The future of the forum


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Glen Gardner
Aug 27, 2005 - 09:01pm PT
Who posted a photo of a dead person (dead body)? Surely you are not referring to the grieving man who posted a photo of his close friend (taken many years ago) after said friend died. There was nothing offensive about that photo. In fact, it was very touching and it sounds like his friend was very special. Did someone post something offensive somewhere involving a person who died? I must have missed that.

Aug 27, 2005 - 09:50pm PT
Damn I was out carrying sprained ankles down the trail. What happened here?

Did Matt go overboard and do something “Bad”?

Did I miss something that caused this C Mac reaction, not that there is anything really to miss here :-)
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2005 - 10:20pm PT
political and non climbing threads are fine.

the issue is too many political threads and climbing threads that are hijacked and steered away by political issues.

right now, everything seems cool. a few weeks ago, there was a time when it seemed like 30% or more of the threads were political. and i was getting a lot of emails from people saying "Hey, i cam to this site for climbing info... why do i have to wade through all this other crap"

the other stuff: like posting photos of dead people, sexual stuff, and all the back and forth personal attacks - that stuff has to go. if you have a personal problem with someone, work it out over email. don't make the rest of us watch.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Aug 27, 2005 - 10:23pm PT
Sounds like a reasonable and balanced approach to me, that still lets us get a bit of our wild side out if we're not dissing folks in the process



Aug 27, 2005 - 10:41pm PT

I think your idea of creating 2 forums is great. Of late there have seemed to be MANY postings of a non climbing nature. Sure we all get a kick out of them. Many of us have laughed at Satan and Donney as well as the PTP and Jody threads. However why not move the non climbing bs to a non climbing section. Well that's my 2 specks of dirt.

Mountain climber
bay area
Aug 27, 2005 - 10:50pm PT
Gentlemen and Gentlewomen of Supertopo:

Please do not banish my arch nemesis of the internet. I'm sure someone has realized that the majority of political threads in the past six months have been started by none other than Matt, he is quite fervant in his hatred of President Bush and seems he would be against any war until it threatened San Francisco. I've found ST and it's forum to be an excellent mixture of cllimbing information and social commentary (although extreme at times). Perhaps if the offending parties were restricted for a short period of time or the community imposed a persona non-grata in real life (in the ditch) this would change behaviors.


Jody's evil twin...AKA: Dr. Strangelove.

edit: P.S. In general you guys/girls just kill me, I'm so glad I added the third monitor to my desk for ST. I've just got to trim more weight so I can torture all of you in person in C4 :).

Trad climber
Phoenix, AZ
Aug 27, 2005 - 11:07pm PT
Although I rarely post here, I am a frequenty (daily) visitor. I just wanted to drop my two cents in on this issue because I do feel strongly about it.

I can do without the sex and the dead bodies (missed that actually), but I am a firm believer in an open forum. As Ed pointed out, the First Amendment does not apply here, but there are guiding principles we can learn from. So let me set out my philosophy:

I am an adult. I have absolute power over what all of you say and post. That power comes in the form of what I click on. I can easily ignore the political threads (they are fairly obvious). I occasionally find them amusing, however. Of course, I've never posted in a political thread. There's no need. The members here are all intelligent and capable of defending their respective positions. More importantly, we are a diverse community. Even if I remain silent, my views are represented.

All of this is leading up to the idea that we are, as Karl put it, a community, albeit a dysfunctional one. The openness of the forum is what gives it it's character. To curtail that openness runs counter to why I love this place so much. So . . . reasonable limits on decency are fine (I occasionally go to forums on other hobbies that I would be ashamed for friends to see some o fthe crap that's posted, so I'm all for decency). But let's not get overzealous in cleaning up the place. If we do, we lose the very character that makes this such a great place.


Aug 27, 2005 - 11:29pm PT
”Hey, I came to this site for climbing info... why do I have to wade through all this other crap"

And .....

”All of this is leading up to the idea that we are, as Karl put it, a community, albeit a dysfunctional one”

Well for the first quote, since I’ve lived in Camp 4 for so long and been around so much different bullshit for so long I’m kind of immune to bullsh#t. Seems kind of like cry babies?

The second quote. Ha ha ha dysfunctional, so true, but, when the sh-it hits the fan I’ve always noticed everyone comes together. Those that don’t are the real ones you got to worry about in my book.

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Aug 27, 2005 - 11:52pm PT
Go for it. You have a climbing web-site, related to a great service - and your books.

That's what I came here for. I climb Gunks 20-35 days per year (if my wife climbed, it would be 40-60). Road trip 1-3 times per year. Climbed Yosemite once for two weeks (2004, will be there again). Yosemite rocks, your service rocks. I am over 50 (gumby - started climbing 2001). I buy your stuff. If my wife were a climber and son were in college (2 years away), I would already be retired and road-tripping.

If you make it only climbing - great stuff. That's all I care about. If you want to make it climbing - political, that's cool too. Especially, if I can bookmark "just climbing". I have posted non-climbing when I am bored. But would not even see it if you separated the two.

Climbing posts rock. Political - w7diw (keyboard shift).

Climbers on the site are good even when you disagree with them. Eliminate the political threads - (or separate them - your choice of course). I'll still be here and so will the serious climbers - disagreeing, just as they have since Harding. :)_

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:23am PT
Its about time, however, climbers are not politicians, and I do not know any climber holding a job in Pentagon or UN, they never talk about sex or activities in this manner, They never drink and drive, only some times they smoke and climb safely, they try to respect each other and never fight over who did the first accent on some wall, they dress well and wear the top clothing, they are friendly and share their climbing stuff among each other, and Germans forced them to drive VW bus back then.

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:31am PT
I don't know this LEB broad, but she seems like
a pretty smart dame. I bet she's got a nice rack.

what are you talking about- she doesn't even climb...

since i have been mentioned by name in this thread (and since i am one of the few who actually uses his own name around here), i will just say that i have finished off more tiffs here than i have started, and these "rules" don't bother me at all.

as for political threads, it's a myth that i start so many of them (maybe i just start the good ones?), at worst i post the text of an editorial every so often, just to start some discussion, but the garbage threads start elsewhere (go check for yourself).

as for personal attacks, mr. fattrad, IMHO, brought a whole new level of negativity to this site in his 1st months on the scene, and it's something that is difficult to turn down after it has been turned up.

and as for jody, he's been absent for a good while, and i felt like i made my point in this thread:

i feel like the guy clearly demonstrated a certain heart-felt distain for sertain segments of the world's population which made him an altogether unique individual here, and i just wanted to welcome the "whole" jody back, not just his pretty pictures, and since i am posting this, i guess i haven't been banned for it (yet).

finally, of all the things i have ever done in my life, some to be proud of and some to look back and laugh at or learn from, let me just say that the kids who cried and whined in kindergarden were usually weak and lame, and in my estimation that's every bit as true in adult life- you know who you are, what a bunch of sissies... (is that a personal attack? sorry, maybe you'd better send big brother an email!)

[baab- you're it]


Aug 28, 2005 - 12:36am PT
But Matt

A good soul always protects the weak ........

Aug 28, 2005 - 12:42am PT
Policing the forum strikes me as ultra-lame. Has a gated-community feel to it -- a vibe considerably more offensive than even the most offensive post I've seen in the ST forum.

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:43am PT
werner- i'm not saying i was the jerk making other kids cry, just saying the same kids always seemed to be doing the whining. as for defending the weak, i have done plenty of that and i agree w/ you entirely. as an example, whenever i round out a day of cragging by running up RA, i always stop and talk to those who are on it all day and make sure they have EXTENSIVE beta on the NDG walk-off, or 2 ropes to rap.

Mountain climber
bay area
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:51am PT

I'm sure you do good deeds, but sometimes good deeds take blood and sacrifice. Democratic Presidential candidate Wesley Clark is calling for UN (read mostly US) troops to go to Sudan, don't you think some blood would be shed to save the tortured black muslims and christians from the arab muslims?

Jody's evil twin.

Aug 28, 2005 - 12:55am PT
That means your a good guy Matt .... eh.

Now here you like to stir up the pot and sometimes we knee jerk our reactions before we really think about what you're trying to accomplish.

But there is the higher ground which gets much greater results and less knee jerk. A much more difficult method to do successfully.

It takes much greater knowledge and intelligence to accomplish.

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:58am PT
judy wrote:
Democratic Presidential candidate Wesley Clark..."
i am sure all of you friends could care less anout anyone in sudan, and i am equally as sure that the neocons who now claim that we are in iraq "for the sake of the iraqi people" simply re-demonstrate their utter hypocracy when it never even enters their minds that the people in darfur are far worse off than even the people of iraq were under SH.

btw- didn't you see Cmac's appeal NOT to hijack threads w/ political discussion?

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:59am PT
werner, maybe it just means i am not always a prick to people i don't know and will never see again, or maybe it just means i have been there..

and who says posting here is about accomplishing anything at all?

Glen Gardner
Aug 28, 2005 - 01:05am PT

"A good soul always protects the weak ........"

I really like that comment. It is so true.

Rarely do I relate to slogans or mission statements of any organization but I came across one such statement two days ago which really struck a chord with me. It was printed on calendars left by one of the recruiters on campus and I thought I might share it. To me, it spoke volumes and I thought you might like it, as well. Printed on the calendar was the following:

- Integrity First
- Service before Self
- Excellence in Everything We Do


Aug 28, 2005 - 01:08am PT
Oh Matt, you are trying to accomplish something here for sure, you can not deny that fact or try to hide it.

A post is a desire ……..
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