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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 26, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
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Patagonia’s marketing ploy is to sell a lifestyle. I love Patagonia! In fact, I have a pull-over that’s lasted 10 years…why isn’t that enough to sell a product…well, because if it lasts 10 years, I don’t need to purchase another from Patagonia for 10 years! Instead, Patagonia uses their “Ambassadors” to sell a lifestyle, a lifestyle that will appeal to a much broader consumer. You can go to Patagonia’s website and read through the wild tales of each ambassador. They look cool, have cool climber lives, who doesn’t want to be just like them and have a cool lifestyle.
I’ve been behind the scenes of events where Patagonia’s ambassadors come to sell a lifestyle. The latest is Majak Burhardt’s presentation on her book “Vertical Ethiopia”. She presents herself as a climber, guide, and writer. Last year, it was Brittany Griffith, she presented herself as an ADHD party girl that chases after adrenaline. With each presentation, there are many references made to climbing, and lots of name-dropping with “real” climbers. Yet, I find myself chasing after inconsistencies in their stories. I’m just an average climber, average outdoor person, but I can’t help but think that they didn’t really do all of the things they imply. Then, whenever I research a particular patagonia ambassador online, their background doesn’t reach back very far, just a few years, and all links are cross references to Patagonia’s information.
What’s my point? Their resumes don’t add up! Patagonia would like the general climbing community to believe that all of their ambassadors our outdoor enthusiasts cranking down the hard routes, in wild places around the world. Some are, but others are charlatans. I’ve got a friend whose obsessed with climbing. She’s got her name in a bizillion trip-reports online (hardly any did she write, since she’s too busy climbing, and could really care less). Yet, Majak Burhardt and Brittany Griffith are assumed to have been climbing, guiding, adventure writing, doing all of these activities, feverishly for YEARS and still there are few pictures ‘cept patagonia’s pictures, few stories ‘cept patagonia’s version, no real credibility. Yeah, they have climbed some stuff, they have written some articles. But I wouldn’t say they represent the finest.
Patagonia has shifted from sponsoring legendary climbers with epic tales to tell, to sponsoring carefully selected people whose story they will invent, whose background dabbling in the outdoors they will exaggerate and loosely link with real climbers. Patagonia writes the story first, the story sells the lifestyle, and then they find the perfect model. The Patagonia brand supersedes reality. Patagonia is ok with exaggerations. If I’m wrong, someone, anyone (besides Patagonia) please cough up some stories, pictures, anything to suggest that they have done ALL of the things they profess…I say ALL, because it’s the exaggeration that I have issue with.
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
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Oct 26, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
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Do you have an example of an exagerated claim made by Patagonia? Or a story they invented? You surely must if you are a self proclaimed insider making such claims.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 26, 2008 - 01:47pm PT
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From the Patagonia website:
Rock Climbing: Majka Burhardt, Eric DeCaria, Brittany Griffith, Lynn Hill, Ron Kauk, Timmy O'Neill, Kate Rutherford, Sonnie Trotter.
Alpine Climbing: Vince Anderson, Barry Blanchard, Kitty Calhoun, Jonny Copp, Kelly Cordes, Colin Haley, Zoe Hart, Steve House, Mark Wilford.
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/patagonia.go?assetid=2897&ln=81
Seems a fairly varied and credible line up to me. Perhaps not all are well-established climbing superstars, or in fact are included because they combine climbing with other worthy things in a way that Patagonia feels it should support. But there's more to climbing than just climbing, eh? And not all of those sponsored can have long track records - you have to have a farm team.
The one group I'd add would be community builders - the people who create and look after the non-profits that do so many important things on climbers' behalf, whether the Yosemite Climbing Association, the Access Fund, Geoff Tabin's work with the visually-impaired, the Hillary Foundation, etc etc. Patagonia and others support those groups, but sometimes the individuals behind them should be patted on the back too.
I saw Majka Burkhardt speak last summer, and was quite impressed. Her climbs in Ethiopia may not have been anything to make much of, but her using them as a lever to do something else is.
ps Proud owner of one pair of Patagonia shorts.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:22pm PT
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Setting credentials aside I think more importantly these people embody the Patagonia DNA. If you look too far beyond the surface you can get lost in the hype. We can thank NIKE for creating the must have high paid athletes to promote our brands way of thinking. Speaking from experience this works but it’s sure nice when climbers support the brands for what they are at face value.
These few that Patagonia support are the real deal and besides it’s their job.
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andanother
climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
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Hell yeah. We haven't had a good rant thread in a while!
I like a good scandal as much as the next guy. But I'm not really sure where you're going with this.
To call yourself an “outdoor industry insider” is comical. If you had any experience in this field, you'd know that 99% of an athletes accomplishments go unreported.
Yes, you may be an “insider” to the clothing and brand names of the industry. And I'm sure you can drop names with the best of them. But you don't know anything about the actual sports.
These type of sports aren't like football, bike racing, etc... The term “outdoor” typically refers to something more remote than a stadium in the middle of a city. So camera crews aren't always present. Reporters are rarely standing by the sidelines. And, yet somehow these athletes manage to pull off incredible feats!
Just because each of their accomplishments didn't get a cover story in Climbing doesn't mean it didn't happen. These people have worked pretty damn hard to get where they are today.
"feverishly for YEARS and still there are few pictures ‘cept patagonia’s pictures, few stories ‘cept patagonia’s version, no real credibility"
You should take some time and actually pursue one of these “outdoor sports”. You'll quickly learn how things work. Many make the assumption that they have tons of experience and are “experts” simply because they started climbing 20, 30, or 40 years ago.
But years don't add up to experience. Experience adds up to experience. The famous climbers are passionate and enthusiastic about what they do. And with that type of drive, these people can gain more experience in 6 months than most people get over 40 years.
And what do you mean “no real credibility”?
Just because they don't spray about their accomplishments means they aren't credible?
Climbers learn about humility very early on in the careers. They don't call the photogs every time they go climbing. They don't make a world-wide announcement before every major send.
Yes, some of their bigger accomplishments might see major press coverage. But in order to get that type of coverage, a person has to do a LOT of climbing. For every story that is written on a person, there are literally hundreds of amazing stories that have gone unnoticed. For every photograph you see of a famous person, there were probably thousands of other photo-ops that were lost because that person wasn't arrogant enough to call a photographer.
You should take up your argument with one of these “posers”. Tell them you have a high ranking desk job “in the industry”, so you obviously know what you're talking about.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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While marketing departments can and often do appropriate, manipulate & conjur images falsely, I'd say Majka isn't lacking in authenticity.
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10b4me
climber
the gray bands
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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Majka Burkhardt, Eric DeCaria, Brittany Griffith, Lynn Hill, Ron Kauk, Timmy O'Neill, Kate Rutherford, Sonnie Trotter,
Vince Anderson, Barry Blanchard, Kitty Calhoun, Jonny Copp, Kelly Cordes, Colin Haley, Zoe Hart, Steve House, Mark Wilford.
never heard of these people. what are they famous for?
seriously, I've met Lynn, Ron, and Kate. they are outstanding folks.
I've seen Eric, Timmy, Sonnie, and Barry climb. I don't question any of these reputations, why should the op?
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
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Marketing 1A
Everybody is far too serious...........
Just remember," You Can Pet Your Pussy But You Can't Pat Your Gonia"
I said that. Even Yvon laughed.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:43pm PT
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I wouldn't slander Brittany Griffith. She has been around for years and does embody the "Patagonia lifestyle." Where have you been?
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adam d
climber
CA
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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I'd say PAtaG's marketing of the "lifestyle" feels more fake lately, though not due to the lack of cred of their ambassadors.
Can't complain though, I got a $500 gift card from the warranty department this week for a bunch of busted old stuff I sent back to them. my own Patagonia Bailout!
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Oct 26, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
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"...whose background dabbling in the outdoors they will exaggerate and loosely link with real climbers."
Are they hiring? Where can I get an application?
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jack splat
climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 03:02pm PT
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I've seen Brittany climb pretty hard. I've seen her redpoint fallen arches (a 5.13 crack). She's no imposter. Maybe you don't know much about her because SHE"S NOT A SPRAYER!
You seem like the kinda person who probably is though.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 26, 2008 - 03:16pm PT
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For another perspective.
Team Mad Rock - "some of the best athletes on the planet!": http://www.teammadrock.com/
I like guido's joke. Perhaps we should have a thread about climbers and puns.
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crazyfingers
climber
CA
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Oct 26, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
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none of this conversation matters because Patagonia brand stuff makes one a better climber/person and we all know it.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 26, 2008 - 03:51pm PT
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News flash: becoming a celebrity is about self-promotion, not being good at what you do.
Number of Oscars Tom Cruise has won: 0 Nuf said.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Oct 26, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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You seem to be short on proof, long on spray. One thing I know from personal experience is Yvon puts his money where his mouth is and supports the conservation causes with LOTS of money. That would buy him a lot of benefit of the doubt, but he does not seem to need it here.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Oct 26, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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You seem to be short on proof, long on spray. One thing I know from personal experience is Yvon puts his money where his mouth is and supports the conservation causes with LOTS of money. That would buy him a lot of benefit of the doubt, but he does not seem to need it here.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 26, 2008 - 04:25pm PT
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Black Diamond sponsored climbers (Canada & U.S.A.):
Conrad Anker (USA)
Matt Bosley (USA)
Katie Brown (USA)
Tommy Caldwell (USA)
Kitty Calhoun (USA)
Jasmin Caton (USA)
Jonny Copp (USA)
Eric Decaria (USA)
Ben Firth (Canada)
Chuck Fryberger (USA)
Will Gadd (Canada)
Rolando Garibotti (USA)
Colin Haley (USA)
Alex Honnold (USA)
Sean Isaac (Canada)
Charlotte Jouett (USA)
Mike Libecki (USA)
Kevin Mahoney (USA)
Rich Marshall (Canada)
Rob Miller (USA)
Julia Niles (USA)
Renan Ozturk (USA)
Chris Schulte (USA)
Matt Segal (USA)
David Sharratt (USA)
Justen Sjong (USA)
Raphael Slawinski (Canada)
Paul "Pablo" Stein (USA)
Heidi Wirtz (USA)
Josh Wharton (USA)
Cedar Wright (USA)
http://www.bdel.com/scene/athletes/index.php
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Oct 26, 2008 - 06:18pm PT
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OII, get a grip. You are barking up the wrong tree.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 08:35pm PT
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......
so?
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Crag Q
Trad climber
Louisville, Colorado
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Oct 26, 2008 - 09:18pm PT
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Hey Inside Outer,
If you see a proctologist, they can probably get out whatever crawled up your *ss and died.
Brittany has been cranking hard for years and appears to be a cheerful and humorous lass. Check out the stobly clip on youtube to see a true adventure. Also, I believe she has been sponsored by Metolious for the last ten years or so.
I have met Majka a couple times and she's a class act as far as I can tell. She pulls down pretty hard and seems to have fun doing it. She's also willing to poke fun at herself in her writing.
You seem to imply there is some standard that athletes must meet in order to be sponsored. The litmus test for being sponsored is whether or not you can get sponsored and that depends solely on whether or not the company thinks your image represents the brand. So, where is the big controversy in that? Apparently they're good enough for patagonia and patagonia can choose between anyone they want.
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Trippel40
Social climber
CO
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Oct 26, 2008 - 09:36pm PT
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To me, the skewed marketing seems to be the pictures in the ads and product catalogs where at LEAST every other picture is a woman climbing hard stuff. While I think its cool, I think it doesn't accurately represent the climbing population. For better or worse there are a lot more guys out there leading hard stuff than girls contrary to the picture these folks paint.
Regardless of the subject, marketers painting a picture that doesn't jive with reality always annoys me. THAT is selling a false "lifestyle". Of course it is a free country and women are conditioned to be such better shoppers than men so it makes sense, unfortunately.
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:26pm PT
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Could this be a viral marketing ploy? Reverse psychology to get people to say nice things in defense of Patagonia?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:32pm PT
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good point halifax...
That's IT dammit!!!
I wanna be a sponsoredhotchictradster...
Golly, I wonder if that's within my grasp???
I need a gig too...next stop: extreme makeover.
tarBUSTer
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:33pm PT
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"Could this be a viral marketing ploy? Reverse psychology to get people to say nice things in defense of Patagonia? "
I'll counter that idea by saying that although I wear a lot of pataguccis stuff - I can never figure out how to get the stink out of the armpits of their damn Capilene!!!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:33pm PT
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Tarbuster: prancing with the stars. Hee hee.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:46pm PT
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The very first line: "Patagonia’s marketing ploy is to sell a lifestyle."
Well WTF you think? They're a commercial business, that's what they do, they sell stuff.
Do you really believe that people are morons who believe everything that's put out by advertisement? I think you must?
Anyways ..... the Patagonia ambassadors are human walking advertising billboards. The get paid to promote.
Me .... I'd rather sit in a cornfield in Kansas and eat corn ...
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:52pm PT
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OII, I would be interested in hearing more, as in some thing substantial. So far it has been all hat and no horse.
As for what Patagonia is selling, I have been a dirt bag climber for 30 years. I was wearing their clothes well before it was Patguccui. The Patagonia marketing is a paradox. Yeah, they like to high light hard core folks living the dirt bag dream, but guess who is those buying the vast majority of their stuff? The granola want to be yuppies that couldn't pull their butt out of a garbage can if was turned upside down. If you do not believe me walk into one of their stores in San Francisco.
Now my only gripe is the term "athletes". Seemed that everybody is now an athlete. Athlete my azz. Seems they need that term to be respectable. Give me a break.
Oh yeah, seems like years ago Chouinard said something to affect - about wanting expeditions being paid for to get a job.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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Hey Werner - if you've ever spent time in Kansas - you might want to rethink that last plan of yours.
:)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 26, 2008 - 10:55pm PT
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OII = first time poster, at least under that name and e-mail = troll. Either that, or sour grapes.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:15pm PT
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Who knows how they figure to portray themselves? Potter used to be an ambassador but you'd only seem him wearing some ragged jeans around.
I don't know anybody who buys stuff like Patagonia based on who they pay to climb.
Peace
Karl
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:23pm PT
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Patty is always used for a troll. Remember that fellow with an inside skinny that posted up when they fired all the Patch ambassadors? Twas worth a chuckle.
My 20 year old capilene speaks volumes of a lifestyle via its stench after it's been worn for a day of humping in the back country. Some good stinky sh!t, that capilene.
In Argentina they laugh at you when you wear clothes with the Patagonia label because Patagonia is mostly a wind-scoured sh!thole to the average porteño.
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apogee
climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:31pm PT
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OII-
I just returned from working a weekend event that benefits a Joshua Tree NP climber advocacy group, the Friends of Joshua Tree- this yearly event (ClimbSmart) has been supported by several vendors over the years, including Patagonia, Black Diamond, Adventure 16, and guide services (volunteering their time and instruction) to benefit this worthy cause. For the past several years, Patagonia has sent one or more of their 'ambassadors' to help support & deliver the event, by doing a slideshow or multimedia presentation, and assisting with the instruction of many of the climber's clinics that are provided over the weekend.
Brittany was present for two of the last 3 events, and Majka was present this past weekend. Having personally spent time with both of them, I can attest to their clear commitment to the business principles that Patagonia strives towards. Majka's slideshow on her recent Ethiopia adventure juxtaposed climbing and adventure with important (and under-appreciated) social and geo-political issues that was well-received by all in attendance, in a highly engaging delivery from an obviously impassioned person.
It is understandable to be skeptical about a company's motives when it comes to their own promotion, and if one is so inclined, I'm sure you could find hypocrisies in Patagonia's strategies. In my experience, and for my money, I can easily accept some of the areas where Patagonia might not achieve these highest ideals, given what I know and have seen of Patagonia's efforts to walk their talk. I just wish there were far more companies that made similar efforts.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:41pm PT
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Nice troll. Normally I try not to feed them, but for Brittany, I first met her at Smith probably 13 or 14 years ago. She was already climbing pretty strongly at that point, so I don't think you'd find too many with knowledge of the US climbing scene that would question her experience or capability.
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east side underground
Trad climber
crowley ca
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:50pm PT
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patagonia, one of the few companies in the surf industry creating green surf products (boards&wetsuits)in a very non-green industry. Also heard one of the malloy bros( sponsered patagonia surfer)climbed the NA -- nice lifestyle
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Spencer Adkisson
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:54pm PT
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Is there some unwritten rule that states that sponsored atheletes, specifically climbers, are required to publish an extensive biography that details all of their accomplishments and credentials in the climbing arena so that you will accept them as worthy of their position?
What's that all about?
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2008 - 11:55pm PT
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To name a few of my concerns:
1) In Burhardt’s presentation she said that she was a journalist with the motivation of going to Ethiopia (for 3 months) to research a rare coffee bean. Once she arrives in Ethiopia, she promptly changes her plans and decides to write a book about another topic—exposing the world to the real Ethiopia beyond famine, improving their image as a country, and also to tell about climbing some FAs (the two topics seemed slammed together). She never mentioned whom she worked for as a journalist, but I find it odd, that she could just switch focus, mid-stay, and start writing a climbing/political piece. Petzl states that they sponsored her book. Once there she was surprised by the vertical relief in Ethiopia, and just knew there would be some things to climb, so she decided to organize a team to climb some FA’s during the last 3 weeks of her stay. She called folks from the U.S. and Britain (I guess they just dropped their jobs), and hired a photographer (I guess he was just ready). Oh, and within the 3 months, before the climbing trip, she had shoulder surgery in the U.S. and then returned to continue writing the book about being in the country and getting ready to climb FAs. And, that during an FA, they were being robbed by kids, so she ended up at the jailhouse (for 10 days, I think) trying to work out the details, and help these kids out of jail. She did this while the team pressed on with the FAs. It’s a fanciful story, no doubt, the audience was captivated, impressed…yes, she is a very good speaker, and creative writer. My question is, which came first, the idea for climbing in Ethiopia, or true journalistic endeavor that switched to an impromptu adventure climbing piece.
2) Patagonia’s website states:
“She was a founding member of Climb Against the Odds (at age 21) a group of breast cancer survivors and women without cancer who climbed Denali to raise money and awareness for the disease.”
Princeton Weekly Bulletin reports:
“A member of this past June's Climb Against the Odds sponsored by the Breast Cancer Fund of San Francisco, Burhardt participated in an assault on Alaska's 20,320 ft. Mt. McKinley -- known to indigenous peoples as Denali, "the Great One." She climbed with four other Princeton women, now alumnae, as well as a number of breast cancer survivors. They made it to the final staging area at 16,500 feet, only to be turned back by bad weather.
Nonclimbers ask if she was disappointed by the "failure" to reach the summit. "If you're a mountaineer, it happens," Burhardt observes.”
Details, I know.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:20am PT
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Thirty years ago I learned of the Afar Triangle in Ethiopia. As I remember it there are apparently 5000 foot faces that run about 125F in the shade. I could not get any of the Carderock climbers interested even though the weather is quite similar to that found at Carderock. We knew that the first European to make it all the way across that region without losing his ears did it in 1936. But this, of course, is not the reason we failed to go there.
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Flashlight
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:23am PT
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Didn't this same guy start a similar thread a while back?
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apogee
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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OII-
You obviously have an axe to grind with Majka, Brittany, &/or Patagonia. Please have the integrity to be completely forthcoming about your motivations, or just drop it.
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jfs
Trad climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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OII - lol.
Dude, the chip on your shoulder isn't very becoming. Chill out.
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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I have always been motivated to remind people of the powerful tactics of marketing. Don’t think that your climbing forum is unique to this. What’s strange to me, is that no matter the forum, everyone adamantly states that marketing doesn’t work on them. (or anyone they know). So, if it isn’t effective, why do the corporations continue to employ it? Viral marketing, yes, Patagonia is as guilty as the next.
They create “authenticity” and you buy it!
I, on the other hand, fight to keep it real, it's nothing personal toward the ambassadors, it's a fight against memes.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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Insider
You're on the wrong battlefield.
The enemy is you.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:26am PT
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Dude, have you never traveled? Perhaps you just can't imagine someone being profoundly moved by their experience in a place such as Ethiopia. I went to Mexico to help build an Orphanage. I was only going to stay a week, as I had a good paying job at the time and that was all the time off I could get. I ended up quitting my job and staying for 3 months to help finish it. That is how much I was moved by the experience.
People make up all kinds of reasons to do things, then change with the experience. If you don't know this, then you haven't lived that much. Perhaps you need to get out from behind the counter.
Hmmm. lets see. write a book about a rare coffee bean. Well.. shoot, if someone will pay me to go, then okay. but boring. Get there, see heavy duty real life sh#t happening before your eyes plus see world class mountains that no one has climbed. Yeah.. yer right. I see your point. Why give up the book about a "rare" coffee been to write about that other stuff. shucks. The coffee bean would be WAAAAAAY more interesting.
Come on dude.
Ya gotta be a troll. Though I applaud you for having the courage to come back and face the music. But please try to see that people aren't all the same. Some plod along and accomplish great things, others go zing zang boom and also accomplish great things. Thats just the way that it is, and aint it great. Personally I am glad that there are whiz bangs out there like Majka. Maybe thats why Patagonia hired her. Cause she aint a stick in the mud.
Plus maybe they hired her because she can inspired people to drop what they are doing and go on great adventures. If she can inspire them to do that, then perhaps she can inspire them to do other things, such as buy product. Wow.. what a thought.
And perhaps this is a brilliant way to push some of us to take a look at her book. Kudos if that was your intention.
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adam d
climber
CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:41am PT
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so OII,
your "allegation" is that she used a journalistic trip to Ethopia to do FA's?
nope...doesn't sound like a quality climber to me.
is she a journalism or climbing ambassador for Pataguch?
be serious!
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:42am PT
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We are a race of consumers. Everyone who buys a Patagucci product will buy something. And companies like Patagonia figure that, it someone is going to buy something, that thing might as well be from thier company.
When you consider the ethical and environmental stances taken by Patagonia, and similar companies, shouldn't we all be more comfortable with people buying their stuff, instead of generic, lesser quality stuff from companies who don't take such active measures to mitigate the problems of production?
And BTW, all of those climbers listed as their ambasadors are really, actually BAD AS$ climbers - they deserve it. How can you wish them ill? It is like slagging your favorite band because they finally got a hit song on the radio after years of struggling. Don't they DESERVE some recognition and payback for all thier hard work? You can bet that those in most other professions would not work so hard for no financial return. If a climber who has been working hard at it for a long time can finally get paid a bit for it, then good for them!
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:54am PT
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I wuz just readin' through CLIMBING mag #109, August 1988, the one with Jim Sandford busting out DOA at the Pet Wall on the cover. A mag from before my time, full of Lycra, Edlinger, Snowbird, 5.12s as newsworthy, complaints about the British grading system (so what else is new), Messner still climbing, and other 80s stuff.
Anyways in the letters section, some guy is taking Mark Twight (or was he "Marc" at the time?) to task for suggesting that "corporate sponsorship is the key to raising the standards of American alpine climbing".
The letter writer rags on Mark's suggestion, telling him to go after Bud Light if he wants sponsors, or move to France, or get a job - and asks "who really cares if Joe Blow used a particular pack on Everest?"
The letter writer's name?
Yvon Chouinard.
I LOL'd.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:01am PT
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Patagonia's ambassador program was really Ridgeway's thing.
Yvon didn't want it.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Lothlórien
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:04am PT
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> I have always been motivated to remind people of the powerful tactics of
> marketing. Don’t think that your climbing forum is unique to this. What’s
> strange to me, is that no matter the forum, everyone adamantly states that
> marketing doesn’t work on them. (or anyone they know). So, if it isn’t
> effective, why do the corporations continue to employ it? Viral marketing,
> yes, Patagonia is as guilty as the next.
Well golly gee gosh! I guess we're all a bunch o' moe-rons and you are here to enlighten us! Thanks for letting us in on the big secret. How could we have been so clueless?
> They create “authenticity” and you buy it!
>
> I, on the other hand, fight to keep it real, it's nothing personal toward the
> ambassadors, it's a fight against memes.
And you are the one true purveyor of "authenticity" then. Oh lord, we have been Perceval lost in the forest and now you have shown us the path to enlightenment! But you are taking on a pose and marketing it too.
Werner said it best... take a look in the mirror if you dare see what might lie within. I really don't know, but at some level, you do.
Nice troll! OK, back to being inspired by Ouch!
Peace,
Fletch
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 08:19am PT
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outdoor industry insider, do you still work for Patagonia?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:28am PT
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Hey O.I.I.,
In your "fight to keep it real", do your part to keep it real and identify yourself and your grudge. What's up? If you're seeking help, we can only do so if we know your motivations.
The list of Patagonia ambassadors is made up of honorable and excellent climbers of all types. I've known some of them for 35 years (Wilford) and have climbed with most of them at one time or another. Every one of them is the real deal with serious accomplishments under their belts. I can't think of a better group to epitomize the term "Ambassador".
Mal
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Jim E
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:07am PT
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O.I.I.,
I think I understand what you're saying. I'm somewhat of an insider myself. In the past I've gotten a little annoyed and frustrated with the number of posers who claim to be sponsored or are sponsored seemingly unjustifiably.
I know of some of the people you've mentioned, some I've met, and some I know. I wouldn't characterize most of them as posers but there are certainly others out there that are.
My advice, for what it's worth, is let it go. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the companies do to market themselves or what certain individuals do to sell themselves to those companies or the public. If they are selling a lifestyle so be it. I live my own and don't really pay attention to the attention seekers.
I've never been one for hero worship and have never bought a single piece of climbing gear or clothing, or pretty much anything, based on what so and so is using in an ad. I know it's just marketing hype and fluff.
Let it go. Enjoy your own experiences. Share them with your friends. Enjoy your friends stories. Maybe look to those you respect for inspiration.
I really hate it when people say "climb for yourself". It seems disingenuous and cliché. There is some truth to it, though.
In the Grand Scheme it doesn't matter.
Let it go.
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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It's funny...I've never doubted any claims or motivations of Wilford and most other accomplished ambassadors of Patagonia. It's the new up and coming ambassadors...their stories and personalities seem contrived from the start. Their expeditions seem contrived from the start. They are characters written into the company's image.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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What Jim Says. We all hate being manipulated but then we are anyway. Some consolation is found in the self-belief that each of us are above the fray. As we walk away in our Nike shoes and Tommy Hilfiger pants. It's as stupid as the runway game and ready wear Paris shows, but there it is anyway, like a large elephant in a small room.
Then you got guys like the 2 Grahams (Gramici), and Graham (Cilogear), who strive to make great stuff people want to buy for superior utilitarian purposes, so they tell their friends about it and they can sell more, without having to directly sell YOU.
PS, wheres the new Big Wally Cilogear pack Graham 1?
PSS, wheres the synthetic pants other Graham?
(internet buzzzzzz starting)
__
PS, I find it interesting that the "authentic marketing strategy link you provide lists REI as "authentic". "REI, promoting its outdoor gear by building a popular climbing wall and walking trail near its Seattle store."
Whats more authentic than using real climbers (and all Patagonias are real)?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:45am PT
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O.I.I., further to your worries about your heroes being less than truthful. I've known Brittany (BAG) for at least 15 years and have watched her turn into a really solid rock climber who I would trust in any situation and now has to hang the rope for me all the time. She can also drink me under the table in a pinch and has the sometimes disturbing knack for telling it like it is... always. She can have a spot at the end of my rope any time and is a terrific ambassador for Patagonia. She's the real deal and is probably more like the average Betty-the-Climber than most of the other ambassadors. I'm sure that if you got to hang out with her you'd become a fan.
I've only know Majka for a few years but she's the real deal too. Before writing her book, going on tour and getting famous she was a Mountain Guide for years and has left an impressive track record of trad ascents in the area. She an AMGA Certified Rock Guide and can drag my ass around the mountains anytime. As for changing the reason for her trip to Ethiopa after her first visit, I guess you've never had to recalibrate your worldview after running into something totally unexpected and new. I'm sorry for you if that's the case. It's challenging, refreshing and character building. Give it a try.
Peace,
Mal
Oops-Full Disclosure Time: We sponsor Majka with some gear and I've bought beer for Brittany as well as drank some of hers.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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A hundred years ago we saw a climbing short made by someone we knew affectionately as "Ghastly Rubberface". It had these shots of completely unprotected climbing on an overhanging arete, seen in profile. It was stomach churning. Then the frame was filled by a close up of the edge of a rock. A huge hand came around from the other side and the size of a crack was gauged using one finger. A pin came around, was put into the crack and was driven.
Then a huge boot came around and planted itself squarely on top of the pin.
We are just having fun here, kids.
Yvon's catalog with all those photographs give me heartburn, but that's just me. The truth? If there is a photograph you know there were top ropes close to hand.
One of the hardest tasks we all have is that of figuring out who our real friends are. It is not easy. From all that I have seen when something really important has to be done, Yvon will be there with his shirt off.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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OII - "It's the new up and coming ambassadors...their stories and personalities seem contrived from the start."
This is no different for every expedition seeking sponsorship in one form or another. Somehow they have to make themselves different from everyone else so someone will pay for their expedition. I gave friends crap cause they did the first "carbon neutral" climb on Denali. But guess what it worked - they got all kinds of deals.
So all these posers out there are just trying to figure out how to make their name for a some sort of first no matter how contrived. You know like the first all nude snowboard circumnavigation of the south pole while singing When the Saints go Marching.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
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Jumping ahead from 80's era Climbing to the modern issues of Climbing, i see Majka has written a couple columns for Climbing Mag on the climbing/dating scene.
Maybe OII is either a disgruntled ex or more likely, a disgruntled rejection? OII did you make it to first base or were you dropped at the coffee date stage? Or did you just lech over her picture in the mag?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:47pm PT
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Hmmm... And here all this time I thought their marketing ploy was simply to make fashionable, urban wear, along with a few functional items, and charge three times as much as the other companies. Who'da thunk it?
Just curious - has the OP looked up the definition of marketing?
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:08pm PT
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the argument is off the true point, true point being that we are all pretty much sick to death of America's corporate " religion" with its prophets and proselytizers. Sick of it I tell you, I don't care who they are, I'd love to see a world free of advertising, public relations, and spin.
just go climbing
admire good climbing qualities in anyone who has them.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
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Let's cut to the chase. We are all jealous of people who get paid to climb with out having to guide.
As I type this out at work, I know I'd sure like to be elected to an ambassador for Patagonia. It would be a good story too. Guy working at computer is freed by corporate sponsorship, his climbing improves dramatically with time to actually climb, train and go places. We could watch my improvement from working slob into full time athlete.
I'm thinking this marketing strategy has legs. Yvon? Anyone? Please?
Tom
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
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I would suggest we all remember the grass on the other side of the fence is always greener. As the economy contracts representatives generally will be expected to deliver more results and to obey instructions even while suspecting a layoff may be in store. Then the idea of taking a short job followed by having untrammeled freedom will sound pretty darn good.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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Jealous…
Cut to the chase, .......Yes Tom Woods!!!
You win the contest AND the free car...
(okay maybe the car needs some work, but it is a real cream puff and purrs like a kitten)
I am mad as hell & I’m just not going to take it anymore!!!
Darn tootin’ right I’m jealous.
Lemme see now…
 Majka is an accomplished guide.
I was a guide for 10 years; ...but, that was on the silky smooth safe Yosemite granite.
For years, she’s done daily battle with clients and loose rock in Rocky Mountain National Park.
I burned out, while she, in contrast ...stuck with it…
Majka has established herself as an expert in her field,
By routinely getting published in the mags, with "how to" stuff, and funny stuff, and stuff.
Heck, I can write!!!, ...but I don’t, because I don’t have much to say…shoot. And I did establish myself as an expert in the field, but mostly spearheading happy hours in Tuolumne Meadows, after-hours.
But wait, I can be funny…*but that’s not intentional*..., rats again.
Majka gets sponsored.
I could get a sponsor too …if I’d only get into AA.
Yup, jealous again.
-Roy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 27, 2008 - 05:53pm PT
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Really, the only jealousy I saw was in the OP's thread.
I kinda look at the whole thing like I do with Bill Gates and Micr$oft (being that I work in the IT industry) - I really despise a lot of his business practices, but can kinda see myself doing some of the same things if I were in his position. Yeah, it'd be kinda cool to be the richest guy in the world for a decade or two.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 05:58pm PT
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Does it really matter whether someone is hardcore if they make clothes you like?
I have my issues with Patagonia after the Pine Mountain Pulldown debacle, and it's a damn good story that would make you think twice about supporting them, but this particular issue seems kind of weak.
I'd definitely say that they are no friend to the average climber.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2008 - 07:02pm PT
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*BUMP*
And another thing...um...uh...ferfuksakes I am so piss't about all of this.
And also, how many posts so far ...70.......and all text?
Can we please somebody get some pictures up???
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2008 - 07:10pm PT
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I mean, really,
When it comes to goofing off, sometimes I feel like I have to do EVERYTHING.
'wish I could pull off the choker thing AND wear a stetson.
from:
http://www.majkaburhardt.com/about-majka/
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 08:59pm PT
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Sorry Stich: nope. You have to be doing 5.9 or better.. OUTSIDE of the gym:-). Yeah, the red tape route doesn't count.
Sad.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 27, 2008 - 09:06pm PT
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hahahahahahahahahahahah!
Poor Stichy-pooo.
Somebody call the Wahbulance!!!
(I seen him do the blue tape 5.7 wide route...held .....I mean, BELAYED him on it)
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:23pm PT
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this could explain Cedar Wright. . .
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:49pm PT
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You were surprised that Majka had journalism connections? After writing for Climbing mag for years?
There are companies with sub-standard sponsored "athletes." Patagucci isn't one of them.
My only problem with Patagonia is that they seem to be moving toward stylish hipster city clothes and not towards gear.
What do they have, like one pair of climbing pants/shorts available now?
But you can get that polo or cashmere sweater.
Sheesh.
TC
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:52pm PT
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You gotta be f*#king kidding me. This stupidity is still going on after 70 something posts?
Jesus you people are bored.
Long live Ouch!
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2008 - 11:18pm PT
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Besides Majka stating that she didn't summit Denali, yet Patagonia and other sites claim she did...remember--she a journalist (self-proclaimed) but doesn't bother to fix this inaccuracy.
well let's see, for some more concerns:
states in her presentation "I thought Ethiopia was flat until I arrived there!" Really? An international climbing guide, and you didn't check this out before hand? Really? (Of course she knew there was climbing potential, her sponsors had the story written before she even left...she's just a character in their story). They probably just thought for marketing purposes it sounds more like the climber lifestyle to "just go for the rock, chase the FAs" over the original plan of writing about coffee beans.
states in her presentation "Only 5 other people have even climbed in Ethiopia, and one of them is in this room!" Really? Wilford climbed there too? Hey, wait, don't you two share the same sponsor? Hmm.
states in her presentation "I was at the jail house for 10 days trying to free the kid robbers while my team continued on with the FAs" and has a picture to prove it, and she's in the picture. Who took the picture? The photographer that was supposed to film the FAs? Why would he take pictures of you in a jailhouse, over those proud sends? Oh, that's right, you need to write an adventure story, that's what your sponsors need you to do.
Whole "vertical ethiopia" sounds contrived, best recast it as "exaggerated ethiopia"
How long has Majka been a fictional writer for Climbing magazine? I guess she broke out of the fictional writing and launched into her nonfictional work.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:03am PT
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Inside-outside that original "Tin Shed" now that's my kinda place.
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2008 - 12:25am PT
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Wbraun,
Good one, seriously, that's good writing!
Nevertheless, it takes little effort on my part to hash out a discussion.
If one is promoting oneself as a climbing expedition leader, international climber, and journalist, specifically, a nonfiction writer...then I expect just that, shouldn't everyone? More importantly, to me, if someone is appearing altruist, and a leader in women's issue, as Majka is branding herself with her promotion of her book, then she should reveal her sponsors and their hand in the "wild, spur of the momemt, self-discovery" adventure that she had.
I know that the Gen-Y generation needs heroes, and in general, our society, but let the heroes' unrecognized deeds get recognized...not the other way around.
As for Brittany Griffith, she's branding herself well as the climbing party girl. Kate is the thoughtful, balanced one, and Majka is the one with political sensibility. They are flavors, and the consumer picks the one they can identify with, then "buy on!"
Oh, and for the record, I'm just telling it like it is, ya know, like Brittany does! ; )
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Indoor Industry Outsider
Social climber
Your Starbuck's Parking Lot
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:37am PT
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I used to have idols, now I'm just idle.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:39am PT
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Thats it!!!! The new Spice Girls, I think Patagonia should sponsor me to make a Calendar. DF
Still doesnt explain Cedar Wright.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:55am PT
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I saw both Kate's and Majka's slideshows this last weekend.......(although only part of Kate's and most all of Majka's).....both were excellent, inspirational, and very cool for me. Sure, they are still young, and haven't had time to go on as many climbing adventures as the old dudes, but still climbing is climbing. Maybe they can make some more $ with this, go on more trips, and keep the ball rolling and live the life.......give them credit for what they have done so far, slack for being young and motivated, and a big push of encouragement for the future. Some day the stork may drop a baby or three off at their doorsteps, and then they can REALLY go for the mega-big adventures! (It happened to me, and so it can happen to anyone!).....Ride the wave, girls, do the dude, and grab that tiger by the tail (or the Bull by the balls.....)......hope you get to have as many adventures and live to tell the tale, as old salty seadog Mark Wilford...........(He's got a 2 year old and a 4 year old now;...different game ........) Climb on, lasses....
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Lothlórien
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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Tarbuster and Tami to the rescue! Thanks for lightening this up in your own beloved unique ways, guys!
> I know that the Gen-Y generation needs heroes
Ah, here's a clue to all this grumpiness. Gen-Y (which are now known as Millennials if I'm not mistaken) can really piss off all those cranky, cynical Gen-X-ers who are known for their trademark cynicism and crankiness. :-) I'm one myself, so I should know. But I'm in a Gen-X 12-step program.
Sounds like a beef with these dang, texting, IM'ing Millennials.
You know, the only really cool stuff is the Really Obscure Esoteric Things™ (ROETs) me and my brooding pals are into. Of course, the entire world should appreciate and devote itself to my ROETs and when they do, then those things will totally be lame and suck because the world likes them. :-)
This thread could really use Ouch! right now... Batso chiming in would be welcomed. Time for a seance?
Of course, I'm just a fool and part-time madman raving on a Monday night.
Fletch
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outdoor industry insider
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2008 - 01:24am PT
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Uh, Thanks Todd, but I'd rather not give credit (via credit card nor cash) to fund their climbing, I use that money for myself. They can push the envelope first, then I might extend a helping hand, but certainly not the other way around.
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apogee
climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:07am PT
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OII- Cough it up. What's your beef with Majka? Did she dump you, or did she get the job you wanted, or what? If you can't be honest about it, then STFU and delete this thread. It's embarassing.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Lothlórien
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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There's more to this story, alright....
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:20am PT
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hey y'all, this is about a career in PUBLIC RELATIONS not a climbing career. This is what the corporation expects of these people, not to BE a climber or a journalist but to PRESENT the COMPANY as an image. This is the job, not climbing or any other endeavor. Do not be misled. Spin is it.
Expect nothing else of these people but to present as good public relations "celebrities" like the people who present the news. They are supposed to make you feel all goodie and then flash the company name so you associate the goodie feeling with the brand name.
Believe me, this is all that job is about. Don't be jealous. It's like being jealous or enamored by a car salesman.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:20am PT
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apogee
Such a ragweed approach. Patience is a virtue.
A good troll will wait for the proper catalyst to revel their conclusions.
If the audience is not up to the proper level then the good troll will just leave, and leave all wondering.
Not that you care? But you do since you're angry ......
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Decko
Trad climber
Colorado
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Oct 28, 2008 - 09:00am PT
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I worked with Majka for 3 years......you have no idea what your talking about, nor do you know anything about her, you are very wrong and very off track.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Oct 28, 2008 - 10:34am PT
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The Werner said "ragweed" hahahahahahaha
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal Hell
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Oct 28, 2008 - 11:14am PT
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LuckyPink you're right on!!!! Enamored by a car salesman, haha! Good one...!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 28, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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"...hey y'all, this is about a career in PUBLIC RELATIONS not a climbing career. This is what the corporation expects of these people, not to BE a climber or a journalist but to PRESENT the COMPANY as an image. This is the job, not climbing or any other endeavor. Do not be misled. Spin is it.
Expect nothing else of these people but to present as good public relations "celebrities" like the people who present the news..."
There is a certain truth to this. Naturally, these folks will try to choose projects the inspire both themselves and those who read about them. These ambassadors meet with the company here and there (been to Yosemite a few times) and they actually confer on design, needs and whatnot feedback on the company stuff.
So somebody like Brittany is a respectable, not elite, climber, cute, and fashion awareness is a big part of the business. She'll have to adjust her life and goals in orientation to her job.
When you give people money to climb and the gear to climb, even the decision to do so with dirtbags, rebels, the best or the most experienced, it's all about company best-interests. It's not a charity trying to save endangered climbers. To the extent that any profit making corporation IS a charity, Patagonia has a record to match the best.
But all that costs money which gets passed to the consumer and I'm too much of a dirtbag to have much besides a dragonfly shell in my climbing pack.
peace
Karl
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 28, 2008 - 01:37pm PT
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Anybody remember this one?
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Newsflash:
Company in World's Richest Country Appeals to 'Wants', Not Just 'Needs'
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| Messages 1 - 93 of total 93 in this topic |
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