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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 20, 2009 - 05:13pm PT
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Yea, if you decide to take a whipper, I would rather have a fatter rope in the back country. But I just haven't read of that many cases where an accident has been caused (or made more severe) because of a skinny rope. In the backcountry, rockfall and weather is what does climbers in.
And regarding the comment above, carrying only one 70m rope does get you out of the need to carry two ropes to rap (no doubt there is some place in the Sierra you absolutely need to rap further than 35m, but it hasn't stranded me yet). I might do a few more raps to get down, but I have far, far fewer epics from stuck ropes.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Jun 20, 2009 - 05:20pm PT
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I like a 50m for back country. Shorter, doesn't get stuck, lighter, etc.
But I buy a 70m first, and by the time I cut the ends off a few times it is a 50m.
I have a 70m mammut 9.6 or something, white/red. Really bouncy, which is fine since I never sit on it backcountry.
Has anyone tried Esprit ropes from Canada? I have seen one used once, years ago, it looked brutally tough, but it was really stiff as well. I like the glow-ends idea.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jun 20, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Backcountry: it covers such a range of climbing, I think we're talking past each other a bit here. I know I'm getting confused, and I've spent half my life up there.
The Hulk? North Pal? East Buttress of Whitney? All backcountry, but I'd take a different rope for each.
The Hulk is easy, just your standard Valley-Tuolumne rope. Same for backcountry projects that could become hard, except that with all the rough edges up there I'll expect it to wear out faster.
On North Pal lugging the thing trumps fall factor. I'll take a 7.8 x 60 ice floss. Plenty strong enough for leading steep snow -- even a long fall would be sliding. OK for 3rd to 5.6 above there. Double if gripped. Rappping back down the U-Notch is set up with anchors for a doubled 60. In a pinch deploy some of your 30' of 9/16" webbing, 2 rap rings and 2 titanium pins that live in the bottom of the alpine sack, right?
The East Buttress of Whitney (OK, Peter, the "Sunshine-Pewee") is kind of backcountry classic. The 5.7 is beyond solo or simul, but you won't likely fall either. There are lots of ledges, and the altitude is a big factor. Frankly, you guys recommending taking a 70 are dreaming. I go the opposite, a short rope. Less to carry, plenty of places to stop and belay, quick and easy anchoring.
Running pitches together on that kind of terrain seems improbable compared to sheer rope drag and, frankly, getting out of breath. I'm happy to stop short, throw a cordelette over a big block (20 seconds) and catch my breath while the partner moves up. My favorite rope at the moment is a 9.2 that had maybe 15' chopped off the end in some mishap. It's never too short in the backcountry.
Incidentally, a cool trick to go with it is a good old-fashioned sitting hip belay. Straddling just the right block you don't even need an anchor. (Did I just say that out loud?) Taking in rope is way faster than a belay device when the partner gets to easier terrain. Look for the right spots for it and you can do even shorter pitches and go faster.
Shorter yet, my most prized ropes are 60-80' chunks of Ice Floss, for the mostly 4th class (read: up to 5.5) climbs. You definitely want a belay, at least potentially, but there are ledges everywhere. With a solid hip belay and a bowline-on-a-coil, you can go mountaineering with nothing but that shorty rope. No harness, no hardware, and even body rap in a pinch.
OK, I hear 'em squirming in their seats now. Yes, the old fart will now shut up and let the kids take over the Alpine Zone.
Have fun!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 20, 2009 - 10:08pm PT
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I gotta side with the old guy on this one.
(... and we all look at each other and say: which one.... "you talkin' tah ME? ... Ha ...)
DR's on it, I mean, in it.
Backcountry, as a term, cuts a wide swath.
60m X 8.2mm worked great on this five-pitch 5.6 on solid granite in Colorado:
(uh ... besides The Diamond, yes there is solid granite in Colorado, Hiamovi Tower here)
The 8.2 mm skinny single rope, on Colorado's Wetterhorn,
Supra nifty cord for the one long easy fifth class pitch:
25m X 11mm is the tidy ticket for third 'n fourth class with occasional fast-moving hip belays,
A fat short rope is easy to hold on to and small to stash:
(here on Ice Mountain, one of the Three Apostles)
Double 50m X 8.6mm = the perfect lightweight companions for 5.9+ in RMNP:
(Notchtop Southridge ... rock is sharp, weather comes early in the Rockies; nice to be able to get down)
In that high fallutin' Sierra, like on the Hulk, I think we used a single fatty 55m 10point something.
Now, on The Hulk, I would probably use a 70m X 9.4mm.
Here is a single 50m X 8.6mm deployed on the one technical pitch on that peak just before Mount Lyle:
And again the single 50m X 8.6mm on Matterhorn Peak:
On Temple Crag's Dark Star first buttress, we used the double 50m X 8.6mm
Sometimes in the high and lonesome, Ummmm, NO rope is just dandy:
I currently own a fresh pair of 60m X 8.6mm ropes.
But gosh, I hardly ever use them...................
I'd like to have something like a double set of 70m X 8.2mm
(Malcolm says PMI now rates their 8.2 mm ropes both for double AND half rope use)
...And maybe a 100m 8.9mm (just don't ask me to coil it)
okay kidding on that last one........
(except that Earl Wiggins fellah DID lead Big Pitches in the Black Canyon on a 300 Foot 9mm Single Rope)
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adam d
climber
CA
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Jun 20, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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and Tarbuster provides definitive proof that...
It depends.
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