind turbine in front of a horrified crowd of birdwatchers
http://www.nationalreview.com/planet-gore/352381/rare-bird-uk-killed-wind-turbine-greg-pollowitz

Had this been an "Endangered" MYLF or Sierra Toad that was stepped on then killed by a pack animal and witnessed by a herd of Sierra Clubbers, the shet would have hit the fan for that Packer.



MONO
Antarctica is overall losing land ice mass, despite gaining mass in the interior.


SO finally someone gets the point!

The INTERIOR ICE SHEET is gaining mass while the ICE SHELVES are losing. Thank you.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:45am PT
And both predicted by climate change. What's your point?

Overall impact after you subtract the loss from the gains: Antarctic is losing land ice mass.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:46am PT
This isn't the first nor the last time this has occurred on the Antarctic Continent. Nothing new.

But of course you all will DISTORT the reality of the truth to your advantage for the propaganda machine.

Climate Change is NOTHING NEW.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:46am PT
The rational people in this ridiculous exchange should step away from the keyboard and let the clueless FOX-blindered people rant in peace. There is absolutely nothing you can say that will move their opinion one Angstrom towards understanding the science and complexity of the real world.

That is all. Carry on.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Glad you finally recognize it is happening now, Chief. You are making good progress.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:53am PT
I NEVER stated it WASN'T happening MONO.

I have endlessly stated that it is just an NATURAL occurrence that we as humans need to adapt to. NOT spend billions of dollars and decades of research trying to ascertain "WHY" and "WHO" is at fault.

The fallacy of the Climate Change Research Industry Complex is overwhelming. Prime example are the amount of PhD'd Climate Scientist 30 years ago, compared to the current count.

Hell, CHILOE ISN'T even a Climate Scientist. He is a Sociologist for god's sake. A "POLICY" researcher/contributor.
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~lch/
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 11:55am PT
Interior antarctic ice mass gain was predicted by climate change scientists. Glad you confirmed that is indeed happening.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
I never stated anything different MONO. Fact is, as precip increases, so will the overall increase throughout the Continent. And if the Sea Ice continues to expand and increase, this too will assist the growth overall cycle. A cycle that has occurred many times in the past 15 or so million years.

Thus this is all nothing new. And all part of why the CC's predicted it. Cus it is a natural cycle of events.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Ed previously pointed out that future research may show that we are not gaining interior ice mass. Time will tell. The generally accepted science now is that the interior is gaining.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
MONO
"MAY".

There's that word again. Sorry. The MODELLING process is not working nor is it in any way shape or form accurate to say the least.

ED
the GIA models are necessary to interpret both the GRACE data (mass) and the ICESat data (altimetry)
the research has been directed to understanding the Antarctic climate.


As present or in it's general geological history?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Yep, I know you have a hard time with words that don't convey 100% certainty either way.

Glad we all agree, Antarctic is losing land ice mass.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
The rational people in this ridiculous exchange should step away from the keyboard and let the clueless FOX-blindered people rant in peace. There is absolutely nothing you can say that will move their opinion one Angstrom towards understanding the science and complexity of the real world.

Skep, we know that you're right and the ideologues won't learn science. They prove that with every single post. Trouble is, if you let them rant away unchallenged then for quieter folks who aren't so sure what to think, that noise is all they will hear.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
The goal in this discussion ... is to learn about the climate science through answering their questions

Ok. I can live with that. You're all doing a great job, by the way.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
NO MONO:


Mass Balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet 1992-2008 from ERS and ICESat: Gains exceed losses Presented by Jay Zwally, NASA Goddard, USA ISMASS 2012 is an activity of the renewed SCAR/IASC ISMASS expert group, which focuses on the mass balance of ice-sheets and their contribution to sea level changes. The workshop is sponsored by ICSU, SCAR, IASC, WCRP, IGS, and IACS with support from CliC and APECS. Video recording and editing provided by Kristin Poinar, Mai Winstrup, and Jenny Baeseman

Mass Gains of the Antarctic Ice Sheet Exceed Losses

Zwally, H. Jay; Li, Jun; Robbins, John; Saba, Jack L.; Yi, Donghui; Brenner, Anita; Bromwich, David

Abstract:

During 2003 to 2008, the mass gain of the Antarctic ice sheet from snow accumulation exceeded the mass loss from ice discharge by 49 Gt/yr (2.5% of input), as derived from ICESat laser measurements of elevation change. The net gain (86 Gt/yr) over the West Antarctic (WA) and East Antarctic ice sheets (WA and EA) is essentially unchanged from revised results for 1992 to 2001 from ERS radar altimetry.

Imbalances in individual drainage systems (DS) are large (-68% to +103% of input), as are temporal changes (-39% to +44%). The recent 90 Gt/yr loss from three DS (Pine Island, Thwaites-Smith, and Marie-Bryd Coast) of WA exceeds the earlier 61 Gt/yr loss, consistent with reports of accelerating ice flow and dynamic thinning. Similarly, the recent 24 Gt/yr loss from three DS in the Antarctic Peninsula (AP) is consistent with glacier accelerations following breakup of the Larsen B and other ice shelves. In contrast, net increases in the five other DS of WA and AP and three of the 16 DS in East Antarctica (EA) exceed the increased losses.

Alternate interpretations of the mass changes driven by accumulation variations are given using results from atmospheric-model re-analysis and a parameterization based on 5% change in accumulation per degree of observed surface temperature change. A slow increase in snowfall with climate warming, consistent with model predictions, may be offsetting increased dynamic losses.
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120013495_2012013235.pdf
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
I see, you quote a 2012 paper with data to 2010 on the last page that says the interior is gaining and overall the continent is losing.

But you only accept the gaining part because another paper that goes to 2008 says Antarctic overall gained since 2003.

I NEVER stated it WASN'T happening MONO.

So you just now had an epiphany?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Negative MONO.

Climate Change IS NOT manmade. It is and always has been, Natural. It has been occurring for a longass time far worse in many instances than the current episode. WITHOUT man's assistance.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
We were talking just about land ice mass gain or not in Antarctica. If you want to change the subject, fire away.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jul 1, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
The goal in this discussion is not to persuade Ron, rick and/or The Chief (or any of the many other vocal skeptics) to change their positions.

Then you should not mention their avatars in your posts, because it makes it look like it is a debate, which it is not ... debates have moderators and rules.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 1, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Then you should not mention their avatars in your posts, because it makes it look like it is a debate, which it is not ... debates have moderators and rules.

No one claimed this was a debate, it's not even much of an argument, with one group venting incomprehension, rage and paranoia mixed together with talking points from political blogs in more or less random order. But the value IMO lies with providing a science-based response to those talking points, which are widely repeated by political activists and media.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jul 1, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Addressing trolls by avatar makes them feel important.
I see no point with arguing with five year olds.

If you feel the need to respond to a claim, I suspect it would be better to use the generic term "some troll said ..."
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