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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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On the streetfighters beating skilled martial artists front, there's a recent obvious example -- Kimbo Slice. This guy was billed as the toughest street fighter ever, and was a huge internet sensation.
Then he tried to move to serious MMA.
After a couple of very unimpressive fights against tomato cans that he barely won, he was floored by a punch from a very middle of the road fighter and then pummeled until the ref stopped the fight. He wouldn't have had a chance against one of the top guys.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I can't speak of for martial arts but the touchless Chi force that I've seen Masters capable of wielding wouldn't be acting as a force against the body but rather the attacker would 'feel' Whoa, intense vibes, feel humble, stop right now."
There are some guys you feel scared just sitting in front of them
Peace
Karl
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GDavis
Trad climber
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You can scopes it but this has been tried, tested and debunked long ago. The only martial art that unequivically supreme is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Fact.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLVgPN43xhw
Thats humane self defense, cut off the circulation to the brain, let them take a nap, fight is over. Wake up none the worse for wear!
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Skyman
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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This is just a demonstration. It would not have that effect on a "real" attacker. I've been involved with QiGong, for many years. The game you see being played takes two consenting individuals. Have you ever heard of "empty force"? That is what this is a demonstration on. It would not be that way in a real attack. Empty force is real if you both know the game being played.
K
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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"He uses a few key phrases like "suffering", but the Heart Sutra has nothing to do with rivalry "
What I understood him to be saying about rivalry is that rivalry is how most people view life, but the heart sutra teaches you that we are all one and thus there is no rivalry.
This is a very deep subject and will not be understood simply by thinking that we are all one. It has to come from a very deep realization of oneness. A realization that overcomes all sense of separation and all the beliefs that stem from separation. That usually takes many years and often many lifetimes to achieve. Which is why few can wield their Chi in any affective manner. Chi is not about attacking. It is about defense. But it is not about egoic defense, where one is defending ones self to prove how tough or unbeatable one is. In oneness there is nothing to prove.
I believe that skyman is on the right track about this demonstration. One's chi can not be used to hurt another. It is a true empty hand defense. Not meaning that one does not have a weapon, but that one has no desire to hurt, not even in defense of self.
One who has attained complete mastery over ones Chi has no need to attack. That is non rivalry.
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couchmaster
climber
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I have no trust that the video is not doctored. Sorry. Have to agree with Roxjox, extraordinary claims should have extraordinary proof.
My only experience from martial arts comes from getting into a fight with 5 guys and I had to resort to a knife. It was a bloody mess all the way around and a bunch of us wound up on the ground and later in the hospital. After my head quit looking like a watermelon and the hospital stay had ended for me, I started doing Tai Kwan Do 2 times a week. Essentially it involved practicing forms (pom sei) for an hour and full contact round robin sparing with 2 black belts and a brown belt for another hour until we were all panting from exhaustion. I do this for well over a year with my goal was to never fight again, and to learn to restrain my temper. I think I'm doing well, however, 2 months after I get out of the military, I'm in London walking down the street at 1 am with my buddy Al when I see 6 young skinhead punks take down a black guy from behind 1 city block ahead. I immediately attacked. Ran at them full tilt. When I was fairly close I yelled a berserker scream and they all jumped up and ran away. Till they got about a block away and realized what had transpired. So they came back, looking pretty much like a pack of hungry wolves. About then Al finally comes up, he's a lover, not a fighter and the black guy is shaking so hard I thought he'd piss his pants. Up walk the cowards, talking nasty. It doesn't help that they're all bigger than me. I didn't say a word but stepped right up to them. They have a few bad words then one of them off to my far right took a swing and tried to blind side cold-cock me. I felt it coming and moved my head so he barely glanced off my face and simultaneously pushed his blow off with with my hand in a single fluid movement with the result that he was extremely off balance... almost to the point of it being funny if the situation hadn't been so grimly serious. They quickly changed their minds and with a flurry of nasty words, moved away, leaving us unscathed.
I was asking the fella if he was OK and why did they do that but the black guy never uttered a single word, but just shook the whole time. That was my last chance at getting in a fight and it's been 33 years. I've often wondered if I could have taken them all. I suspect I could have, I was in good shape and practice then - but I'm glad I didn't have to find out. I think that any kind of practice at a martial art is a good thing, and can't hurt for sure. I suspect that Akido, as noted above, would be the best thing to learn. It is true that the JuJitsu guys win active fights like the MMA contests, but like in a bar, under attack, from what I know - an akido artist would rule the day every time: no question about it.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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naw aikido is dancing. I guess saying Jiu Jitsu is king is sort of a farce - fact is, GRAPPLING is king. In that year training Tae Kwon Do, how many months did you spend on the ground? I'm going to go on a limb here and say none. Almost all fights go to the ground, and that is a fact. A good grappler can keep it standing or put someone on the floor and submit them. I don't plan on getting into any fights - not a good idea! You may have jitsu, but the dude may have a knife.
While I'm at it, training in knife fighting is a waste of your time. If I have a knife, I won't let you know I do, and if I KNOW you have a knife, I'm going to run away.
One of my instructors used to teach self defense in addition to the sport aspect of BJJ, but decided it was kind of useless. "Once you've been grappling for a few years, you walk around like an orangutan and no one messes with you." Thats the truth.
Really though, you want to win STREET fights? All about this, homey. All about this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQVaTEPOsTA
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Mar 14, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
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i just happened to be prowling back through this thread, as i am at present so bored with the work i need to do to get the fook out of here that, well...
three comments struck me:
first, Ricky D
> Okay - serious question for you Martial Arts aficionados if
> you would so indulge me.
> "Could you win a fight with a street gang kid?"
well, as i wrote at way more than enough length above -- i have personally watched a pal not even as big as me (and i am _way_ scrawny) stand up to a serious dope-dealing dope-enraged gangster with 100lbs more muscle mass than my pal -- and control this frothing screaming huge freak (the one swinging the sharp broken beer bottle) as if he was no more than a 4lb chihuahua.
now i have no training or expertise in any martial art. but i _saw_ that, personally. the cops who showed up later told me this big (and suddenly rather broken) gangster now frothing on the ground was, in their personal experience (though apparently not quite in a courtroom) a true killer. the real thing. and my pal had just stood there, way up close and personal, and waved him off with just the flick of his wrist. eventually, on this big dudes second attempt to murder him, my pal all but killed him with a quick snap with just two fingers.
like i said, i _saw_ that. up close, and personal -- and, frankly, scared to death for my own fay life. i hope you never have to stand up that close and witness just that.
but then, what do i know?
~~~
second, GDavis,
> naw [is that Nah?] aikido is dancing.
i kinda suspect that you might pray to all that is sacred to you to be able to dance like that -- if perhaps some guy twice your size wired on PCP and meth comes at your neck with a broken beer bottle.
fwiw, as my pal mentioned later, quietly, the 'two fingers to the trachea' trick is not Akido, but rather something he had learned as a kid in juvi-hall in south boston. he said that he did that for me. and as i was at that moment all stumbling and scared sh!tless and still at close range, i am certain that is true.
for i am certain that my pal could have "re-directed' this monster's best shots all night if he wanted to.
~~~
and third, Porkchop_express
> More importantly, how can this relate to climbing?
> I climb a lot more frequently than I fight...
as i rocket into my dotage, i am coming to suspect it has _everything_ to do with climbing. but i just can't, as of yet, explain precisely how. i kinda feel it in my gut more than get it in my head. if i ever can say it in actual words, you'll be the second to know.
ummm, yeah, i'm sure this stuff is really useful. sheeesh...
^,,^
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Jun 26, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
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This is something that finally makes sense in this crazy world.
Thanks
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Jun 27, 2015 - 07:12am PT
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No way, man, Bruce Lee would kick everybody's ass . . .
Ok, so I found this on youtube:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
I don't know. I might have believed this a few years ago, but I kinda think it's fake. Which kinda pisses you off. But, whatever, this world is full of quacks and charlatans, and people who are willing to believe.
This thread, however, is very interesting. I have to come to approach climbing as a martial art. No, it is not combative, but that's not the point even of traditional martial arts at the highest levels, right?
It's about intense focus, being totally immersed in the moment, ready for anything. It is about perfection of movement. That's the attraction of bouldering and toproping. Don't be afraid to get some route at your local crag mercilessly wired - it shows you how efficient movement feels - then you can bring that refined type of movement to your onsight attempts.
Imagine the equivilant of the above "demonstration" in climbing: Wow! he really floated up that problem, like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. More of a magic trick, not real climbing.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jun 27, 2015 - 08:12am PT
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His name is Peter Yeung and he is a classic charlatan. The students may not actually be faking due to belief..like folks who faint at faith healers are often not faking.
Lot of reports about this guy on the web ..bullying and harming students or non student those who do not show him deference seems to be a pattern of behavior for this guy over many years. Apparently has some real skill in martial arts...but basically a cult leader type.
http://thedaobums.com/topic/23785-lama-dondrup-dorje/
look up more if you like.
Here is a post from another website by a young student who began to doubt..sad stuff and classic cult issues
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=13442
Hi everyone
I'm new to this forum, but don't know where else I can turn to regarding this issue I want to raise. Does anybody here have experience of the Pathgate Institute of Buddhist Studies in Newcastle, UK?
I ask because I took refuge with the teacher there, Lama Dondrup Dorje, several years ago, and only recently have begun coming across many suggestions and reports that the Institute is not genuine, that Rinpoche hasn't been ordained, that students are brainwashed, even that our root guru Penor Rinpoche of the Nyingma tradition had once labelled Lama Dondrup as a liar. Saying these things come quite difficult to me as I've been taught to show utmost respect and faith in my teacher, and to not show disrespect to my tradition, but as Buddha taught to investigate fully our experience and especially the qualifications of our Dhamma teachers, I feel I need to raise this and see from others with more experience in practicing Dhamma whether my concerns are valid. Certain things I've experienced have left me feeling unsettled about the whole deal and seem to contradict my understanding of Buddhism, which have included:
 being verbally abused and told that we know absolutely nothing in comparison to the teacher (in the exact words, you know 0.00000000001% of what I know) - it seems all the students believe being yelled at and put down is good for them, it cuts away their egos
everything we've ever done in life is wrong
that we shouldn't read any books on Dhamma because whoever wrote them doesn't know what they're talking about, and that even when we listen to his verbal teachings we have no clue what he is talking about
that we should be compassionate toward but avoid any meaningful relationship with anyone who hasn't taken refuge, including our friends and family
I've even been out drinking with Lama Dondrup, which I thought was to relax my 'fixation' on abstaining from alcohol
I've been made to feel guilty and ashamed to tell my partner my feelings toward them because that's 'attachment' and that my love isn't real
My biggest concern in all of this is my partner. She has paid over $10,000 to go to a two month summer retreat there. In the time she's gotten more and more involved, I've seen her gradually cut off all her old friends, she's begun to treat her family very badly and distance herself from them, believes she doesn't have to work anymore and that the universe will provide all she needs, and that she has to give up everything she once loved because, to begin with, all her goals and wishes were 'wrong in the first place'.
So please, any feedback or advice on what I've raised will be really appreciated.
Thank you
Lord Buddha: Sariputta, do you believe this teaching
Sariputta: No, I don't yet believe it
Lord Buddha: Good, good, Sariputta. A wise person doesn't readily believe, he should consider first before believing
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
This video shows what happens to Kung Fu "Masters" without their "believers". Excitement begins around 2:29.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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This thread should be linked to "What is Mind", where emptiness has the power to seduce the wary.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Anybody have a link for the video of Morihei Ueshiba taking on all comers?
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