Rope-soloing / backup knot save?

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Gunkie

climber

East Coast US

Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 18, 2008 - 04:14pm PT

Has anyone else been saved by their backup knot while rope-soloing?

The only time it happened to me was while playing round with my Silent Partner after I first got it. I was leading a steep, but easy route in the Gunks. I decided to 'jump off' the climb to test the rig. So I find a slightly overhanging section, bomb in a bunch of gear, tie my backup knot with about 20 feet down, and ... jump.

Ended up being caught on the backup knot. What happened? A wired nut from my rack got into the running clove hitch. The clove hitch never sinched up. However, I do think I slowed down quite a bit before hitting the backup knot. I'm thinking I would have stopped shortly after the knot; or at least I hoped I would have stopped.

Any catastrophies averted because you tied a backup knot while rope-soloing? We all know about the numerous accidents, while jugging and rapelling in particular, because of a lack of a backup knot.

EDIT: BTW, the SP has worked great every other time.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Jul 18, 2008 - 04:18pm PT

It may sound trite, but I don't fall when roped soloing. I look at roped soloing as free soloing with extra weight and effort. As there is no partner to double check your rigging, harness, rope etc, you need to be 10 times more careful.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?

Jul 18, 2008 - 04:42pm PT

Eight solos of El Cap from Iron Hawk over to Eagle's Way, all but one using a Grigri, with one using a Solo Aid which I don't like and won't use again. Haven't been caught by my backup knot - yet. That being said,

ALWAYS TIE A BACKUP KNOT! If you do knott, you will end up dead sooner or later.

Funny aside - once met a would-be soloist of NA Wall, who bailed when "my Grigri didn't catch me, and I slid all the way to the end of my rope! Good thing I was tied in!" I told him he had threaded the thing backwards, but he didn't believe me. Never saw him again.

Hmmm - maybe I should solo it once more to overtake Ottawa Doug as the Oldest Old Fart to solo El Cap...

Dr. Rock

Ice climber

Castle Rock

Jul 18, 2008 - 04:57pm PT

Forgive my ignorance, but why do not all ropes have a big knot on both ends?

Is there a time when you HAVE to untie that knot at the end?
Why?
If so, it seems like something is wrong with the hardware system of today.

I have seen one poor guy get it from this in the short time I have been here.

I am going to tie off both ends of my new rope, and the first guy to laugh gets cut.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Jul 18, 2008 - 04:58pm PT

i've yet to fall on my silent partner. i have been pushing myself though, so the experience is probably not too far off. i'm to the point where i can rope solo as difficult as i can lead with a (loud) partner.

my back up knot consists of the loops of slack that i clip to my harness. i use a clove hitch and clip about 20 loops (30' long) on the left side of my harness. so if the s.p. doesn't stop, then i could fall as far as one of my slack loops, then the clove hitch around my harness will act as a back-up. if the gear-loop on the harness fails, then the caribiner will still be thru the clove hitch, which cannot feed through the silent partner.

i look forward to the day that i finally convert this 'theory' to experience.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Jul 18, 2008 - 05:01pm PT

i wouldn't want a big knot in the end of my rope. when you are retrieving your rope after seconding your pitch, that knot will surely wedge in an upward constriction. surely it will. then what? rap down the fuker and untie that big knot!

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Jul 18, 2008 - 05:02pm PT

Dr.

You have to tie the rope into a harness, hence a permanent loop wouldn't work. Also when threading a rope through a rappel anchor you want an untied rope. And a fixed knot is just asking to get snagged when throwing a rope down for a rappel or top rope.

the Fet

Knackered climber

A bivy sack in the secret campground

Jul 18, 2008 - 05:04pm PT

I had about 10 feet of rope buzz thru a gri-gri and then I hit the backup knot, but perhaps the backup knot took the weight off the rope so that could happen. The gri-gri needs some resistance to cam on the rope.

I threaded a gri-gri wrong while following a pendulum with a backup knot right under it. If I didn't have the backup knot I probably would have been more diligent with the gri-gri, but after using a gri-gri for 15 years to thread it wrong for the first time (without a bad consequence) was a good wake up call.

Roman

Trad climber

Boston

Jul 18, 2008 - 05:04pm PT

Forgive my ignorance, but why do not all ropes have a big knot on both ends?

This would make rappelling a real pain in the ass.

Sherri

climber

Jul 18, 2008 - 06:40pm PT

A couple weeks ago, I accidentally grabbed the rope when I lost my balance while top-rope soloing with my Singing Rock Locker device. It happened before I had gotten to a stance where I could tie the first backup knot. Because I was holding onto the rope, neither my device nor my backup prussic caught; I zipped down the rope and decked.

Fortunately, it was probably only a 6 or 7 foot fall and the surface was soft and level, or I would have broken at least an ankle or two. Scared me good, though.

I didn't even realize I was grabbing the rope--certainly I know better not to--but it was a good reminder of why backup knots are important.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Jul 18, 2008 - 07:58pm PT

umm...Sherri perhaps you should add doing chinups while gripping
a rope to the training routine. Just in case it happens again...

ricardo-sf

Sport climber

San Francisco

Jul 18, 2008 - 08:02pm PT

On 3 solo's .. and 4 falls .. so far i've always been stopped by my Grigri .. (though i always tie back up knots) ..

.. i'm always paranoid while soloing that i might thread the grigri backwards .. so i always test it before leaving the anchors .. just lean back and make sure that the grigri cams ..

xtrmecat

Trad climber

Kalispell, Montanagonia

Jul 18, 2008 - 08:03pm PT

Yes, I have. Scared the crap outa me but I'm still here to tell the tale. Never have and wouldn't consider not using one. Fallen quite a few times solo, mostly free climbing.
It was the manzanita choked approach ledge of Liberty Cap last May, and anchored my rope off on the more exposed part and the docking tether of the haulbag to my belay loop so I had enough slack to toss the pig over and under the many obstacles. Nearing the 3/4 section of my rope, I had to toss the pig uphill on some loose sandy stuff, and scoot it around until it would stand on it's own, and then try to climb my sweaty fat but up to it. In the process I stood up and slid down a little and pulled the top of the very overstuffed pig towards me and it yanked my dumb a$$ off faster than I could have imagined. Soloists do not catch head first falls so I went to the backup, which was nearing the end of a 60 meter rope. Went about 50 foot with the stretch and all the give in the slung manzanita I had used for pro.
Scared the crap out of me, but relatively unhurt. Hanging by the backup knot, with the over 100 lb. pig pulling on the belay loop, I was just not having a good time. Had to pull the chest cord off the soloist and prussic the pig up enough to get it off the locker and let her go to the deck. about 250 to 300 feet I suppose. All the basics I needed were in the bag, ascenders, more slings and biners,ladders etc..
Climbed the rope back up to the ledge and got really pissed and scared that I was getting in over my head for a first solo wall, went and gathered my crap, tucked my tail, and went back down to the valley, pretty whipped.
Still love to solo. Still think the way I do it is the right way. I would never hesitate, thinking that the system will not do a good job of keeping me on the cord. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Bob

Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber

Yonder

Jul 18, 2008 - 08:08pm PT

You know, Fet....Gri gri's haven't been around for 15 years...yet. When I first hit the road(90's)....no gris. I've soloed with a gri-gri, but the clove hitch option is surer & cheaper....

johnboy

Trad climber

Can't get here from there

Jul 18, 2008 - 08:29pm PT

"i use a clove hitch and clip about 20 loops (30' long) on the left side of my harness"

Dang, thats a lot of rope.

Never had a fall yet while free climbing roped soloing, still tying back up knots though. Taken a few while aid soloing (pop) but knot onto my knot.

Dr. Rock

Ice climber

Castle Rock

Jul 18, 2008 - 08:52pm PT

OK, after that last story, I am using a propane torch, the best one I can find, which is the David Crosby model, and I am going to burn a Monkey's Fist into each end of this mofo.
It's gonna be a glazed out, dripping plastic like a whooping coffee can lid, did you ever hear that?

Screw going down the rope.
I will take the trail down after I reach the top.

Wait.

What if I get stuck?

Change the 1970's hardware.

Got it!

Wireless Karabiners!

After you rap down, you hit 811 on your cell, and the gate opens up.
Only $79.95 a pop.
Batteries not included.

I don't know about these ropes, I just read about a guy in Pinnacles that started foaming at the mouth after his Prussik stuck, WTF over?

Um, cancel the wireless biner.
What if you hit 811 and every gate on the Captain opens up?

eric peterson

Big Wall climber

pecatonica ill

Jul 29, 2008 - 05:20pm PT

back up knot saved my ass on 3rd pitch of 10 days after on Column went 25 feet to knot and guess what the culprit was.... anybody ???? rope fed backwards through the Grigri scared me enough to run with tail between legs haha

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 29, 2008 - 05:44pm PT

Wow!
A climbing thread!

(yeah I know; guilty as charged)

I think it is very important to be practiced and adept at numerous self-belay techniques before embarking on a major climb,.......... EVEN WITH A PARTNER!!

You might have to solo for help!

Yeah but who does THAT!
(not many for sure)

So,.. to answer the question, I virtually always use a backup tie in.
But I adapt technique to terrain and on occasion will do a short section staccato belayed, so as long as I clip the next knot before abandoning the last I'm tied in (I suppose that is a backup while extending but single while climbing).