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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 20, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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I have a serious problem. I can't seem to do a backcountry route without a huge freakin pack. It's honestly killing me. I hike slowly, I'm whuped by basecamp, and have actually not made it to basecamp (recently!) in part due to the severity of my load. Dudes pass us on the trail with smaller packs, heading to the same route, for the same amount of time in the mountains. What are these guys smokin'? How are they surviving out here with mid sized packs? People often come along side us and say..."Whoah....big packs dudes....right on." That's not a compliment. I don't think we bring along a bunch of crapola, but apparently I'm doing something wrong.
I felt buried on the approach to Bear Creek Spire this weekend (didn't summit actually) and promised myself to post some shots of my setup for all you superlight alpine trad freaks to critique.
So here's the deal. Look at these shots and tell me what I need to leave at home for say, three days in the High Sierra for a route like Conness West Ridge, U-Notch, Bear Creek Spire North Arete, etc. Day one hike in, day two route, day three hike out. The only thing not shown in this pic is two Mountainhouse dinners and the rack, which we split three ways. The three season tent was also split three ways.
Self portrait added for scale
The stash
This was a winter trip, but honestly I pack the same for summer trips in the High country other than having skins, beacons, shovel, probe,down camp booties and the extra big gloves. Oh yeah, I usually have Peets coffee which is heavier and less trendy than Starby's but worth the added weight.
Thanks-
Scott
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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I've identified the problem:
"Day one hike in, day two route, day three hike out."
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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Leave the tent behind or just bring a tent fly, just bring one ice axe, really consider what you wear and how many times do you really change on a trip, ditch the booties, split the fuel and stove, bivy sack and a tent is redundant.
It's tough, for me it's either way minimal and light or I pack for max comfort. As I get older I am actually packing less and less for trips.
Just a few thoughts.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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Do you need the bivy sack? Try a megamid, they're pretty
good -- or maybe get one of the new BD single wall tents that
are pretty light. Make a list of what you take on the trip.
Check off what you use on the trip (aside from the first aid kit). If you didn't use it, leave it home next time.
One pair of clothes (maybe a light pair of dry things). . .
Good luck!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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reduce what you take to the absolute minimum to accomplish your immediate goal
then include that stuff which will reduce your risks of dying on the route to a level acceptable to your commitment
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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ontheedge, these trips are kind of my vacation from the grind, so three days is a treat. We could rationally car to car these routes, but even one night out you gotta have shelter right? Do most guys in the Sierra not bring a tent and just bivy sack it? also, I have no repeats in clothing. base, wind, down, rain are the four layers up top, and just longjohns and pants on bottom.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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First step in reducing your pack size=
Buy a smaller pack!
if it doesn't fit, don't bring it!
Your tent looks big too. Check out the Big Agnes Seedhouse.
You shouldn't need a bivi bag and a tent, one or the other.
Down booties? come on man...grow a pair.
Do you really need two axes? ditch the big one.
2 cans of gas for 3 nights? prolly not.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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a bivvy bag, with a jacket and thick pile pants with an extra pair of dry socks... what more do you need? put your pack, rope and any other insulating layer under you to keep warm...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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I'd ditch the poles, the short axe and use the long axe for walking... with a lighter pack, you won't need the poles
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:33pm PT
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Bail tent, helmet, rock shoes, beacon, saw, one ax, down booties, goggles, 1 can of gas, huge sleeping pad, extra pack, lip balm, and vagisil.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:36pm PT
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you prolly don't need beacons and snow saws this time of year. your going to climb not ski right?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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"Leave the tent behind or just bring a tent fly, just bring one ice axe, really consider what you wear and how many times do you really change on a trip, ditch the booties, split the fuel and stove, bivy sack and a tent is redundant. "
AND
"First step in reducing your pack size=
Buy a smaller pack!
if it doesn't fit, don't bring it!
Your tent looks big too. Check out the Big Agnes Seedhouse.
You shouldn't need a bivi bag and a tent, one or the other.
Down booties? come on man...grow a pair.
Do you really need two axes? ditch the big one.
2 cans of gas for 3 nights? prolly not. "
Really sums it up. You're taking a lot of unnecessary crap. And if you're taking a tent, You share the tent and split the load (you have tent, he has poles and fly).
What's in the orange BD stuff sack?
Way too much stuff.
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hooblie
climber
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:46pm PT
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are you familiar with the pros and cons of pulling a light sled. i was very satisfied with the setup where straps up, lashed into tub allowed for quick onto back transitions. the mission was a frozen river thru a granite gorge and previous attempts motivated the idea of spread load across the ice and not on your back for the plunges. after that i skied tours that allowed for the setup. one more reason to love my jensen pack; the back panel zippered all around and let you into the stuff while it was lashed in. real learning curve on sleds but drybacking it is worth considering. not talking about sledges but the disposable kiddy size at about 2 lbs. in suitable terrain makes the other guys really jealous, still helps to trim the load when you shoulder it.
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Coldfinger
Mountain climber
Bethany, CT
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:46pm PT
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As I get older I keep upgrading to lighter gear. In my opinion you cant beat the Stephenson's WarmLite 2 person tent. At 3 lbs its lighter than two bivy sacks and will protect you from serious weather with your gear inside and protected as well. Had mine for 5 or 6 years, no problems, and was the biggest single weight saver I ever invested in.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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I hear you mirco. I say ditch:
The snow saw;
Some combination of trecking poles and axes (prolly poles and an axe that is way smaller and lighter than what you have going);
The bivi sack if you have a tent (go single wall or mega-mid and split the load);
Your ski set up (skis, skins, saw, etc.) looks a bit burly unless the point of the trip is making turns;
And not to pile on, but booties?
What's in the black Mountain Hardware bag?
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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ok.....i'm gettin' the point.......
This pack was around 65 pounds this weekend. No wonder we were so slow.
I actually bring two therma-rests too but was afraid yall would call me a pansy. Now that we have established the fact that I actually am one, I guess I coud do without some of this stuff. This was a winter/spring ski and climb trip though, so that's why we have all the avy gear. And we actually used up total of four fuel cannisters melting cooking water and drinking water.
So for summer, I guess the Arcteryx Bora 95 is a bit much. Less fuel, only one therma rest, no tent.
Ok, how about food....I think I'm taking more than the average Joe but I'm always out when we get back to the trailhead. What would yall take for three days?
Keep up the bashing, I'm lovin' it
Slow and heavy in Fresno,
Scott
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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echo above:
>tent + bivy = one too many
>(and get a lighter/smaller tent)
>ditch the piolets; get a whippet if the hard snow makes you nervous
>one larger cannister
>ditch the bigger pot
>ensolite pad instead of inflatable; even better if it can replace your pack's back panel
>booties in April in California? seriously?
>one 8 mil. rope
>lighter/smaller harness.
>plastic shovel
>ditch the snow nerd goodies. it's APRIL.
>NEVER skimp on coffee.
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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:54pm PT
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Ill throw in some euro ideas as we tend to carry far less kit than you guys.
you don't need a bivi bag and a tent for a trip with a single days climbing. know your limits and learn that you may have to push it to get down. the tent is important and will keep you alive if the weather turns. dont leave it behind but consider reducing its size, it looks far too large.
you don't need two cans of gas for three days even in winter. Water can be melted using your poles and a head net while you are climbing using the sun. its important that the gas can fits into the pot set, you only need one pot and you don't need a mug and a bottle.
loose to red storage thingy for the MSR, loose an axe and the silly down boots. extra socks maybe but not down boots.
get a snow saw that fits in the handle of the shovel. or probe that fits in the shovel.
get a thinner rope (9 - 8.1 mm) and a light weight harness, you don't fall when alpine climbing.
your guide book can be a photocopy rather than a book.(laminated)
hope it helps
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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
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slobmonster
NEVER carry a plastic shovel as a means of digging in snow they are useless in debris.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 20, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
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"This was a winter/spring ski and climb trip though, so that's why we have all the avy gear"
Unless the trip is right after a storm in April, I'd say the avy gear is a bit unescesary. By now your looking at hardpack spring conditions. Only thing to worry about is wet slides in the late afternoon on steep slopes.
Your call on that one though.
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