The future of the forum

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LqdSlvr

Trad climber
Phoenix, AZ
Aug 27, 2005 - 11:07pm PT
Although I rarely post here, I am a frequenty (daily) visitor. I just wanted to drop my two cents in on this issue because I do feel strongly about it.

I can do without the sex and the dead bodies (missed that actually), but I am a firm believer in an open forum. As Ed pointed out, the First Amendment does not apply here, but there are guiding principles we can learn from. So let me set out my philosophy:

I am an adult. I have absolute power over what all of you say and post. That power comes in the form of what I click on. I can easily ignore the political threads (they are fairly obvious). I occasionally find them amusing, however. Of course, I've never posted in a political thread. There's no need. The members here are all intelligent and capable of defending their respective positions. More importantly, we are a diverse community. Even if I remain silent, my views are represented.

All of this is leading up to the idea that we are, as Karl put it, a community, albeit a dysfunctional one. The openness of the forum is what gives it it's character. To curtail that openness runs counter to why I love this place so much. So . . . reasonable limits on decency are fine (I occasionally go to forums on other hobbies that I would be ashamed for friends to see some o fthe crap that's posted, so I'm all for decency). But let's not get overzealous in cleaning up the place. If we do, we lose the very character that makes this such a great place.

Jimmie
WBraun

climber
Aug 27, 2005 - 11:29pm PT
”Hey, I came to this site for climbing info... why do I have to wade through all this other crap"

And .....

”All of this is leading up to the idea that we are, as Karl put it, a community, albeit a dysfunctional one”

Well for the first quote, since I’ve lived in Camp 4 for so long and been around so much different bullshit for so long I’m kind of immune to bullsh#t. Seems kind of like cry babies?

The second quote. Ha ha ha dysfunctional, so true, but, when the sh-it hits the fan I’ve always noticed everyone comes together. Those that don’t are the real ones you got to worry about in my book.
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Aug 27, 2005 - 11:52pm PT
Chris,
Go for it. You have a climbing web-site, related to a great service - supertopo.com and your books.

That's what I came here for. I climb Gunks 20-35 days per year (if my wife climbed, it would be 40-60). Road trip 1-3 times per year. Climbed Yosemite once for two weeks (2004, will be there again). Yosemite rocks, your service rocks. I am over 50 (gumby - started climbing 2001). I buy your stuff. If my wife were a climber and son were in college (2 years away), I would already be retired and road-tripping.

If you make it only climbing - great stuff. That's all I care about. If you want to make it climbing - political, that's cool too. Especially, if I can bookmark "just climbing". I have posted non-climbing when I am bored. But would not even see it if you separated the two.

Climbing posts rock. Political - w7diw (keyboard shift).

Climbers on the site are good even when you disagree with them. Eliminate the political threads - (or separate them - your choice of course). I'll still be here and so will the serious climbers - disagreeing, just as they have since Harding. :)_
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:23am PT
Its about time, however, climbers are not politicians, and I do not know any climber holding a job in Pentagon or UN, they never talk about sex or activities in this manner, They never drink and drive, only some times they smoke and climb safely, they try to respect each other and never fight over who did the first accent on some wall, they dress well and wear the top clothing, they are friendly and share their climbing stuff among each other, and Germans forced them to drive VW bus back then.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:31am PT
I don't know this LEB broad, but she seems like
a pretty smart dame. I bet she's got a nice rack.


what are you talking about- she doesn't even climb...




since i have been mentioned by name in this thread (and since i am one of the few who actually uses his own name around here), i will just say that i have finished off more tiffs here than i have started, and these "rules" don't bother me at all.

as for political threads, it's a myth that i start so many of them (maybe i just start the good ones?), at worst i post the text of an editorial every so often, just to start some discussion, but the garbage threads start elsewhere (go check for yourself).

as for personal attacks, mr. fattrad, IMHO, brought a whole new level of negativity to this site in his 1st months on the scene, and it's something that is difficult to turn down after it has been turned up.

and as for jody, he's been absent for a good while, and i felt like i made my point in this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=92474#msg92574

i feel like the guy clearly demonstrated a certain heart-felt distain for sertain segments of the world's population which made him an altogether unique individual here, and i just wanted to welcome the "whole" jody back, not just his pretty pictures, and since i am posting this, i guess i haven't been banned for it (yet).


finally, of all the things i have ever done in my life, some to be proud of and some to look back and laugh at or learn from, let me just say that the kids who cried and whined in kindergarden were usually weak and lame, and in my estimation that's every bit as true in adult life- you know who you are, what a bunch of sissies... (is that a personal attack? sorry, maybe you'd better send big brother an email!)



[baab- you're it]




WBraun

climber
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:36am PT
But Matt

A good soul always protects the weak ........
marky

climber
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:42am PT
Policing the forum strikes me as ultra-lame. Has a gated-community feel to it -- a vibe considerably more offensive than even the most offensive post I've seen in the ST forum.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:43am PT
werner- i'm not saying i was the jerk making other kids cry, just saying the same kids always seemed to be doing the whining. as for defending the weak, i have done plenty of that and i agree w/ you entirely. as an example, whenever i round out a day of cragging by running up RA, i always stop and talk to those who are on it all day and make sure they have EXTENSIVE beta on the NDG walk-off, or 2 ropes to rap.
WBraun

climber
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:55am PT
That means your a good guy Matt .... eh.

Now here you like to stir up the pot and sometimes we knee jerk our reactions before we really think about what you're trying to accomplish.

But there is the higher ground which gets much greater results and less knee jerk. A much more difficult method to do successfully.

It takes much greater knowledge and intelligence to accomplish.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:58am PT
judy wrote:
Democratic Presidential candidate Wesley Clark..."
i am sure all of you friends could care less anout anyone in sudan, and i am equally as sure that the neocons who now claim that we are in iraq "for the sake of the iraqi people" simply re-demonstrate their utter hypocracy when it never even enters their minds that the people in darfur are far worse off than even the people of iraq were under SH.



btw- didn't you see Cmac's appeal NOT to hijack threads w/ political discussion?
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Aug 28, 2005 - 12:59am PT
werner, maybe it just means i am not always a prick to people i don't know and will never see again, or maybe it just means i have been there..

and who says posting here is about accomplishing anything at all?
WBraun

climber
Aug 28, 2005 - 01:08am PT
Oh Matt, you are trying to accomplish something here for sure, you can not deny that fact or try to hide it.

A post is a desire ……..
coldclimb

climber
Wasilla, Alaska
Aug 28, 2005 - 01:34am PT
Chris: Seperation of Climbing and State would be a good thing. I vote for two forums. :) The only really downright sucky thing about these forums is the crap you have to wade through to get to the climbing.
climberweenie

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 28, 2005 - 02:44am PT
Having discussions about things other than climbing on this forum directly lead to me meeting several great climbing partners and having awesome climbing experiences in Yosemite. This would not have happened for me in a carefully moderated forum. Suggest implementing a voting system to give feedback and automatically suspend the lame-4sses, but don't separate into "climbing" and "other stuff" forums. And make it so the search features are more effective (I often come up empty searching for what I remember from threads past).

Yes I want climbing information. But I also want to connect with people who share one of my passions. If you fragment the site, I probably wouldn't come very often for a dry climbing discussion and I wouldn't waste my time with lame-ass political, spiritual, and philosophical discussions. But stick 'em together and I get suckered into wasting my time!

Part of what draws me to this online community is how it reflects a random distribution of people, drawn together by a passion for climbing. As stated in some threads a few months back, it really is like a virtual campfire sitting around camp 4 (except that actually being in Camp4 is much less interesting these days in my weekend warrior experience this year).

During a time when my wife and kids were visiting relatives in another country for several months, it filled part of the void for my social needs (since I don't drink or do drugs or do ho's I need something!). And, it was a channel for my personal growth, to practice sharing my real non-work thoughts and practice dealing with differences of opinion in a benign setting. Maybe a selfish use of a resource not intended for the purpose, but I'm guessing we all have our selfish reasons for being here.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
Aug 28, 2005 - 03:17am PT
Yes Juan, you really do. Immediately. Go fast. I'll pay if you need financial assistance.

"2) if that doesnt work, we will get two forums. one for climbing related stuff and one for non-climbing related stuff. if anyone tries to hijack climbing related threads, we will just ban them. we don't have time to weed out the threads, so we will just be deleting the users."

Two forums is a great idea! Climbing Stuff and Non-Climbing Stuff. How much more do you need?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 28, 2005 - 06:11am PT
At the risk of yet another sound trundling I say split'em up...
smokin_nolens

Social climber
California Valley, California
Aug 28, 2005 - 09:41am PT
Chris does exactly what Chris wants to do. Damn the consequences.
mellpat

Big Wall climber
Sweden
Aug 28, 2005 - 11:56am PT
SuperTopo Climber’s Forum: the best forum on the planet because of the folks writing here. Any major changes (two compartments) means a different crowd. Compartments and creativity don't match.

As to the offensive stuff - folks from the old countries can at least learn some interesting american language and "culture". LOL
ricardo

Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
Aug 28, 2005 - 02:42pm PT
i love the whack-a-mole (tm) feature of this site
maculated

Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
Aug 28, 2005 - 02:57pm PT
Climberweenie exhoes my sentiments here - I'm a regular on RC.com, too, but mainly because I know a lot of the other regulars in person, and because it's rewarding to me on a few levels.

But ST has a flair that has me loyal to it - the quality of the posts, the insights, the self policing, the general respect afforded. A lot less signal-to-noise ratio.

Splitting off the forums is going to take moderation work on your part, Chris. People are going to screw it up. I think your whack-a-mole/banning approach is working just fine. The forum is fun, educational, and attracts a high caliber of individuals. Kudos.
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