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jfs
Trad climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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OII - lol.
Dude, the chip on your shoulder isn't very becoming. Chill out.
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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I have always been motivated to remind people of the powerful tactics of marketing. Don’t think that your climbing forum is unique to this. What’s strange to me, is that no matter the forum, everyone adamantly states that marketing doesn’t work on them. (or anyone they know). So, if it isn’t effective, why do the corporations continue to employ it? Viral marketing, yes, Patagonia is as guilty as the next.
They create “authenticity” and you buy it!
I, on the other hand, fight to keep it real, it's nothing personal toward the ambassadors, it's a fight against memes.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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Insider
You're on the wrong battlefield.
The enemy is you.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:26am PT
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Dude, have you never traveled? Perhaps you just can't imagine someone being profoundly moved by their experience in a place such as Ethiopia. I went to Mexico to help build an Orphanage. I was only going to stay a week, as I had a good paying job at the time and that was all the time off I could get. I ended up quitting my job and staying for 3 months to help finish it. That is how much I was moved by the experience.
People make up all kinds of reasons to do things, then change with the experience. If you don't know this, then you haven't lived that much. Perhaps you need to get out from behind the counter.
Hmmm. lets see. write a book about a rare coffee bean. Well.. shoot, if someone will pay me to go, then okay. but boring. Get there, see heavy duty real life sh#t happening before your eyes plus see world class mountains that no one has climbed. Yeah.. yer right. I see your point. Why give up the book about a "rare" coffee been to write about that other stuff. shucks. The coffee bean would be WAAAAAAY more interesting.
Come on dude.
Ya gotta be a troll. Though I applaud you for having the courage to come back and face the music. But please try to see that people aren't all the same. Some plod along and accomplish great things, others go zing zang boom and also accomplish great things. Thats just the way that it is, and aint it great. Personally I am glad that there are whiz bangs out there like Majka. Maybe thats why Patagonia hired her. Cause she aint a stick in the mud.
Plus maybe they hired her because she can inspired people to drop what they are doing and go on great adventures. If she can inspire them to do that, then perhaps she can inspire them to do other things, such as buy product. Wow.. what a thought.
And perhaps this is a brilliant way to push some of us to take a look at her book. Kudos if that was your intention.
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adam d
climber
CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:41am PT
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so OII,
your "allegation" is that she used a journalistic trip to Ethopia to do FA's?
nope...doesn't sound like a quality climber to me.
is she a journalism or climbing ambassador for Pataguch?
be serious!
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:42am PT
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We are a race of consumers. Everyone who buys a Patagucci product will buy something. And companies like Patagonia figure that, it someone is going to buy something, that thing might as well be from thier company.
When you consider the ethical and environmental stances taken by Patagonia, and similar companies, shouldn't we all be more comfortable with people buying their stuff, instead of generic, lesser quality stuff from companies who don't take such active measures to mitigate the problems of production?
And BTW, all of those climbers listed as their ambasadors are really, actually BAD AS$ climbers - they deserve it. How can you wish them ill? It is like slagging your favorite band because they finally got a hit song on the radio after years of struggling. Don't they DESERVE some recognition and payback for all thier hard work? You can bet that those in most other professions would not work so hard for no financial return. If a climber who has been working hard at it for a long time can finally get paid a bit for it, then good for them!
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:54am PT
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I wuz just readin' through CLIMBING mag #109, August 1988, the one with Jim Sandford busting out DOA at the Pet Wall on the cover. A mag from before my time, full of Lycra, Edlinger, Snowbird, 5.12s as newsworthy, complaints about the British grading system (so what else is new), Messner still climbing, and other 80s stuff.
Anyways in the letters section, some guy is taking Mark Twight (or was he "Marc" at the time?) to task for suggesting that "corporate sponsorship is the key to raising the standards of American alpine climbing".
The letter writer rags on Mark's suggestion, telling him to go after Bud Light if he wants sponsors, or move to France, or get a job - and asks "who really cares if Joe Blow used a particular pack on Everest?"
The letter writer's name?
Yvon Chouinard.
I LOL'd.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:01am PT
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Patagonia's ambassador program was really Ridgeway's thing.
Yvon didn't want it.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Lothlórien
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:04am PT
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> I have always been motivated to remind people of the powerful tactics of
> marketing. Don’t think that your climbing forum is unique to this. What’s
> strange to me, is that no matter the forum, everyone adamantly states that
> marketing doesn’t work on them. (or anyone they know). So, if it isn’t
> effective, why do the corporations continue to employ it? Viral marketing,
> yes, Patagonia is as guilty as the next.
Well golly gee gosh! I guess we're all a bunch o' moe-rons and you are here to enlighten us! Thanks for letting us in on the big secret. How could we have been so clueless?
> They create “authenticity” and you buy it!
>
> I, on the other hand, fight to keep it real, it's nothing personal toward the
> ambassadors, it's a fight against memes.
And you are the one true purveyor of "authenticity" then. Oh lord, we have been Perceval lost in the forest and now you have shown us the path to enlightenment! But you are taking on a pose and marketing it too.
Werner said it best... take a look in the mirror if you dare see what might lie within. I really don't know, but at some level, you do.
Nice troll! OK, back to being inspired by Ouch!
Peace,
Fletch
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 08:19am PT
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outdoor industry insider, do you still work for Patagonia?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:28am PT
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Hey O.I.I.,
In your "fight to keep it real", do your part to keep it real and identify yourself and your grudge. What's up? If you're seeking help, we can only do so if we know your motivations.
The list of Patagonia ambassadors is made up of honorable and excellent climbers of all types. I've known some of them for 35 years (Wilford) and have climbed with most of them at one time or another. Every one of them is the real deal with serious accomplishments under their belts. I can't think of a better group to epitomize the term "Ambassador".
Mal
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Jim E
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:07am PT
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O.I.I.,
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm somewhat of an insider myself. In the past I've gotten a little annoyed and frustrated with the number of posers who claim to be sponsored or are sponsored seemingly unjustifiably.
I know of some of the people you've mentioned, some I've met, and some I know. I wouldn't characterize most of them as posers but there are certainly others out there that are.
My advice, for what it's worth, is let it go. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the companies do to market themselves or what certain individuals do to sell themselves to those companies or the public. If they are selling a lifestyle so be it. I live my own and don't really pay attention to the attention seekers.
I've never been one for hero worship and have never bought a single piece of climbing gear or clothing, or pretty much anything, based on what so and so is using in an ad. I know it's just marketing hype and fluff.
Let it go. Enjoy your own experiences. Share them with your friends. Enjoy your friends stories. Maybe look to those you respect for inspiration.
I really hate it when people say "climb for yourself". It seems disingenuous and cliché. There is some truth to it, though.
In the Grand Scheme it doesn't matter.
Let it go.
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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It's funny...I've never doubted any claims or motivations of Wilford and most other accomplished ambassadors of Patagonia. It's the new up and coming ambassadors...their stories and personalities seem contrived from the start. Their expeditions seem contrived from the start. They are characters written into the company's image.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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What Jim Says. We all hate being manipulated but then we are anyway. Some consolation is found in the self-belief that each of us are above the fray. As we walk away in our Nike shoes and Tommy Hilfiger pants. It's as stupid as the runway game and ready wear Paris shows, but there it is anyway, like a large elephant in a small room.
Then you got guys like the 2 Grahams (Gramici), and Graham (Cilogear), who strive to make great stuff people want to buy for superior utilitarian purposes, so they tell their friends about it and they can sell more, without having to directly sell YOU.
PS, wheres the new Big Wally Cilogear pack Graham 1?
PSS, wheres the synthetic pants other Graham?
(internet buzzzzzz starting)
__
PS, I find it interesting that the "authentic marketing strategy link you provide lists REI as "authentic". "REI, promoting its outdoor gear by building a popular climbing wall and walking trail near its Seattle store."
Whats more authentic than using real climbers (and all Patagonias are real)?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:45am PT
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O.I.I., further to your worries about your heroes being less than truthful. I've known Brittany (BAG) for at least 15 years and have watched her turn into a really solid rock climber who I would trust in any situation and now has to hang the rope for me all the time. She can also drink me under the table in a pinch and has the sometimes disturbing knack for telling it like it is... always. She can have a spot at the end of my rope any time and is a terrific ambassador for Patagonia. She's the real deal and is probably more like the average Betty-the-Climber than most of the other ambassadors. I'm sure that if you got to hang out with her you'd become a fan.
I've only know Majka for a few years but she's the real deal too. Before writing her book, going on tour and getting famous she was a Mountain Guide for years and has left an impressive track record of trad ascents in the area. She an AMGA Certified Rock Guide and can drag my ass around the mountains anytime. As for changing the reason for her trip to Ethiopa after her first visit, I guess you've never had to recalibrate your worldview after running into something totally unexpected and new. I'm sorry for you if that's the case. It's challenging, refreshing and character building. Give it a try.
Peace,
Mal
Oops-Full Disclosure Time: We sponsor Majka with some gear and I've bought beer for Brittany as well as drank some of hers.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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A hundred years ago we saw a climbing short made by someone we knew affectionately as "Ghastly Rubberface". It had these shots of completely unprotected climbing on an overhanging arete, seen in profile. It was stomach churning. Then the frame was filled by a close up of the edge of a rock. A huge hand came around from the other side and the size of a crack was gauged using one finger. A pin came around, was put into the crack and was driven.
Then a huge boot came around and planted itself squarely on top of the pin.
We are just having fun here, kids.
Yvon's catalog with all those photographs give me heartburn, but that's just me. The truth? If there is a photograph you know there were top ropes close to hand.
One of the hardest tasks we all have is that of figuring out who our real friends are. It is not easy. From all that I have seen when something really important has to be done, Yvon will be there with his shirt off.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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OII - "It's the new up and coming ambassadors...their stories and personalities seem contrived from the start."
This is no different for every expedition seeking sponsorship in one form or another. Somehow they have to make themselves different from everyone else so someone will pay for their expedition. I gave friends crap cause they did the first "carbon neutral" climb on Denali. But guess what it worked - they got all kinds of deals.
So all these posers out there are just trying to figure out how to make their name for a some sort of first no matter how contrived. You know like the first all nude snowboard circumnavigation of the south pole while singing When the Saints go Marching.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
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Jumping ahead from 80's era Climbing to the modern issues of Climbing, i see Majka has written a couple columns for Climbing Mag on the climbing/dating scene.
Maybe OII is either a disgruntled ex or more likely, a disgruntled rejection? OII did you make it to first base or were you dropped at the coffee date stage? Or did you just lech over her picture in the mag?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:47pm PT
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Hmmm... And here all this time I thought their marketing ploy was simply to make fashionable, urban wear, along with a few functional items, and charge three times as much as the other companies. Who'da thunk it?
Just curious - has the OP looked up the definition of marketing?
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