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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Holy Crap! That Confast 1/4" buttonhead is rated to 5400 lbs of shear strength and 1050 lbs for pullout! That shear number is huge for a 1/4" bolt. A 3/8" x 2.75" wedge bolt is only rated to 3700 lbs in shear. The Power's 1/4" buttonhead is rated to 1760 lbs for pullout and 2090 lbs for shear.
-n
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2008 - 11:14pm PT
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Sal, what kind of drill bit you using for those Confast's?
I hate to go back and redrill to 3/8" but on some routes I really need to go faster and quicker on the drill. My calves can't hold out that much.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Fixe shouldn't be selling those, Kevin Daniels told me that he was going to stop selling them and try to get shops to stop selling them, and that was at least 5 years ago.
But sure enough, they are still on the Fixe website - 8 x 40mm.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Mungie,
I use a standard 1/4in X 4in Bosch SDS drill bit.
Gotta have the 4in one, the more available 6in bit bends too easily.
Confast is an excellent company. My orders usually only take a few days to arrive on my doorstep, unlike FIXE which takes up to two weeks at twice the shipping charges.
Their 3/8 and 1/2 inch bolts are excellent too.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2008 - 03:17am PT
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thx Sal.
i need to get me some a couple more shorty bits for that kind of work if I go that way.
disappointing about the FIXE bolts.
I separated out a thread for that as it seems damn important.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 11, 2008 - 12:27pm PT
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Death-defying buttonhead story finally added to the "Climbing at Squamish in the 1970s" thread.
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Dec 11, 2008 - 01:04pm PT
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Greg writes: "Fixe shouldn't be selling those, Kevin Daniels told me that he was going to stop selling them and try to get shops to stop selling them, and that was at least 5 years ago.
But sure enough, they are still on the Fixe website - 8 x 40mm."
Hi Greg, I agree with you. I bought several hundred from Kevin a while back. I tried everything to make them work- hand drilled, power drilled, different size bits, everything. They're just too soft, and often buckle when you hammer them in.
I was doing a new route on Higher Cathedral Rock, 30 feet out, and hand drilled a perfect 5/16 inch hole. When I attempted to pound in the 5/16 inch fixe button-head, it buckled- no good. I was able to yank it out and pound in the last 5/16 rawl button head I had- went in no problem. Not exactly easy to do on a stance 30 ft. out! Those old rawl 5/16 inch button heads were the best for hand drilling (4800 lb sheer.)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 13, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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safety sessions are always welcomed.
My concern with buttonheads is 20+years of that "freeze thaw effect" might make them useless for future climbers.
Life safety is way more important to me these days.
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Nate Ricklin
climber
San Diego
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Dec 13, 2008 - 11:32am PT
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Thanks for the beta Salamanizer, I ended up ordering a box from them.
Question: what hangers do you use for the 1/4 inchers? Looks like Pika sells a superlight one but it's a bit pricey...
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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Dec 13, 2008 - 12:00pm PT
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"sport climbing as a gym born phenomena didn't happen til we started seeing gyms produce sport climbers really."
Sorry to butt into the oh-so-interesting technicalities of button head bolts, but this statement up-thread struck me.
From my perspective of 80's climbing history, gyms came about shortly on the heels of sport climbing, as a by-product of that.
I think the first sport climb I did was at Joshua Tree or Suicide in 1987 or so.
When I moved back to Boulder in 1989, there was Cats gym in Boulder, more a place for little girls gymnastics really. The next gym I saw was in Denver, then the Bolder Rock Club, this would have been in the early 90's?????
So I think sport climbing came first, then gyms.
I helped place a bolt, on lead, once. I don't know if it was a button head or not, I only helped drill. It was fun.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Where are YOU from?
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Dec 13, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
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Tap, tap, tap.....
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Dec 13, 2008 - 02:11pm PT
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Nate, just use your standard fare bolt hanger. They work just fine. Look around, you can usually score cheap hangers for 1.75 to 1.95ea. Barrabes has good sales as does Acme Climbing and Ebay. Fixe is overpriced.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Dec 13, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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Clint, Sorry it took so long to reply. Working long hours at the plant getting ready for the "Big Show" in January. Pulled out the log book for 2007 and yes there were some strange things about those first few pitches of "Friday the 13th". The second bolt on the second pitch was a double. I figured this to be an anchor for what I called a "Variation third pitch" There were three bolts on this pitch and it rejoined "Friday the 13th" at the second bolt of the third pitch. This variation was way easier and not so run-out as the pitch shown in the 1987 and 1994 guides. Also I seem to remember that the bolts on the first three pitches were button heads compared to the taper bolts found on the pitches above. It was like a period of time had passed before that 10c fourth pitch was climbed and the route completed. I will dig out that box from 2007 and take another look at the bolts/hangers from those first three pitches, that variation pitch, and the pitches above and get back to you.
Roger Brown
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Dec 13, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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The Warbler wrote: "First bolt, first buttonhead for me was the third bolt, first pitch of Stoner's. Now it's the fourth bolt, as we retrobolted the pitch with a bolt to better protect future followers of the crux traverse.
Largo was barking instructions from the base - I was a good thirty feet out looking at a possible ground fall.
But the stance was bomber."
Man, I totally forgot that we retrofittd that first pitch. When we first did it, that first lead was deadly if you fell after the traverse. Fall there and you'd go for, like 70 feet.
We used a stack of buttonheads on that route and most of them were pretty good for years. The other, threaded bolts failed after just a few months for reasons that still are a little mysterious.
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Dec 13, 2008 - 05:22pm PT
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We're thread jacking but hey, that was a great day at the base of Middle (1972??) when we first cast off on Stoners. The first move off the deck was 5.9, and 1,200 feet of slab loomed overhead. I was the guy with all the "experience," having climbed many of the hard face routes at Tahquitz and Suicide but having little experience on new routes. That didn't stop us. We were on a mission. How many times, during all those early probes on the route, did we say, "If we can only get this part, the route is ours." Amazing route in the respect that if you move a few feet on either side the climbing becomes either 5.12 or impossible. I remember being adamant that there was a route there, but looking back, I was just hoping there was . . . but we'd have a blast finding out, and scare the crap out of ourselves in the process, and that was the point after all.
JL
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Dec 14, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
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Clint,
I took a good look at the stuff from 2007. Yes that "variation pitch" could have started at the west end of the ledge at the top of Hershey Highway. The bolts were as follows: The first bolt was a little above and to the right of the double bolts on the second pitch of "Friday the 13th" (1994 guide), then two more bolts to a 2 bolt anchor, then 1 more bolt that was just a bit below and to the right of the 2nd bolt of the 3rd pitch of "Friday the 13th" (1994 guide). All the bolts were 1/4" button heads with matching Leeper style hangers. The hangers were unmarked. 2 of the bolts had way old bail slings. All of the protection bolts on "Friday the 13th were threaded Rawl to the top of the 3rd pitch. After that they were Taper Bolts. My notes show you replaced the last 4 bolts on "Friday the 13th" so you probably have those bolts/hangers around there somewhere. We started replacing the "Friday the 13th" bolts on the 13th of July that year. Yea, it was a Friday :-)
Roger Brown
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