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z
Novice climber
z
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 19, 2002 - 02:04pm PT
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Bill Russell pulled the bolts on top of Cathedral Peak last fall and several other routes in Tuolumne this summer.
His ethics; if they were not there on the first ascent they don't belong there.
Why don't you go pull all the non original bolts on the Nose?? Eh Bill?
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Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 02:07pm PT
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I guarantee you I will rebolt it. Just to spite any of you elitists. It will happen before winter.
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Fred
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 02:14pm PT
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What gives him the right to pull the bolts?? He is a guide at the Yosemite Climbing School and was known for adding chicken bolts on big walls when he used to climb. He pulls these bolts when he working so someone should call his boss.
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jocko
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 02:14pm PT
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i intend to add rappel stations, bolts and chains, at five locations on the southeast buttress of cathedral peak. too many people have been caught in thunderstorms and fixed rappel stations would make retreat safer. if they are chopped, i will return and rebolt them.
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peak bagger
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 02:51pm PT
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The bolts on top should have never been chopped. They take nothing away from the climb, and only facilitate retreat from a small summit, which is often the site of crowded clusters and bad weather.
If bill indeed chopped them I hope YMS fires his ass.
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Marc
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 03:23pm PT
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whatever happens I hope we wont see loads of ugly scars from people pulling bolts, re-drilling, re-pulling, on and on. PLEASE MAKE ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS TOP PRIORITY
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Pissed Off
Advanced climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 04:01pm PT
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Here is the deal, Bill pulled the bolts while guiding and did not fill in the holes. Other climbers filled in the holes later.
Do any of you remember the bolt wars of the 80's? Many bolts were chopped but they have since been replaced. Sure those bolts on Cathedral Peak were not there when John Muir climbed it but times have changed. There are sometimes 6 to 10 climbers on the summit and some may not want to down climb or are not capable of it.
They will probably be replaced and Bill may chop them again.So who loses here? The rock.
What gives Bill the right to dictate how we should climb? The only reason Bill will ever be on the summit of Cathedral Peak is when he is guiding. He never goes up there for the enjoyment of the route and to just climb it for fun.
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rocko
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 04:07pm PT
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the rock doesnt care... the environmental impact of bolting and chopping is nill... this is about climber ethics and thats all... dont kid yourself into thinking its anything more
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Mike
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 04:10pm PT
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Generally speaking I think bolts don't belong on mountain summits which are the most holy of all places....sounds to me like he was in the right.
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asdf
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 05:10pm PT
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That's all good. But who decides what is "holy?" This was brought up a few months ago. The bottom line is that it will ALWAYS get rebolded no matter what. So if you chop them, you are only ensuring more scars. If you leave them, that would be the end of it.
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Martin Z
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 05:34pm PT
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IF this is true:
Bill's actions were improper. He is destroying property that is not his. I will be making a call to the Tuolumne Ranger Station to ask that he be contacted and that his employer - YCS - be informed.
Tuolumne Ranger Station number is 209-372-0450(1).
I would encourage others to call the Park Service, especially if you have specific information regarding when he chopped the bolts and confirming whether he did do it on company time (or not).
A lot of people, including the SAR team, expect those bolts to be there.
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MS
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 07:13pm PT
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Warning: A strong opinion here. Reader discretion is advised.
Pulling bolts on Cathedral Peak eh? Why not just rip out all the fixed anchors atop every route with a descent easier than say 5.5. Or the whole Royal Arches rappel route for that matter?
Seriously, who has the right to oppress the way all climbers practice safely, especially when said practices are well within the acceptable methods deployed with minimal controversy in the same area? Bill Russell, or anyone else pulling fixed anchors that are accepted and expected by many for the sake of enforcing his/her personal ethics is exercising his power and control of the rest of us. Extreme indeed. That goes directly against the live and let live philosophy most of us climbers respect and which I do my best to abide (Don’t say it. I already know what you’re thinking).
Besides, I don’t see how removing those bolts will add to the quality of the climb. If it did I would sing a different tune. I’ve been to the top of many a route, and no rappel bolt has, or is going to ruin the experience one iota. But tons of scaring might. If mountain peaks were supposed to be protected from human impact, then put your money where you mouth is (Bolt Chopper) and stop climbing them. So please LEAVE YOUR BIBELS rather BOLT CHOPPERS AT HOME! ROCK CLIMBING IS NOT A RELIGION WITH A LIST OF TEN COMMANDMENTS!
People do crap like that because they got their head stuck in a crack and they’ve lost sight of what’s REALLY important; like safety, fun and the sense of adventure, which by the way is up to individuals to decide, not guides, professionals or self anointed experts.
MS out...
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crystalpsycho
Advanced climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 07:46pm PT
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you can slander bill all you want but i will defend his actions. "convienience" anchors such as these should be removed and discouraged. who decided it was o.k. to add bolts to an existing route? a pretentious bastard that's who. it's not about safety, the place was always safe. if bill didn't remove them someone else (such as myself) would have. if you replace them then you are destroying the rock as they WILL be removed again.
don't bother calling his employer to fire bill as they are well aware of his actions.
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asdf
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 08:04pm PT
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Ok here we go again. So YOU get to define "convienience?" Not for me you can't, or probably anyone else. What are any bolts for?...they're for you to conveniently not die.
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sans guide ahora
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 08:09pm PT
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Bill guided me once and I thought he was a jerk, figures he'd chop em.
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Duh Judge
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 08:11pm PT
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If you die downclimbing from the summit of Cathedral then you should not have been there in the first place, it is not an accident, it is your own damn fault and will be ruled suicide.
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jim bob
Novice climber
san jose
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 08:35pm PT
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I'm going to drill a bolt ladder aid route parallel to the SE Buttress of Cathedral Peak. Hopefully this is cool with everybody.
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jocko
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 08:50pm PT
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no way man thats going too far and i will chop them all!
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Mr. L
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 10:20pm PT
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I can't believe some of the weak arguments I've heard hear. One guy essentially saying, "if you chop the bolts they will inevitably be replaced so just leave them or you'll create more scarring." Another basically saying, "if you place more bolts they will inevitably be chopped so don't replace them or you'll create more scarring." Brilliant!
As has been pointed out already, you are either deluding yourself or are disingenuous if you are arguing that bolting is an environmental catastrophe. This is an ethical dilemma.
Personally I'm against adding bolts to an established route unless it's to an anchor that already has bolts. Climbing for me is not about convenience, but if there are already bolts at an anchor I'm not opposed to making it more convenient. I think there is a certain aesthetic value inherent in a clean summit or a natural anchor. I value those things. Some people value convenience more.
Don't confuse convenience and safety. This is another specious argument that's been made. Sure, because of a convenient anchor more inexperienced climbers can be safe rapping off the top instead of downclimbing the 15' 4-5 class crack, but most probably wouldn't be there without those bolts. Since the bolts went in I've seen traffic on Cathedral skyrocket. Before the bolts, there was just a hint of a trail leading off the Bud Lake trail, now it's just as prominent.
With the huge growth in climbing over the past decade a large number of people have developed the attitude that they have a right to safer more convenient climbing; whatever happened to getting your appprenticeship in trad and working your way up? But, oh no that's elitist; "I've been certified to belay in the gym and my buddy leads the red routes, we can't downclimb, but we think we can rappel, it's not fair waaaaaanhhhh." Please don't be the great savior; the servant of the public good.
John Muir climbed Cathedral Peak in 1869. No chalk, no fancy shoes with sticky rubber. The summit went for approximately 125 years without bolts. But now we desperately need them? This is progress?
SL
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Martin Z
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2002 - 11:08pm PT
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SL: I'm pretty sure the expansion of the trail to Budd Lake is unrelated to the bolts on Cathedral. The trail was developed, in 1997, by the National Park Service to manage the environmental impact that had been growing progresively worse over many years due to increased traffic by both climbers and non-climbers.
MZ
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