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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 18, 2008 - 04:14pm PT
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Has anyone else been saved by their backup knot while rope-soloing?
The only time it happened to me was while playing round with my Silent Partner after I first got it. I was leading a steep, but easy route in the Gunks. I decided to 'jump off' the climb to test the rig. So I find a slightly overhanging section, bomb in a bunch of gear, tie my backup knot with about 20 feet down, and ... jump.
Ended up being caught on the backup knot. What happened? A wired nut from my rack got into the running clove hitch. The clove hitch never sinched up. However, I do think I slowed down quite a bit before hitting the backup knot. I'm thinking I would have stopped shortly after the knot; or at least I hoped I would have stopped.
Any catastrophies averted because you tied a backup knot while rope-soloing? We all know about the numerous accidents, while jugging and rapelling in particular, because of a lack of a backup knot.
EDIT: BTW, the SP has worked great every other time.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 18, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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It may sound trite, but I don't fall when roped soloing. I look at roped soloing as free soloing with extra weight and effort. As there is no partner to double check your rigging, harness, rope etc, you need to be 10 times more careful.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 18, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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Eight solos of El Cap from Iron Hawk over to Eagle's Way, all but one using a Grigri, with one using a Solo Aid which I don't like and won't use again. Haven't been caught by my backup knot - yet. That being said,
ALWAYS TIE A BACKUP KNOT! If you do knott, you will end up dead sooner or later.
Funny aside - once met a would-be soloist of NA Wall, who bailed when "my Grigri didn't catch me, and I slid all the way to the end of my rope! Good thing I was tied in!" I told him he had threaded the thing backwards, but he didn't believe me. Never saw him again.
Hmmm - maybe I should solo it once more to overtake Ottawa Doug as the Oldest Old Fart to solo El Cap...
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Jul 18, 2008 - 04:57pm PT
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Forgive my ignorance, but why do not all ropes have a big knot on both ends?
Is there a time when you HAVE to untie that knot at the end?
Why?
If so, it seems like something is wrong with the hardware system of today.
I have seen one poor guy get it from this in the short time I have been here.
I am going to tie off both ends of my new rope, and the first guy to laugh gets cut.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Jul 18, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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i've yet to fall on my silent partner. i have been pushing myself though, so the experience is probably not too far off. i'm to the point where i can rope solo as difficult as i can lead with a (loud) partner.
my back up knot consists of the loops of slack that i clip to my harness. i use a clove hitch and clip about 20 loops (30' long) on the left side of my harness. so if the s.p. doesn't stop, then i could fall as far as one of my slack loops, then the clove hitch around my harness will act as a back-up. if the gear-loop on the harness fails, then the caribiner will still be thru the clove hitch, which cannot feed through the silent partner.
i look forward to the day that i finally convert this 'theory' to experience.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Jul 18, 2008 - 05:01pm PT
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i wouldn't want a big knot in the end of my rope. when you are retrieving your rope after seconding your pitch, that knot will surely wedge in an upward constriction. surely it will. then what? rap down the fuker and untie that big knot!
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 18, 2008 - 05:02pm PT
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Dr.
You have to tie the rope into a harness, hence a permanent loop wouldn't work. Also when threading a rope through a rappel anchor you want an untied rope. And a fixed knot is just asking to get snagged when throwing a rope down for a rappel or top rope.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jul 18, 2008 - 05:04pm PT
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I had about 10 feet of rope buzz thru a gri-gri and then I hit the backup knot, but perhaps the backup knot took the weight off the rope so that could happen. The gri-gri needs some resistance to cam on the rope.
I threaded a gri-gri wrong while following a pendulum with a backup knot right under it. If I didn't have the backup knot I probably would have been more diligent with the gri-gri, but after using a gri-gri for 15 years to thread it wrong for the first time (without a bad consequence) was a good wake up call.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Jul 18, 2008 - 05:04pm PT
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Forgive my ignorance, but why do not all ropes have a big knot on both ends?
This would make rappelling a real pain in the ass.
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Sherri
climber
WA
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Jul 18, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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A couple weeks ago, I accidentally grabbed the rope when I lost my balance while top-rope soloing with my Singing Rock Locker device. It happened before I had gotten to a stance where I could tie the first backup knot. Because I was holding onto the rope, neither my device nor my backup prussic caught; I zipped down the rope and decked.
Fortunately, it was probably only a 6 or 7 foot fall and the surface was soft and level, or I would have broken at least an ankle or two. Scared me good, though.
I didn't even realize I was grabbing the rope--certainly I know better not to--but it was a good reminder of why backup knots are important.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 18, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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umm...Sherri perhaps you should add doing chinups while gripping
a rope to the training routine. Just in case it happens again...
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:02pm PT
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On 3 solo's .. and 4 falls .. so far i've always been stopped by my Grigri .. (though i always tie back up knots) ..
.. i'm always paranoid while soloing that i might thread the grigri backwards .. so i always test it before leaving the anchors .. just lean back and make sure that the grigri cams ..
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:03pm PT
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Yes, I have. Scared the crap outa me but I'm still here to tell the tale. Never have and wouldn't consider not using one. Fallen quite a few times solo, mostly free climbing.
It was the manzanita choked approach ledge of Liberty Cap last May, and anchored my rope off on the more exposed part and the docking tether of the haulbag to my belay loop so I had enough slack to toss the pig over and under the many obstacles. Nearing the 3/4 section of my rope, I had to toss the pig uphill on some loose sandy stuff, and scoot it around until it would stand on it's own, and then try to climb my sweaty fat but up to it. In the process I stood up and slid down a little and pulled the top of the very overstuffed pig towards me and it yanked my dumb a$$ off faster than I could have imagined. Soloists do not catch head first falls so I went to the backup, which was nearing the end of a 60 meter rope. Went about 50 foot with the stretch and all the give in the slung manzanita I had used for pro.
Scared the crap out of me, but relatively unhurt. Hanging by the backup knot, with the over 100 lb. pig pulling on the belay loop, I was just not having a good time. Had to pull the chest cord off the soloist and prussic the pig up enough to get it off the locker and let her go to the deck. about 250 to 300 feet I suppose. All the basics I needed were in the bag, ascenders, more slings and biners,ladders etc..
Climbed the rope back up to the ledge and got really pissed and scared that I was getting in over my head for a first solo wall, went and gathered my crap, tucked my tail, and went back down to the valley, pretty whipped.
Still love to solo. Still think the way I do it is the right way. I would never hesitate, thinking that the system will not do a good job of keeping me on the cord. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Bob
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Yonder
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:08pm PT
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You know, Fet....Gri gri's haven't been around for 15 years...yet. When I first hit the road(90's)....no gris. I've soloed with a gri-gri, but the clove hitch option is surer & cheaper....
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:29pm PT
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"i use a clove hitch and clip about 20 loops (30' long) on the left side of my harness"
Dang, thats a lot of rope.
Never had a fall yet while free climbing roped soloing, still tying back up knots though. Taken a few while aid soloing (pop) but knot onto my knot.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Jul 18, 2008 - 08:52pm PT
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OK, after that last story, I am using a propane torch, the best one I can find, which is the David Crosby model, and I am going to burn a Monkey's Fist into each end of this mofo.
It's gonna be a glazed out, dripping plastic like a whooping coffee can lid, did you ever hear that?
Screw going down the rope.
I will take the trail down after I reach the top.
Wait.
What if I get stuck?
Change the 1970's hardware.
Got it!
Wireless Karabiners!
After you rap down, you hit 811 on your cell, and the gate opens up.
Only $79.95 a pop.
Batteries not included.
I don't know about these ropes, I just read about a guy in Pinnacles that started foaming at the mouth after his Prussik stuck, WTF over?
Um, cancel the wireless biner.
What if you hit 811 and every gate on the Captain opens up?
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eric peterson
Big Wall climber
pecatonica ill
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Jul 29, 2008 - 05:20pm PT
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back up knot saved my ass on 3rd pitch of 10 days after on Column went 25 feet to knot and guess what the culprit was.... anybody ???? rope fed backwards through the Grigri scared me enough to run with tail between legs haha
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 29, 2008 - 05:44pm PT
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Wow!
A climbing thread!
(yeah I know; guilty as charged)
I think it is very important to be practiced and adept at numerous self-belay techniques before embarking on a major climb,.......... EVEN WITH A PARTNER!!
You might have to solo for help!
Yeah but who does THAT!
(not many for sure)
So,.. to answer the question, I virtually always use a backup tie in.
But I adapt technique to terrain and on occasion will do a short section staccato belayed, so as long as I clip the next knot before abandoning the last I'm tied in (I suppose that is a backup while extending but single while climbing).
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scuffy b
climber
Zeno's Paradise
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:18pm PT
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Skully, they were around in 92 for sure.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:26pm PT
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nope, gri-gri has allways worked.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
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I recall reading a report a few years ago about a solo climber on El Cap who took a short fall and his Gri Gri broke the carabiner to which it was attached. he tool a fall the remaining rope length and was caught by being tied in to the end of the rope. it was someone who seemed well-known around the internet. Does anyone else remember that story?
Dave
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 29, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
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Yeah, British guy speed climbing Eagles Way...injured and had to be rescued. NPS tried to charge him for the rescue because he didn't have bivi gear or something of that sort...
Read he back cleaned a bunch then ripped some heads and landed directly on the belay anchor. Locker was that DMM Belaymaster thing with the plastic piece to prevent cross-loading.
I use a fatty steel locker now.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 29, 2008 - 08:28pm PT
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Sounds like a long range screamer(likely with lots of screaming too LOL)
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Jul 29, 2008 - 10:05pm PT
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Read the link about the Brit. Thanks for the info Del Cross, as when someone asks why I prefer my soloist to other systems that is the key reason. It is tied to me in a way that is about as infalable as tieing into the end of the cord. All the other systems can be loaded wrong at the atachment during a fall. Not saying I haven't used the others, just feel a lot better with the solist, with a clove or eight tied down rope a ways to stop a head first, non lockup fall.
Bob
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 29, 2008 - 10:11pm PT
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No, I don't belive it his a joke. I suspect he has a rack of non-locking biners around the side of his harness waistbelt with the gates positioned down and out on to which the loops of rope are attached.
Back in '75 I was in Boulder alone for the first time and while I could get partners from the board at Boulder Mountaineering, they'd all back out when they found out I was from So. Ill. One day while waiting at the store to be blown off yet again I got to reading, or rather misreading, Doug Scott's 'Big Wall' book and in my altered state completely misinterpreted his aid soloing drawings. After a day of highly entertaining hilarity up on the low roof at Castle Rock I finally morphed whatever was in the book into a system I thought would work for free climbing.
The next day I went to Eldo and roped soloed the Bastille Crack and was launched with it. What 'it' had morphed into was coil half the rope and put it over one shoulder and then with the other half of the rope tying a figure-8 ever thirty feet and hanging those on, you guessed it, a bunch of biners down and out on my [right] harness waistbelt (sawmi). I'd build an anchor and clip the end of the rope into it and climb half a rope length, dropping knots off my harness whenever I had to, clipped the rope normally, and then set an anchor whenever I got to the mid-mark, rapping on the coiled half of the line.
I did that for several decades and even had Metolius make me a harness with nine full-strength loops around the entire right side of it just for roped soloing. Worked great until grigris came along and my wise and sage friend Bud Smith said, "cut that sh#t out, throw the rope in a small backpack, and just use a grigri," which I immediately did. And I did that until the Edelrid Eddy came along which I've been using ever since. I have to say I don't miss all the rope loops hanging from me when I'm climbing.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Social climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jul 29, 2008 - 11:21pm PT
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Thanks for that link Del Cross.
What an amazing story and analysis.
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Double D
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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Ok, I’m just curious. I used to solo aid with a clove hitch. No problems since both hands are free when standing in stirrups. Recently my main climbing partner moved and let’s just say it takes about 4-6 partners to replace him since most of our climbing when it’s hot has to be before 9:30am (and I have to work for a living!) and most partners aren't willing to be at the crag as it's getting light.
So I though it would be an interesting idea to start learning how to roped solo on free routes. My first day out I chose a sport route that was normally an easy warm up for me and used a clove hitch. Not so good! I pulled it off but had major knots in my arms from hanging so long.
Next day I borrowed a Gri-gri on the same route. It took a while to get the feeding thing going but it worked quite well to yard up the loose end of the rope, hold it in my teeth while I feed the slack through the device, then clip the next piece. It’s sort of like what you do when you are clipping something way over your head, but you end up doing it twice which is not so bad. Since this route is overhanging, there’s no problem with rope management. I worked with a system of back up knots but soon just took my chances with just one back up knot estimated to be just past the end of the route. Now if I fell towards the lower part of the route and my device failed, I’d be screwed but up past the 2/3rds mark it would work. In the end, this seems way safer on routes that are slightly below my ability as I am confident that I have better chances of actually climbing it free rather than pumping out trying to undo numerous knots. I was successful in using a couple of locking biners with pre-placed clove hitches which release fast, but still the time and effort spent un-hitching them seemed more dangerous than climbing through in my opinion (and again, I’m climbing several grades below my abilities).
The one thing about a grigri I don’t like is that it’s rigged to a biner which could shear (as the El Cap story above). I will start using a steel biner but I also thought about using a small loop of ultra-strong webbing like spectra to loop it through the grigri then clip it into the locking biner. This seems like it would be way more flexible and couldn’t shear. Any one tried this or have thoughts?
So after feeling confident on steep rock, I started thinking about the lower angle stuff with tons of dinner plates that we have in this area. It’s a rope-handling nightmare. So I tied into the far end, flaked it in a pack and away I went. The climbing was way easy, to the extent that an unroped solo would not be a big deal but loops from tie in knots would be disastrous. Although this worked out well, stuffing the rope back in my pack was tedious and took too much time. I’ve notice there are several brands of “rope bucket” packs out there and seem to address the issue of holding the top open or simply unfolding like a rope tarp. Anyone have a recommendation? My concern about the tarp types is what to do on a hanging belay? Which ones load the quickest? I do like the idea of having the rope with me on climbs where likelihood of a loop getting stuck below you is real high. I've actually thought about buying a Rubermaid type trash can, and cutting out the bottom and sticking it into my pack to hold it open. I guess that's the Southern engineer in me! (-;
Your experiences and suggestions are much appreciated!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Sep 28, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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i hang the entire rope on the left side of my harness, clove-hitched to oval biners in loops of slack. i've been up many many pitches up to .10 on steep rock and low angle, featured rock, and i've only had my system catch constrictions maybe 5 times. when it does catch, it usually just requires a short down climb and flick of the rope to free the stuck loop.
management of the system and constant eyeing is key. when i get lazy on this, my system gives me grief. when i watch it all closely, it goes smooth.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 28, 2008 - 01:43am PT
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I've taken two falls where my backup knot would not have saved me before arriving at biff city, but I still use one.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 10:30am PT
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I know a guy who took a big whipper using a Grigri. The rope caught under the handle and prevented the cam from engaging. He got some nasty rope burn on his arm and was stopped by the backup. I'm not sure if he was using the solo mod of his Grigri at that time, but he certainly modded after that.
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Sep 28, 2008 - 12:02pm PT
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"I will start using a steel biner but I also thought about using a small loop of ultra-strong webbing like spectra to loop it through the grigri then clip it into the locking biner. This seems like it would be way more flexible and couldn’t shear. Any one tried this or have thoughts?"
Please do not even consider doing the above. The radius of the hole end of your gri was never intended to have soft goods in it. I have nothing more than common sense to back this up but if you exert anything more than a very slight fall the cord/webbing, no matter what kind of fiber,or shape, will have such a sharp load my guess is it will cut. Probably be the last pop you will ever hear.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Sep 28, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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You could use a double loop prussik for a backup.
It slides around a lot better than a standard three loop, but you have to stop your self before it melts.
They will slide into a slow 'self destructo" mode, but you should have your stuffing together by then.
Sometimes they actually hold as good as a triple, sometimes knott.
So that "other brand" belay device has the handle that locks the rope if you press it all the way, this was supposed to be for panic stricken belay people pushing the lever all the way to stop the guy.
So I see another reason, if the rope holds it open, it will arrest, preventing the above mentioned incident?
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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Hey could anyone post a photo of your modified grigri. Had a question about it, need to see a photo of it to answer my questions.
thanks
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:37am PT
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hey there toleman_paul.. say, thanks for the fill-in about why the ropes are always tied... i too, had always wondered why this was such a safe-guard that seemed to be "found undone" so many times... i had always wondered why the folks had not tied the knott...
hey there piton ron... say, very good solid advice...
as to your quote:
"I think it is very important to be practiced and adept at numerous self-belay techniques before embarking on a major climb,.......... EVEN WITH A PARTNER!! "
*say, folks do this before "putting on a show" (on stage, etc)... so why not, before putting ones life on the line, as well...
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:45am PT
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my backup know (edit... knot) system has not been tested, but it has been scrutinized by its user..me.
i realize that the gear loops are not full strength. even if the gear loop fails, then a clove hitch with a biner through will wedge on the stop side of the silent partner, hence stopping the release of slack... whallaa... "back-up knot". i guess the two metals colliding could cause impact damage, but probably not since it will be a gradual application of force.
hell, i got bigger things aiming at my venerability than the above mentioned 'what-if'.
does anyone use a backup know system?? funny typo.
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DaveT.
Big Wall climber
southeast face portaledge
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
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This is such a sketchy thread! There is so much bad info here, someone might get hurt. the norweigen guy's set up, that is such a cluster- and dangerous! Gonna break those two belay biners due to extreme crossloading in a fall, and then rip the gear loops off his harness before he hits the ground. And what a pain to set up for every pitch, time consuming and sketchy!
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Wallwombat
Trad climber
Australia
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In my experience the safest way to connect a grigri to your harness for roped soloing, is with a steel D shaped Maillion. These can handle accidental cross loading.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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So, if you don't attach the loose end of the rope to your harness (several loops, etc) how is the best to manage the rope.
Also if you use a light pack, what are some good models? Do you tie knots in the rope as a backup.
Dave T. What system do you use?
Thanks.
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Double D
climber
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John Mac... I use a grigri with a big ole steel biner, or sometimes a locking rig with that cross bar. I do back up with 2-3 knotts on very simple clove hitches attached to locking biners that are attached to small spectra slings looped around my harness. Because of the terrain here that has lots of flakes for the loops to get snagged upon, I generally use a backpack that is a rope-bag. After getting frustrated with a floppy pack for a rope bag I took standard plastic trash can (office sized)cut off the top and bottom, then slit one side top to bottom and stuffed this inside of my pack to keep it stiff and open. The cool thing about this southern-engineered rig is that you can pack all sorts of gear in it and not have to pay attention to what might jab you in the back because the plastic liner keeps things at bay. I wish I'd discovered this trick long ago.
On steeper stuff where it's easy to controll the loops I don't climb with the pack, just let them hang and occasionally give them a flick if they are threatening to get caught.
As mentioned several times in this thread, the key to roped soloing is to practice your system and get it wired.
Happy climbing!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Waiting for Dave T. here....
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soaring_bird
Trad climber
Cheyenne, WY
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Back in 1979, I was soloing a new (short overhanging A-3) route in the Bitterroots of Montana using the Steve Barnett solo belay system. This configuration utilized a "Penberthy" ascender knot for a brake, which was described in detail in an issue of Summit Magazine at the time. (I'm sure I'm not the only "old timer" on ST who remembers the Barnett system.) The rope anchored to the ground ran up through the pro. placements, then through a pully on a chest harness, and down through the brake knot. The pully simply ensured there was always an upward pull on the braking knot and made the job of pulling slack through sytem much easier. The Penberthy consisted of a 3 foot length of 3/8 inch diameter non-sheathed, pliable nylon rope wrapped 8 or 9 times around the lead rope in a coil with the ends tied together as a continuous loop, clipped into a locker on the harness. At about 60 ft. off the deck, the tied-off knifeblade I was hanging from popped as did a copperhead, rurp, and lost arrow below. I went for about 40 ft., and the Penberthy knot slipped all the way down to my backup figure eight which ultimately saved me. A homemade #2 copperhead held the fall above. Just below that head was a quarter-inch button-head bolt that would have probably prevented grounding out. About ten feet of the lead rope slid through the Penberthy knot during the fall, and the two actually melted together. I had to peel them apart, "ungluing" nylon melted to nylon. The scent of melted nylon in the air was alarming, but familiar.... it reminded me of being in the climbing shop, using the hot knife to cut sections of webbing for runners or perlon to sling my hexes! Ripping fibers out of the sheath as I unpeeled the Penberthy was like pulling hair. It was dark and snowing at the time, so I lowered off the rest of the way (20 ft. to the talus below), pulled my rope (which I immediately retired), and went home to drink beer. Finished the route a couple weeks later with a new rope using only a series of tied figure eights clipped to locking biners on my Forrest harness rather than a prusik, Penberthy, or any other braking knot. Attempting to use a jumar for a belay brake seemed equally dangerous or worse, so I never really considered trying that. Of course, the gri-gri, Soloist, and Silent Partner weren't invented yet. I held off on doing much more roped soloing until recent years, and I'm now very happy using a Silent Partner.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Yo bird!
I was just wondering if anybody else tried that Rube Goldberg set-up and especially if they actually tested it in a fall. I climbed quite a bit with Steve Barnett, a thread topic there, so I got first-hand 'counseling'. After trying that lash-up I needed professional counseling. As you discovered everything had to be juuuust right, not too tight and, in your case, not too loose! I'm glad you survived. I think he was actually setting me up for scheming on his girl friend.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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BITD when I used a Clog ascender backed up by a prussik backed up by a tie in, I would make a stout short webbing loop into my harness and attach the Clog to a dedicated locker taped in place to avoid crossloading.
The ultimate tie in backup was to the other locker on my harness.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Mar 10, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
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you guys are confusing 2 systems .. rope solo free.. and rope solo aid ..
.. in rope solo aid .. you dont bring the rope with you .. (in a backpack or in loops) .. you create a continuous loop .. you leave the rope (and its weight) in a container at the belay .. save yourself some grief, and weight.
.. in rope solo free .. well .. i've never done that .. so i dont know .. --
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 10, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Not everyone uses a loop for roped solo aiding. Some folks rope solo aid and free similar to a conventional team, only the soloist has to lead, anchor the rope, rap down and then re-climb or jug the pitch. One can clean either during the rap or while jugging/re-climbing the pitch.
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Mar 10, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
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continuous loop? care to explain?
Alex
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Mar 10, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
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Continuous loop is when you tie the lead line to the haul line. Its not really a continuous loop as it has a start and an end, so its really just a long line.
Tie the lead line to the anchor, use a grigri, sp, clove hitch, etc to connect you to the rope. Once you get 30 m up you start dragging the haul line up. The whole point is to reduce the weight of the rope.
Some people use a 30m 7 or 8mm rope between the lead line and the haul line to reduce the weight of the haul line. Also useful if you are towing up two haul lines if you are hauling a lot of stuff and have two haul lines... I've never done this but I've heard that people do.
Once you get to the anchor, you anchor the lead line, set up the haul through the pulley system, tie off the haul line under the pulley with a butterfly or F8 so the weight is on the rope and not the teeth of the haul device. Then rap back to your haul bag, cut it free, and clean the line while jugging.
When you get up to the anchor, you do a mini haul to get the haul bag off the butterfly knot, untie the knot and start hauling. Then reset the whole thing for the next pitch. There are lots of variations of the above, my system is just how I do it, other people do it differently.
If the above doesn't make sense I can explain more ...
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Mar 10, 2009 - 11:33pm PT
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It all makes sense. But who decided to call tying two ropes
together (at one end only) a continuous loop? hahha.
Alex
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 19, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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"Bottom line is if people demand more climbing sh#t, they'll bump it."
bump
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Mar 23, 2009 - 11:52am PT
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up. up. and awaaaayyyyy.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Dec 29, 2018 - 08:12am PT
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O
soaring_bird
Trad climber
Cheyenne, WY
Mar 9, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
Back in 1979, I was soloing a new (short overhanging A-3) route in the Bitterroots of Montana using the Steve Barnett solo belay system. This configuration utilized a "Penberthy" ascender knot for a brake, which was described in detail in an issue of Summit Magazine at the time. (I'm sure I'm not the only "old timer" on ST who remembers the Barnett system.) The rope anchored to the ground ran up through the pro. placements, then through a pully on a chest harness, and down through the brake knot. The pully simply ensured there was always an upward pull on the braking knot and made the job of pulling slack through sytem much easier. The Penberthy consisted of a 3 foot length of 3/8 inch diameter non-sheathed, pliable nylon rope wrapped 8 or 9 times around the lead rope in a coil with the ends tied together as a continuous loop, clipped into a locker on the harness. At about 60 ft. off the deck, the tied-off knifeblade I was hanging from popped as did a copperhead, rurp, and lost arrow below. I went for about 40 ft., and the Penberthy knot slipped all the way down to my backup figure eight which ultimately saved me. A homemade #2 copperhead held the fall above. Just below that head was a quarter-inch button-head bolt that would have probably prevented grounding out. About ten feet of the lead rope slid through the Penberthy knot during the fall, and the two actually melted together. I had to peel them apart, "ungluing" nylon melted to nylon. The scent of melted nylon in the air was alarming, but familiar.... it reminded me of being in the climbing shop, using the hot knife to cut sections of webbing for runners or perlon to sling my hexes! Ripping fibers out of the sheath as I unpeeled the Penberthy was like pulling hair. It was dark and snowing at the time, so I lowered off the rest of the way (20 ft. to the talus below), pulled my rope (which I immediately retired), and went home to drink beer. Finished the route a couple weeks later with a new rope using only a series of tied figure eights clipped to locking biners on my Forrest harness rather than a prusik, Penberthy, or any other braking knot. Attempting to use a jumar for a belay brake seemed equally dangerous or worse, so I never really considered trying that. Of course, the gri-gri, Soloist, and Silent Partner weren't invented yet. I held off on doing much more roped soloing until recent years, and I'm now very happy using a Silent Partner.
I saw this post and sure remember using the Barnett rope solo system. Fairly simple to use but it had to have the right amount of slack/tension when making the wraps. Mainly used it for aid solo climbing. Years later bought a Rock Exoctia Soloist. Always had a back up knot.
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