Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 10541 - 10560 of total 25079 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 11:55am PT
Ron, living organisms are carbon neutral (or carbon sinks with respect to the atmosphere). They take up more carbon than they emit during their life, which is how they grow. Once they die that carbon is either liberated by decomposition or stored. Fossil fuels are stored carbon that was built up over 10's of millions of years of high biological productivity. We are releasing that carbon directly into the atmosphere over hundreds of years.

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend the OBVIOUS imbalance? You said yourself increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere by 20% would definitely have consequences... we have increased it by 40%. Pull your head out of your ass.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 11:56am PT
The very fact that eco groups shut down logging has resulted in the LOSS of many scrubbers of CO2. Eviros fighting enviros..
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
^ willfully ignorant idiots lumping based on limited knowledge, even less understanding, and NO critical thinking skills.

"Eco groups" didn't "shut down logging." SOME people concerned about endangered species habitat stopped the rampant logging of SOME old growth stands, which would have been replaced by unhealthy even-aged monoculture tree farms.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:02pm PT


The very fact that eco groups shut down logging has resulted in the LOSS of many scrubbers of CO2. Eviros fighting enviros..

That doesn't make sense Ron. Trees take up CO2 and store it. I'll post a photo of some deforestation that just happened in my neighborhood in Seattle. That was a loss of CO2 scrubbers.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
Yes it does if you think of how much DEAD forest we now have due to NON treatments. Live scrubbers being better than dead... Live scrubbers go on scrubbing while the dead take in a certain amount and they are done until release.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Yes it does if you think of how much DEAD forest we now have due to NON treatments.

Ok, how much? Approximation will do. Please show your calculations in terms of lost carbon absorption.

Lol.

DMT
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
Some FACTS and MYTHS about "clear cutting." From the east, but worth reading if you like forests...

Click it


From Alaska...

Note, the number 1 reason for even age management (clear cutting) is ECONOMIC, not ecological.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
GUD article Wes. And rather accurate. Its all in how they are utilized. And while even aged systems do speak to ecomomics, they also enhance eco concerns. Bio mass being the critical factor no?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Its all in how they are utilized.

And how they have adapted NATURALLY. Some forests clearly respond better to clear cutting than others. Again, the number 1 reason for clear cutting is economic, NOT ecologic.

Face it, we USE forest materials and we MUST manage them appropriately. The timber industry is only ONE aspect... driven by profit, NOT by forest health concerns.

The only reason we need be concerned about biomass accumulation in forests is our own fire suppression activities.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Granted, however bio mass is bio mass. When you can have the best of both worlds its a no brainer. And caring and profit are NOT mutually exclusive.


Yes some areas wont supports such actions while others flourish from those cuts.

We were told in the late 70s that a clear cut on hawkins peak (take burnside lk rd to the Y and go left around the N face of hawkins- downhill of road) would never recover due to our moistures here.

Well they were wrong. That clear cut unit has regeneration like mad. It also attracts several species of wildlife. This was an experimental cut for the times. A NICE mix of species was the result. Limbs lopped and scattered to aid the micro climates. and That even in some very poor volcanic soils.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Here's some deforestation going on in Seattle on GREENWOOD AVE. Looks like between 1 to 2 acres of nice trees. Ron, these weren't taken out by bugs. All for new housing in the era of Climate Change. This seems so stupid. It is actually just north of the northern Seattle City limit at 145th. This is happening all over the area. Just making the point that it's not forests somewhere else that are going down, like in the Amazon or Indonesia. Enjoy the heat wave this week everyone!
Credit: McHale's Navy
Credit: McHale's Navy
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Mchale, yes the urban interface is all over the west. Ill bet at one time your residence looked much the same. But that is HARLDY deforestation.

Houses go up in the PNW, trees must go down to make that room.

Its not even a drop in the bucket when compared to the millions of acres of dead timber that died due to insects and disease and NON treatments of those compartments.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Simply because of the shear volume, the rubber stamping review process,and the huge cash flows ino it,the junk papers are overwhelmingly on the pro CAGW side. Many people have brought forward paper after paper refuting many of the premises this phony science is based on. Only people that are massively ideologically biased could fail to miss it. That Co2 is capable of reflecting radiation equally from earth or space points to another balancing mechanism you guys refuse to acknowledge.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
When you can have the best of both worlds its a no brainer.

First off, you CAN'T have the best of both worlds. The timber industry's best world is vast monoculture tree farms because they are cheaper, easier, and maximize profits. The (uneducated) "eco group's" best world is a robust ecosystem with high biodiversity and no signs of human impacts... probably involves unicorns.

The timber industry was OUT OF CONTROL, much like the dam builders of the mid-1900's.

And caring and profit are NOT mutually exclusive.

They are if the only ones calling the shots are interested in profit.

That even in some very poor volcanic soils.

FWIW, volcanic soils generally have higher water retention and higher inorganic nutrient concentrations (Ca, K, Na, etc) than granitic soils.





That Co2 is capable of reflecting radiation equally from earth or space points to another balancing mechanism you guys refuse to acknowledge.

You are so fuking far beyond clueless.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
While that may be chemically true Wes, trees attempting to "root" in ROCk due indeed have a harder time than those sprouting in deeper soils.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
You said "volcanic soils" not ROCK... so I assumed you meant soil.

Also, FWIW, volcanic ROCK weathers faster than granitic ROCK.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
Its not even a drop in the bucket when compared to the millions of acres of dead timber that died due to insects and disease and NON treatments of those compartments.

Sounds to me Ron like you are denying that a warming climate is making it much easier for the bugs. It's not just the Forest Circus. Why do we sell lumbar so cheap that we can't even manage the forests?
raymond phule

climber
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:57pm PT

Simply because of the shear volume, the rubber stamping review process,and the huge cash flows ino it,the junk papers are overwhelmingly on the pro CAGW side.
How do you know this? Or maybe more relevant why do you believe that is the case?


Many people have brought forward paper after paper refuting many of the premises this phony science is based on. Only people that are massively ideologically biased could fail to miss it.

Can you give examples? How could someone that is not in the system at all know that this is the case?

To me it seems that many skeptical papers get published but maybe not in the best journals. McIntyre has for example a couple of publications. Swensmark many publications. Lindzen and Spencer also. Even humlum have published papers.

The real question is why do you believe your sources when you have problem to understand the science and not any first hand knowledge about the per-review process?


That Co2 is capable of reflecting radiation equally from earth or space points to another balancing mechanism you guys refuse to acknowledge.

I don't know what you mean but it sounds like a strawman. Can you explain what we don't acknowledge?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 28, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
a whopping .11 of one degree of warming DOES NOT equate to growing populations of beetles. Stressed stands due to over competition are THE ONLY reason for our forests current troubles. Forests were NEVER by nature, meant to stagnate. When they do one of three things WILL BE the result. Those are: Wildfires, insects/disease or logging. Only ONE is a viable solution now.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jun 28, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
It's pretty clear Ron that you are not looking at all sides of the problem. At best your 1.1 figure is just an average as well. The skeptic side loves to average everything away.
Messages 10541 - 10560 of total 25079 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews