Rope-soloing / backup knot save?

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soaring_bird

Trad climber
Cheyenne, WY
Mar 9, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
Back in 1979, I was soloing a new (short overhanging A-3) route in the Bitterroots of Montana using the Steve Barnett solo belay system. This configuration utilized a "Penberthy" ascender knot for a brake, which was described in detail in an issue of Summit Magazine at the time. (I'm sure I'm not the only "old timer" on ST who remembers the Barnett system.) The rope anchored to the ground ran up through the pro. placements, then through a pully on a chest harness, and down through the brake knot. The pully simply ensured there was always an upward pull on the braking knot and made the job of pulling slack through sytem much easier. The Penberthy consisted of a 3 foot length of 3/8 inch diameter non-sheathed, pliable nylon rope wrapped 8 or 9 times around the lead rope in a coil with the ends tied together as a continuous loop, clipped into a locker on the harness. At about 60 ft. off the deck, the tied-off knifeblade I was hanging from popped as did a copperhead, rurp, and lost arrow below. I went for about 40 ft., and the Penberthy knot slipped all the way down to my backup figure eight which ultimately saved me. A homemade #2 copperhead held the fall above. Just below that head was a quarter-inch button-head bolt that would have probably prevented grounding out. About ten feet of the lead rope slid through the Penberthy knot during the fall, and the two actually melted together. I had to peel them apart, "ungluing" nylon melted to nylon. The scent of melted nylon in the air was alarming, but familiar.... it reminded me of being in the climbing shop, using the hot knife to cut sections of webbing for runners or perlon to sling my hexes! Ripping fibers out of the sheath as I unpeeled the Penberthy was like pulling hair. It was dark and snowing at the time, so I lowered off the rest of the way (20 ft. to the talus below), pulled my rope (which I immediately retired), and went home to drink beer. Finished the route a couple weeks later with a new rope using only a series of tied figure eights clipped to locking biners on my Forrest harness rather than a prusik, Penberthy, or any other braking knot. Attempting to use a jumar for a belay brake seemed equally dangerous or worse, so I never really considered trying that. Of course, the gri-gri, Soloist, and Silent Partner weren't invented yet. I held off on doing much more roped soloing until recent years, and I'm now very happy using a Silent Partner.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Mar 9, 2009 - 01:01pm PT
Yo bird!
I was just wondering if anybody else tried that Rube Goldberg set-up and especially if they actually tested it in a fall. I climbed quite a bit with Steve Barnett, a thread topic there, so I got first-hand 'counseling'. After trying that lash-up I needed professional counseling. As you discovered everything had to be juuuust right, not too tight and, in your case, not too loose! I'm glad you survived. I think he was actually setting me up for scheming on his girl friend.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 9, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
BITD when I used a Clog ascender backed up by a prussik backed up by a tie in, I would make a stout short webbing loop into my harness and attach the Clog to a dedicated locker taped in place to avoid crossloading.
The ultimate tie in backup was to the other locker on my harness.
ricardo

Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
Mar 10, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
you guys are confusing 2 systems .. rope solo free.. and rope solo aid ..

.. in rope solo aid .. you dont bring the rope with you .. (in a backpack or in loops) .. you create a continuous loop .. you leave the rope (and its weight) in a container at the belay .. save yourself some grief, and weight.

.. in rope solo free .. well .. i've never done that .. so i dont know .. --


tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Mar 10, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
Not everyone uses a loop for roped solo aiding. Some folks rope solo aid and free similar to a conventional team, only the soloist has to lead, anchor the rope, rap down and then re-climb or jug the pitch. One can clean either during the rap or while jugging/re-climbing the pitch.

hobo

climber
PDX
Mar 10, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
continuous loop? care to explain?

Alex
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
Mar 10, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
Continuous loop is when you tie the lead line to the haul line. Its not really a continuous loop as it has a start and an end, so its really just a long line.

Tie the lead line to the anchor, use a grigri, sp, clove hitch, etc to connect you to the rope. Once you get 30 m up you start dragging the haul line up. The whole point is to reduce the weight of the rope.

Some people use a 30m 7 or 8mm rope between the lead line and the haul line to reduce the weight of the haul line. Also useful if you are towing up two haul lines if you are hauling a lot of stuff and have two haul lines... I've never done this but I've heard that people do.

Once you get to the anchor, you anchor the lead line, set up the haul through the pulley system, tie off the haul line under the pulley with a butterfly or F8 so the weight is on the rope and not the teeth of the haul device. Then rap back to your haul bag, cut it free, and clean the line while jugging.

When you get up to the anchor, you do a mini haul to get the haul bag off the butterfly knot, untie the knot and start hauling. Then reset the whole thing for the next pitch. There are lots of variations of the above, my system is just how I do it, other people do it differently.

If the above doesn't make sense I can explain more ...
hobo

climber
PDX
Mar 10, 2009 - 11:33pm PT
It all makes sense. But who decided to call tying two ropes
together (at one end only) a continuous loop? hahha.

Alex
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 19, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
"Bottom line is if people demand more climbing sh#t, they'll bump it."
bump
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 23, 2009 - 11:52am PT
up. up. and awaaaayyyyy.
F10

Trad climber
Bishop
Dec 29, 2018 - 08:12am PT
O

soaring_bird

Trad climber
Cheyenne, WY

Mar 9, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
Back in 1979, I was soloing a new (short overhanging A-3) route in the Bitterroots of Montana using the Steve Barnett solo belay system. This configuration utilized a "Penberthy" ascender knot for a brake, which was described in detail in an issue of Summit Magazine at the time. (I'm sure I'm not the only "old timer" on ST who remembers the Barnett system.) The rope anchored to the ground ran up through the pro. placements, then through a pully on a chest harness, and down through the brake knot. The pully simply ensured there was always an upward pull on the braking knot and made the job of pulling slack through sytem much easier. The Penberthy consisted of a 3 foot length of 3/8 inch diameter non-sheathed, pliable nylon rope wrapped 8 or 9 times around the lead rope in a coil with the ends tied together as a continuous loop, clipped into a locker on the harness. At about 60 ft. off the deck, the tied-off knifeblade I was hanging from popped as did a copperhead, rurp, and lost arrow below. I went for about 40 ft., and the Penberthy knot slipped all the way down to my backup figure eight which ultimately saved me. A homemade #2 copperhead held the fall above. Just below that head was a quarter-inch button-head bolt that would have probably prevented grounding out. About ten feet of the lead rope slid through the Penberthy knot during the fall, and the two actually melted together. I had to peel them apart, "ungluing" nylon melted to nylon. The scent of melted nylon in the air was alarming, but familiar.... it reminded me of being in the climbing shop, using the hot knife to cut sections of webbing for runners or perlon to sling my hexes! Ripping fibers out of the sheath as I unpeeled the Penberthy was like pulling hair. It was dark and snowing at the time, so I lowered off the rest of the way (20 ft. to the talus below), pulled my rope (which I immediately retired), and went home to drink beer. Finished the route a couple weeks later with a new rope using only a series of tied figure eights clipped to locking biners on my Forrest harness rather than a prusik, Penberthy, or any other braking knot. Attempting to use a jumar for a belay brake seemed equally dangerous or worse, so I never really considered trying that. Of course, the gri-gri, Soloist, and Silent Partner weren't invented yet. I held off on doing much more roped soloing until recent years, and I'm now very happy using a Silent Partner.



I saw this post and sure remember using the Barnett rope solo system. Fairly simple to use but it had to have the right amount of slack/tension when making the wraps. Mainly used it for aid solo climbing. Years later bought a Rock Exoctia Soloist. Always had a back up knot.
Messages 41 - 51 of total 51 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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