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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 18, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Experienced alpine rock folk...
I'd like to spend a lot of time on High Sierra trade routes this summer (something new to me).
What rope set up do y'all prefer?
I use a 60m x 9.7 in the Valley (and most places), but was thinking about getting a 50m x skinnier single line for climbing with bigger approaches. Will I miss the extra 10m?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 18, 2009 - 11:42pm PT
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I like using a skinny 60 like a 9.4 or 9.1. Done a few routes with slobmonster where we used one double rope, an 8.5 I think?
I don't know that I couldn't get away with 10m less, but I think it'd be more noticable on rappels than on leads?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2009 - 11:51pm PT
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(Knocks on wood) I'm not looking at any routes with raps.
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crøtch
climber
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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On the moderate Sierra trades you're not going to find any 60m enduro pitches. I would wager that you'll be doing a lot of simulclimbing and a shorter, skinnier rope works fine for that. 50m single or a 60m twin doubled up would be my recommendation.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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I'm planning to do routes that will be for the most part challenging enough for me to want a real belay...and probably a real tight one from above sometimes too!
I've never been very comfortable simulclimbing. :-(
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crøtch
climber
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:14am PT
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If you are looking at harder routes with enduro pitches then that's a standard rockclimbing scenario which just happens to be in the mountains.
If you anticipate pitching things out, then go skinny and long. Maybe even a 9.1 70m so that you can take advantage of those stretches of easier climbing and make up time.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:15am PT
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well, if you don't mind spending $$ and want to go real lightweight, a couple friends of mine just bought:
60m 8.9mm mammut serenity
2x DMM bugette belay devices
So far they've really liked it. The bugettes really save weight over any belay device I've seen, and I think they got them closeout online somewhere. They also use them with lightweight lockers, smaller than standard belay type lockers. Pretty slick setup. You could probably get the rope as a 50m too if that's what you wanted.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:25am PT
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I think I would use my 9.2 mm 80 m Nano Fusion, which is a great rope...
longer is better, more options all around and light.
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crøtch
climber
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:28am PT
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I'm using "enduro" to mean both long and also sustained in difficulty.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:28am PT
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A pair of 50m twins, 8.5mm. It's good to be redundant on the rope in the backcountry.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:28am PT
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I like the whole twin skinnies gig for alpine.
2 9's, please.Or those 9.somethin's, I think.
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crackfiend
climber
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Jun 19, 2009 - 12:57am PT
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Saving weight on the belay device?????? get real, a buggette is not that much lighter than a atc and in the whole scheme of things a moot point.were not talking gri-gri vs an atc.. use a frikken muenter if youre that worried about an ounce of weight.. sorry for the rant but c'mon.... one option some here have not mentioned which I like is using a single 70m half rope,. One person ties into the middle w/ bolan on a bight and the other to each end. this way you can lead in 35m blocks which is usually sufficient, coil half the rope and tie in short for simul sections and be able to do a decent length rappel if need be. this is not ideal for all situations but works pretty slick quite often.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 19, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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I say twin skinnies too, somewhere in the 8s. 60m. If you are going fast and easy you can leave one coiled. If things get enduro, you can double up. And, obviously, you can bail in a normal, rack preserving fashion.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 01:47am PT
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I use a shorter (120') skinny, single (5 falls) dry rope for the standard long-approach peaks (e.g. Mt. Humphreys), and long, easy routes such as the Matthes Crest traverse. I can think of very few summits that require anything worse than a little roped downclimbing, and the difference in weight between a half-length rope and a full-length one matters greatly on the death marches. If you do any snow and ice climbing, you'll appreciate the dry coating.
Of course, if you're talking about bigger climbs, use a regular-length rope, or better yet, a light 80m like Ed's. The flexibility in pitch length and retreat are well worth it.
John
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 19, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
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As you can see, a lot of different attitudes/approaches. With time, I've gone to skinnier and longer ropes. For a serious route I would take a skinny single (currently using a 70m 9.1mm? Beal Joker). For an easy route I would take a single half rope in the 8.8mm range. The skinny ropes wear quicker, but I don't see it as much of a safety issue.
I've never needed the extra length for long pitches. Rather, I've given up on rapping with two ropes in the backcountry because of knot jams, stuck ropes, and pulling off rock. The longer rope is strictly for one rope rappels. A 35m rap is a good distance, anyway.
If you are sure you aren't going to rap, I think 50m would be plenty long. But plans can change: injury, weather, etc. Coming down 25m at a time will be a bit slower.
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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When Munge and I did [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=855721&tn=0
"]Snake Dike[/url] a while back, we took his 8.9mm or so 60m. It was a nice light cord but felt solid. I never had any qualms about leading on it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 19, 2009 - 06:08pm PT
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60, 9.n, I live by simulcimbing and running pitches together, on Anything, long.
Astroman in 8.
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nutjob
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 06:16pm PT
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I like the double rope strategy so you get more rope (longer raps, bail/recover from disasters, etc) and can split the weight between climbers (and I feel safer with the rope redundancy). For shorter sections, you can just uncoil one rope and fold it in half.
I've been doing 2 x 60m x 8mm ropes latey, used to do 2 x 60m x 9mm. I used the 9mm's last year on Hawkman's, 8mm's this year (perhaps foolishly given the chopper loose chimneys).
On Matthes Crest, I carried 1 x 60m x 8mm and used it for half a pitch around the north tower (and for a little downclimb overhanging handcrack for ~ 15 feet somewhere before the middle). I carried a 60m x 8mm (and so did my partner) on Conness North Ridge, but never uncoiled it on either trip there.
On Sun Ribbon Arete, I think we took one 60m x 8mm and folded it in half and simul'd most of the time. It would be very challenging to finish that climb in a day (even just basecamp-to-basecamp) without simul-climbing on 5.7 with minimal pro.
Edit: I also bought an ATC Guide because the old standard ATC was feeling sketchy on the raps, requiring too much arm strength, wrapping around the leg for extra friction, etc. I still do the leg rap just as a backup.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 19, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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I have one of those skinny ropes, a 70m Mammut 8.9 or 9.2 or whatever. It stretches like a mo-fo so you really can't take a rest on it without falling ten feet. It's not very durable, and when it comes time to rap, 70 m doesn't get you out of needing to bring two ropes.
I won't buy one again. The two skinnies is the way to go if you are not simuling or totally sure you are going to make it. If you need two ropes, you have two. Big routes with raps, I think it's a good system.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Jun 19, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Really depends on whether the route is in your comfort zone (95% of backcountry climbing), or if you actually anticipate whipping (not common since it's obviously not a good idea to get injured in the backcountry in general). For the latter, double ropes or a thicker rope are best, since there tend to be more flakes, loose blocks, and sharp edges than on cragging routes. For hard routes, new routes, or comfort-pushing climbing in general, skimp on weight somewhere other than the rope. That's my 2 cents, but I don't trust skinny ropes to begin with since I'm well over 80kg, especially with a rack of gear, draws, lightweight hammer + bolt kit, water bottles, shoes, jacket, etc.
I remember that PMI once did some testing on 10.5 and 11mm ropes by simply increasing the test weight to 90 or 100kg, and they didn't do too well with an extra 10 or 20 kg. Can't imagine that all these super skinny modern ropes would be in good shape - and of course sharp edges, flakes, etc don't enter into the testing process.
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