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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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BD summit Pack (Bandit with Avalung)
We were planning on ripping open the big bowl below Cox Col and Avy danger had been bubbling between moderate to considerable on such terrain this weekend.
BD yellow bag was my skins.
Ok.....good intel....The summit pack wouldn't be needed if my original pack is mid sized I guess. One tool is all I really need now that I think of it. one pad...ouch.
yeah...plastic shovel is a good idea but scary if somebody gits buried.
Scotch is in the SIGG. No beer, I'm a purist in the High Country.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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Consider trading the beer out for whisky. I find this a tough choice sometimes, and usually just bring both.
You did drill holes in your toothbrush handle, right?
Why don't you just switch to big walls, then you can bring everything you want?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:12pm PT
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"I actually bring two therma-rests too"
Replace with one foam mattress.
Get a scale and weight each item--you will learn pretty quickly why your pack is so heavy and where the most weight can be cut for the least cost.
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GRJ
climber
Juneau AK
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:14pm PT
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Either you go fast and light or you go heavy comfortable. Anything in between is some flavor of stupid.
Fast and light on these kinds of outings is waking up super early (better to hike in in the dark than out) being in good shape, and using your conditioning, ability and experience as you safety net.
Heavy and comfortable is burdensome in someways but it can help make a successful trip. No one likes a crappy bivy at the base of a huge face or route. Better to have a comfortable basecamp, be well fed, hydrated and rested for your climb. You are also exposed to the elements longer so many of the chic light and fast tools and techniques will make your trip miserable if things don't work out.
If the system doesn't work for your objective that should tell you something. It may not be a three day outing for YOU. That isn't to say you shouldn't be there simply that you need another day, or you need to lighten your load bite the bullet and go butt naked, get home late take a shower drink an exhaustion beer at 4am and sleep the next day.
Good luck, I hope I was helpful
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:15pm PT
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I found what helped me learn to pack light was last-minute trips after work Friday. Just grab the pack and run out the door. You always forget an item or two, learn that weekend to climb without it, and buy a super light pack.
Seriously, in the Sierra I only ever used a megamid above 11,000', usually only a bivy sac if I didn't bring a sleeping bag.
Summers, bring a ridgerest, cut it in half and share it with your buddy. Put your packs under your feet. You should be tired enough if you are climbing hard enough not to notice. Sleeping bag with your clothes on - no tent. Everything else you wear, forget a stove in the summer. Don't carry a full water bottle. Use it as a cup at streams and to fill up before the summit push. You can down a quart at the glacier, then another for the summit/decent.
Winters, get water from under the ice - if you can't bring a stove, but forget being reliant on drugs/coffee if you want to go fast & get things done. It takes time to cook up in the morning, ...
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:15pm PT
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Micronut,
Each of the objectives you've identified could be done--and are regularly done--in a day, car to car, by fit teams. This doesn't have to be dangerous and you don't have to be a lungs-on-legs hero to pull those off. Just be sure you know the approach/descent, get comfortable cruising on easier ground, and cut all down on the chit-chat. Get in, get up, get off...repeat.
VLG
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NotIt
Trad climber
LA westside - 3 more months
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
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2nd the advice for buying a smaller pack.
Cilogear 45L has been a great boon in making me think twice before packing anything. I actually used mine (only had it a few weeks now) on my trip to BCS just a few weeks ago. The fact that it goes from 12L to 60L, and are able to strip it bare (hipbelt, frame, frame/back padding, lid) means that you have one pack to do both jobs (basecamp push and summit bid).
I wore big heavy skis and skins and DID luxe out with the booties as well.
stuff you had that I didn't:
-Am I seeing a summit pack in there? (BD, black, right side)
-Get a pocket rocket or one of the myriad generic versions thereof and a titanium jug style container. The JetBoil stuff is nice, shiny, and techy, but it's also big and heavy. Wait, looks like you have one and are using it as a cup(?)
-second can of gas
-second axe
-If you drink enough scotch to fill that SIGG then we've identified problem #1. If not, get a small booze container.
-Beacon (if you get a slide along that approach this time of year...)
-Probe
-Saw
-Rock Shoes
This stuff alone is 12-15L of space, fully 20+ if that is in fact an approach pack on the right side.
Oh, and check out a closed cell foam z-rest instead of the traditional air style thermarest as others have mentioned. Lighter and better R-value for winter.
Taking that one step further, the cilogear packs use ensolite as the back padding, so you could go with a bivy pad only, though this, in my opinion, is truly for masochists.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 06:27pm PT
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Oh man....these trips are going to be miserable without all my toys.
We might actually summit something and get ridiculed less on the approach by competent teams.
I gotta buy a smaller pack. Cool.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
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Bail the scotch. there is a lighter alternative.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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I hope this doesn't mean a drop in quality of your TRs. They are awesome. If carrying too much stuff is the secret to good TRs, I say take and extra tent next time. :)
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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atchafalaya smokes pot!
atchafalaya smokes pot!
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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I meant ibuprofen...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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Sixty-five pounds. Whew! No wonder you were hurting.
Anyway, here are a couple more thoughts in addition to the good suggestions above. First, sounds like you were carrying gear for two separate objectives - moderate alpine climb + shredding that big bowl below Cox. So, you're now carrying both an alpine rack plus all that avy gear. Maybe do the ski trip one weekend and the climbing trip on another? Cuz the way it turned out you lugged up gear for both and were two tired to do either.
Second thing, what kind of rack were you carrying? Climbing gear really bumps up the weight, and it's easy to convince yourself that you really need two of these, three of those, and...
D
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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I'll post up a full Bear Creek Spire Attempt report soon....we actually, packed up, bailed and skied in Mammoth all day cause we got lost and scared and tired. Typical Micronut Disaster Style Expedition.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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"reduce what you take to the absolute minimum to accomplish your immediate goal
then include that stuff which will reduce your risks of dying on the route to a level acceptable to your commitment"
Ed said it as cleanly as possible.
it costs money to go light, least with climbing gear. Mammut Moses biners are the sweet biner.
meh, you heard it above. Mammut has a 8.9mm single rope that weighs only 52 grams per meter. Significant drop from any 10 mil diameter rope if you like single lines.
black trash bag in sunny conditions to melt snow in?
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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are you looking for info on lightening your winter kit, or your summer kit. unclear to me.
translating your photo of your winter kit into a light summer kit is simply too much calculus for my small mind. and i suspect this has lead to much goofery by my fellow small minds. best to pick just one. winter or summer sierra. pick one, and post your best guess accordingly.
but you did end asking about a summer kit, no? so i'll add my rupee on that front.
~~~
as for the summer kit, me, i'd:
 forget the tent; go with just a light bivi sack.
go for a fleaweight sleeping bag, there are plenty less than 2lbs. (sleep in all the clothes you have if needed).
do bring the knit ski cap, even in august (see above).
loose all the therma-rests. one thin 1/2 length ensolite pad will do. cut it to fit your torso, and fold it to fit in your new lighter pack. just stick your legs in your pack. legs don't care (though your neck and back kinda do).
forget the stove, fuel, & pans. for a weekend you'll do fine with well considered trail mix, fruit newtons, a couple bagels, and some of that tuna now available in foil bags. it takes many weeks to starve to death. i know better tricks, but 'word count'
just do weird chemistry on your water rather than boil. simple bleach works fine -- just be very sure you know the precise organic chemistry involved lest you poison yourself. in summer you'll find liquid water (or close enough, paint your water bottles flat black). if it gets esp cold (night/high) just keep ample water close to your warm mammal body).
as for coffee, just bring some instant in a small ziplock and drink it cold. hardly starbucks, but you'll avoid withdrawal seizures and soon forget about it and move on.
trekking poles? granted, with a 65lb pack i'd want 'em. but with a coherent summer pack weight you won't miss them a bit -- unless you have surgically altered knees.
cache gear/food on the way in (flag it for an easy find -- people who actually walk more than a few miles won't touch it. keep it high above the other critters, of course).
none of the routes you mentioned require much gear. many pro options, and you'll smack on a ledge long before you actually get any big air. so a single half rope, 6 or 8 mid size pro (mixed 50/50 slcd and light passive) -- that and a fair wad of light webbing to cut and use as needed (options everywhere). u-notch can be done easily with rock pro.
and oh yeah, limit yourself to no more than 6 pairs of gloves...
~~~
this is fun. good thread.
do consider posting a photo of your best idea of light summer kit for the routes you mention -- if it is summer kit you are interested in. that'd make it easier and more fun. if winter kit is your focus, say so.
^,,^
[EDIT: had to post this 3x as something about using a < sign amidst certain characters ends the post. odd.]
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MUR
climber
A little to the left of right
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Apr 20, 2009 - 06:57pm PT
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Wow, I'll hire you next time out...always wanted a Sherpa.
Those 2 pads of yours weight in at close to 4 pounds, vs 14oz for a single closed cell.
2 axes? One of which is appears to be a walking axe? Heavy Metal dude.
Get a BD alpine Bod, or similar harness. 8mm rope, (who needs screamers with this?), and take a long look at your rack. We don't even know what that looks like, but it better be sparse.
Down booties are fair game AFAIK, if I said something, I might have to leave my down codpiece at home next time.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Apr 20, 2009 - 07:07pm PT
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Forget all that heavy sleeping gear. It doesn't get that cold in the Sierra in April.
Warm clothes, some scotch and some Benadryl. If you're tired enough, that will get you through a night without pad, tent or bag. And the Benadryl will have the added benefit of reducing itching caused by any early season approach mosquitos.
Seriously, though, spend a good amount of time figuring out how you sleep best. If you want to really push and perform well while on a climb, getting a good night's sleep the nught before can really help. If that means a Thermarest and an Ensolite, then it's probably worth it. Even might be worth down booties...
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 07:32pm PT
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Mike and Pip, that's awesome intel.
You guys really dont even cook dinners on a three day trip? Just bars and Tuner Fish and stuff.....man......No wonder we only summit half the time. On this Trip I took Chicken Curry and fresh nan from a good place here in town. We eat like champs but I feel like this.
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