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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
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I recall reading a report a few years ago about a solo climber on El Cap who took a short fall and his Gri Gri broke the carabiner to which it was attached. he tool a fall the remaining rope length and was caught by being tied in to the end of the rope. it was someone who seemed well-known around the internet. Does anyone else remember that story?
Dave
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
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Yeah, British guy speed climbing Eagles Way...injured and had to be rescued. NPS tried to charge him for the rescue because he didn't have bivi gear or something of that sort...
Read he back cleaned a bunch then ripped some heads and landed directly on the belay anchor. Locker was that DMM Belaymaster thing with the plastic piece to prevent cross-loading.
I use a fatty steel locker now.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 29, 2008 - 08:28pm PT
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Sounds like a long range screamer(likely with lots of screaming too LOL)
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Jul 29, 2008 - 10:05pm PT
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Read the link about the Brit. Thanks for the info Del Cross, as when someone asks why I prefer my soloist to other systems that is the key reason. It is tied to me in a way that is about as infalable as tieing into the end of the cord. All the other systems can be loaded wrong at the atachment during a fall. Not saying I haven't used the others, just feel a lot better with the solist, with a clove or eight tied down rope a ways to stop a head first, non lockup fall.
Bob
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 29, 2008 - 10:11pm PT
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No, I don't belive it his a joke. I suspect he has a rack of non-locking biners around the side of his harness waistbelt with the gates positioned down and out on to which the loops of rope are attached.
Back in '75 I was in Boulder alone for the first time and while I could get partners from the board at Boulder Mountaineering, they'd all back out when they found out I was from So. Ill. One day while waiting at the store to be blown off yet again I got to reading, or rather misreading, Doug Scott's 'Big Wall' book and in my altered state completely misinterpreted his aid soloing drawings. After a day of highly entertaining hilarity up on the low roof at Castle Rock I finally morphed whatever was in the book into a system I thought would work for free climbing.
The next day I went to Eldo and roped soloed the Bastille Crack and was launched with it. What 'it' had morphed into was coil half the rope and put it over one shoulder and then with the other half of the rope tying a figure-8 ever thirty feet and hanging those on, you guessed it, a bunch of biners down and out on my [right] harness waistbelt (sawmi). I'd build an anchor and clip the end of the rope into it and climb half a rope length, dropping knots off my harness whenever I had to, clipped the rope normally, and then set an anchor whenever I got to the mid-mark, rapping on the coiled half of the line.
I did that for several decades and even had Metolius make me a harness with nine full-strength loops around the entire right side of it just for roped soloing. Worked great until grigris came along and my wise and sage friend Bud Smith said, "cut that sh#t out, throw the rope in a small backpack, and just use a grigri," which I immediately did. And I did that until the Edelrid Eddy came along which I've been using ever since. I have to say I don't miss all the rope loops hanging from me when I'm climbing.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Social climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jul 29, 2008 - 11:21pm PT
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Thanks for that link Del Cross.
What an amazing story and analysis.
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Double D
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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Ok, I’m just curious. I used to solo aid with a clove hitch. No problems since both hands are free when standing in stirrups. Recently my main climbing partner moved and let’s just say it takes about 4-6 partners to replace him since most of our climbing when it’s hot has to be before 9:30am (and I have to work for a living!) and most partners aren't willing to be at the crag as it's getting light.
So I though it would be an interesting idea to start learning how to roped solo on free routes. My first day out I chose a sport route that was normally an easy warm up for me and used a clove hitch. Not so good! I pulled it off but had major knots in my arms from hanging so long.
Next day I borrowed a Gri-gri on the same route. It took a while to get the feeding thing going but it worked quite well to yard up the loose end of the rope, hold it in my teeth while I feed the slack through the device, then clip the next piece. It’s sort of like what you do when you are clipping something way over your head, but you end up doing it twice which is not so bad. Since this route is overhanging, there’s no problem with rope management. I worked with a system of back up knots but soon just took my chances with just one back up knot estimated to be just past the end of the route. Now if I fell towards the lower part of the route and my device failed, I’d be screwed but up past the 2/3rds mark it would work. In the end, this seems way safer on routes that are slightly below my ability as I am confident that I have better chances of actually climbing it free rather than pumping out trying to undo numerous knots. I was successful in using a couple of locking biners with pre-placed clove hitches which release fast, but still the time and effort spent un-hitching them seemed more dangerous than climbing through in my opinion (and again, I’m climbing several grades below my abilities).
The one thing about a grigri I don’t like is that it’s rigged to a biner which could shear (as the El Cap story above). I will start using a steel biner but I also thought about using a small loop of ultra-strong webbing like spectra to loop it through the grigri then clip it into the locking biner. This seems like it would be way more flexible and couldn’t shear. Any one tried this or have thoughts?
So after feeling confident on steep rock, I started thinking about the lower angle stuff with tons of dinner plates that we have in this area. It’s a rope-handling nightmare. So I tied into the far end, flaked it in a pack and away I went. The climbing was way easy, to the extent that an unroped solo would not be a big deal but loops from tie in knots would be disastrous. Although this worked out well, stuffing the rope back in my pack was tedious and took too much time. I’ve notice there are several brands of “rope bucket” packs out there and seem to address the issue of holding the top open or simply unfolding like a rope tarp. Anyone have a recommendation? My concern about the tarp types is what to do on a hanging belay? Which ones load the quickest? I do like the idea of having the rope with me on climbs where likelihood of a loop getting stuck below you is real high. I've actually thought about buying a Rubermaid type trash can, and cutting out the bottom and sticking it into my pack to hold it open. I guess that's the Southern engineer in me! (-;
Your experiences and suggestions are much appreciated!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Sep 28, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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i hang the entire rope on the left side of my harness, clove-hitched to oval biners in loops of slack. i've been up many many pitches up to .10 on steep rock and low angle, featured rock, and i've only had my system catch constrictions maybe 5 times. when it does catch, it usually just requires a short down climb and flick of the rope to free the stuck loop.
management of the system and constant eyeing is key. when i get lazy on this, my system gives me grief. when i watch it all closely, it goes smooth.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 28, 2008 - 01:43am PT
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I've taken two falls where my backup knot would not have saved me before arriving at biff city, but I still use one.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 10:30am PT
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I know a guy who took a big whipper using a Grigri. The rope caught under the handle and prevented the cam from engaging. He got some nasty rope burn on his arm and was stopped by the backup. I'm not sure if he was using the solo mod of his Grigri at that time, but he certainly modded after that.
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Sep 28, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
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"I will start using a steel biner but I also thought about using a small loop of ultra-strong webbing like spectra to loop it through the grigri then clip it into the locking biner. This seems like it would be way more flexible and couldn’t shear. Any one tried this or have thoughts?"
Please do not even consider doing the above. The radius of the hole end of your gri was never intended to have soft goods in it. I have nothing more than common sense to back this up but if you exert anything more than a very slight fall the cord/webbing, no matter what kind of fiber,or shape, will have such a sharp load my guess is it will cut. Probably be the last pop you will ever hear.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 28, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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You could use a double loop prussik for a backup.
It slides around a lot better than a standard three loop, but you have to stop your self before it melts.
They will slide into a slow 'self destructo" mode, but you should have your stuffing together by then.
Sometimes they actually hold as good as a triple, sometimes knott.
So that "other brand" belay device has the handle that locks the rope if you press it all the way, this was supposed to be for panic stricken belay people pushing the lever all the way to stop the guy.
So I see another reason, if the rope holds it open, it will arrest, preventing the above mentioned incident?
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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Hey could anyone post a photo of your modified grigri. Had a question about it, need to see a photo of it to answer my questions.
thanks
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:37am PT
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hey there toleman_paul.. say, thanks for the fill-in about why the ropes are always tied... i too, had always wondered why this was such a safe-guard that seemed to be "found undone" so many times... i had always wondered why the folks had not tied the knott...
hey there piton ron... say, very good solid advice...
as to your quote:
"I think it is very important to be practiced and adept at numerous self-belay techniques before embarking on a major climb,.......... EVEN WITH A PARTNER!! "
*say, folks do this before "putting on a show" (on stage, etc)... so why not, before putting ones life on the line, as well...
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:45am PT
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my backup know (edit... knot) system has not been tested, but it has been scrutinized by its user..me.
i realize that the gear loops are not full strength. even if the gear loop fails, then a clove hitch with a biner through will wedge on the stop side of the silent partner, hence stopping the release of slack... whallaa... "back-up knot". i guess the two metals colliding could cause impact damage, but probably not since it will be a gradual application of force.
hell, i got bigger things aiming at my venerability than the above mentioned 'what-if'.
does anyone use a backup know system?? funny typo.
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DaveT.
Big Wall climber
southeast face portaledge
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
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This is such a sketchy thread! There is so much bad info here, someone might get hurt. the norweigen guy's set up, that is such a cluster- and dangerous! Gonna break those two belay biners due to extreme crossloading in a fall, and then rip the gear loops off his harness before he hits the ground. And what a pain to set up for every pitch, time consuming and sketchy!
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Wallwombat
Trad climber
Australia
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In my experience the safest way to connect a grigri to your harness for roped soloing, is with a steel D shaped Maillion. These can handle accidental cross loading.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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So, if you don't attach the loose end of the rope to your harness (several loops, etc) how is the best to manage the rope.
Also if you use a light pack, what are some good models? Do you tie knots in the rope as a backup.
Dave T. What system do you use?
Thanks.
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Double D
climber
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John Mac... I use a grigri with a big ole steel biner, or sometimes a locking rig with that cross bar. I do back up with 2-3 knotts on very simple clove hitches attached to locking biners that are attached to small spectra slings looped around my harness. Because of the terrain here that has lots of flakes for the loops to get snagged upon, I generally use a backpack that is a rope-bag. After getting frustrated with a floppy pack for a rope bag I took standard plastic trash can (office sized)cut off the top and bottom, then slit one side top to bottom and stuffed this inside of my pack to keep it stiff and open. The cool thing about this southern-engineered rig is that you can pack all sorts of gear in it and not have to pay attention to what might jab you in the back because the plastic liner keeps things at bay. I wish I'd discovered this trick long ago.
On steeper stuff where it's easy to controll the loops I don't climb with the pack, just let them hang and occasionally give them a flick if they are threatening to get caught.
As mentioned several times in this thread, the key to roped soloing is to practice your system and get it wired.
Happy climbing!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Waiting for Dave T. here....
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