Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1892 - 1911 of total 2678 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Sean Jones

Apr 28, 2008 - 11:21pm PT

Just got in from a long day and thought I'd check the site just for the hell of it. Don't have too much time right now as the kids need story time and bed. I did read your last post though and it's very nice.

Sorry to you or anyone for the times I got pissy. I very much love life too and really try not to be an as#@&%e. Sometimes I blow it though just like anyone.

So many people say to me, don't look at super topo. It's just a bunch of pissy old f$cks that don't climb anyway. They're wrong though. I've learned alot from all this and made many new friends from it.

Sooooo many interesting people with so much to say. So many people Soooooo involved in climbing with very important things to say.

Wherever, whenever,.......beers on me. look forward to it.
I'll read more later tonight.

3,000 ? !!!!!!!!


Social climber
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:33am PT
Well, if it took 2000+ posts to get to this, it was worth it.

 an old f*ck
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:43am PT
Well said, Scott;......I have have the greatest respect for you as a climber and as a friend, and as we get older and hopefully wiser, we can realize that climbing is many things for many people......We climb because we dig it, and we love it.......When we were younger, we took it all so serious; was sort of like our religion.....and we were able to accomplish some amazing things;......It's taken many years and lots of climbs and friends to help me get it all into a "healthy" perspective in my too Coz;....and you are a greater person because of it. Being talented and motivated is the end of the day, we are all just people, having fun, doing our climbs, and trying to figure it all out and keep the ball rolling. You know alot about climbing and people, Scott;......and you have alot to say;....and you didn't get to know so much about climbing from a magazine, a website, a gym, or a book;.......but time on stone..........your last post , I thought , was full of insight , wisdom, and good vibes............(About time you grew up and figured it out......) Good for you! Maybe as we get older, we suck more at climbing, but every now and again, we get some insight....some hint as to what is going on as we stumble through life in our blissful sunset years.......(See ya at next local AARP gathering.....we can talk about social security, medical, and geritol..and those Mo fos who hang dog, rap bolt, put in convience anchors and ..............) never ends,...does it?....we are doomed...........

Lat/Lon: 35.64 -117.66
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:46am PT
Wow, I will finally get a good nights sleep tonight.

Trad climber
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:52am PT
In this context it's worth drawing attention to Tony Yaniro's
route called Scirocco, on the East Face of the Sorcerer, in the
Needles, CA. This route (III, 5.12a, see "Fifty Favorite Climbs"
by Mark Kroese for details) was controversial when it was first
put up, because the bolts were drilled from hooks rather than

"We got a lot of flak", Tony said. "Everyone accused us of
overbolting the route, even though some of them are 20 feet

The interesting thing is that Tony gave future climbers license
to chop all bolts that they were willing to skip when they
climbed the route. (Twenty years later all bolts were still
there). I've always felt that this offer by the first ascent team
is a fair and sporting offer - climb it, and if you don't use
the bolts, feel free to chop.

In spite of the large mass of threads supporting GU, I tend to
share the same sentiments as Coz - be extremely sparing with
the bolt. Furthermore, I think that an act of desecration like
placing a bolt always needs to be qualified by a statement like
Tony Yaniro's: if you can climb the route without the bolt, feel
free to chop it.

Spencer Adkisson

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:53am PT
I am in the process of earning my teaching credential, and working on a Master of Arts in Teaching through Sierra Nevada College. I've been fulfilling observation hours, but I'm pretty hands-on in the classroom, so I end up team teaching. I love it, but I have to admit that first graders are not my first choice. I'm one of those 5th-8th grade types of guys. I'm awkward and slightly psychotic, so the students and I understand each other, and get along real well.

I can't wait for this semester to be over. One and a half weeks!!! My wife is defending her Masters Thesis in Climatology Wednesday morning. After that, I guess there is nothing left to do, but go send that sick new route we've been hearing so much about up on the South Face of Half Dome.

What grade/subject do you teach?

Social climber
The West
Apr 29, 2008 - 01:36am PT
Spencer, I am a middle school Special Ed (SMH) teacher. As you mentioned you found, I (in my case a 51yr old climber (generalist minoring in OW)) also have a lot in common with my students. It's good to be with my people! In all seriousness, they really do help me see things in myself I hadn't fully realized till now, assuming I really 'get it' at this time...
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Apr 29, 2008 - 01:42am PT
Nice post Coz.

Funny how the dialog goes from inflammatory (and then inflamed reactions) to conciliatory. We must have had pre-2000 stress.

Coz wrote

"I climbed the Southern Belle, because I liked the looks of the South Face of Half Dome. Dave and I, drunk and broken hearted(over the loss of current girlfriends to ex boyfriends), in Boulder Colorado, sat facing each other in a bar. I look down at my glass and Dave said, "cheer up Coz we can go to the valley and free the Southern Belle." I said," why'd you call it - Southern Belle." Dave answered," because some pera broke Walt's heart and she was from the south."

Too funny. How many bold routes have resulted from the right guys being dumped by the wrong women?




Coz wrote

" I was solid, Karl, and an elite athlete who dream of climbing at the outer limits of the possible (spirt, mind and body). What's wrong with that? "

Nothing brother, as long as you're ready to allow others to have their dreams too.

Other climbers have allowed your team to take a beautiful piece of stone on Half Dome and make it into the shape of your dreams even though that put it off limits to them. I think we should give Sean and Doug that same benefit of the doubt.

"you can not perceive what you can not understand, so before you judge try to understand. "

Great advice for everybody. I'm cool with agreeing to strongly disagree, but as soon as the chop talk starts, before the route sees enough traffic to judge it's reality, I start calling foul.

I have this "wizard of Coz" song going through my head today after the "Almighty Coz" post. It's too funny

Peace edited

Dr. Rock

Ice climber
Castle Rock
Apr 29, 2008 - 01:45am PT
i just rap bolted p diddy's ass.
Sean Jones

Apr 29, 2008 - 01:53am PT

In reading backwards I noticed that right after I posted last with some explanations on how things were done and some of the thinking involved, that you had to find something wrong with that. The bolts on the bolt ladder are too close.

You know, even if I had gone up there and gone anchor to anchor. Proud as hell, someone then would have been bashing me for that. When you're in my possition, you just can't win.

They're not 2 ft apart. more like 4 to 5 ft. Not much different than any other ladder in the valley. Before I ever left the valley floor, and long before the decision to rap the top of the route, I knew I was on a mission to create the MOST climbable route on the s. face.

It's a no brainer that there would probly be alot of bolts. If I was on a mission to leave behind the least amount of holes, I would have simply made things way more run out. That was never my goal to begin with.

As for complaining about the escape route or raps to the ground. Surely soooooo many people will be glad to know that that is an option. That doesn't make them pussies. It makes them smart

One day while on the upper wall, a storm came in quickly from the east side. The way they do so commonly there. Thunder and lightning started driving bolts into the Clark range as I carried on. It seemed to be sweeping abit to the north but had us way on edge.

The sky cacked and a blot drove straight into the ground behind us in LYV. My partner said f$ck you man and started to descend as I carried on. Soon after the storm had buried the top of the dome and rain started to pour. The most epic lightning storm I have ever witnessed in my life came with the rain. Bolts were driving into the dome as I descended and waterfalls poured off of the wall.

Soaked and quickly freezing and scared for my life like never before, I carried on. Even running for the camp was scary as the blots carried on. Sitting in the tent was scary as the bolts carried on. ANYONE with any degree of hopes of living a long and happy life WILL be glad knowing that the rap route is there.

Not to mention all the other reasons people need to bail off of walls. The abillity to do a self rescue and not have to have YOSAR pluck you off the wall seems like a good thing to me as well. The more YOSAR has to keep pulling idiots off of walls is bad for all of us the way I see it.

Like I said, I was never worried about the # of bolts on the route as opposed to how and where they were placed. And seeing the line through the way I wanted it done. This line is as state of the art as it gets. Trust this and watch as history unfolds. People will climb this line and many will rave about it. Lines just don't get any better than this.

The one thing I will always take the most pride in is how my lines are left behind. Far beyond how bold I am as a climber. I don't need to prove anything to anyone about how bad ass I am. I'm not bad ass. I've been humbled time and time again and shown just how breakable I am. Espessially when it comes to women. I've seen myself down on the ground crying like a little baby. That's what I was doing up there the whole time, crying like a little baby. So sorry to all of you that had to endure being around me for that. You know who you are and all I can say is thanks for being there for me.

Sean Jones

Apr 29, 2008 - 01:58am PT
Todd Gordon,

Thank you !!!!!

For the post, the support, and the open invetation to your home all those years in Joshua Tree. I never stayed there bacause I didn't want to invade your space any more than it already was.

But I always knew the door was open. As my door is open to you and your family right now. My door is open to anyone on this post any time you're in Yosemite and just need to come down the hill and get away from the chaos in the valley. I'm very serious about that.


Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:10pm PT
Page 2?

I don't think so.

Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 29, 2008 - 12:22pm PT
Being an old bastard sucks! My walker gets in the way. Every time I think I found a nice little stance to drill from, that sucker's swinging around tangling my hammer cord.

One thing I do get better at is listening. I'll be there Wizard! Pass me another beer...

And I'm bringing my copy of Collapse -- great book -- so you can 'splain me where it says rap bolting is the tipping point for the crash of Western Civilization.
Dingus Milktoast

Apr 29, 2008 - 12:41pm PT
DR you need one of Brutus of Wyde's Chrome Plated Walkers (Tm) from the Old Climbers' Home in Oakland. He will hook a brother up!



Trad climber
Apr 29, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
Note to self: Do not check supertopo while eating breakfast...

just kidding. you are handsum.

Grand Rapids, MI
Apr 29, 2008 - 01:50pm PT
Contrary to what that little box on the left says, I'm not a climber at all -- doubt I've ever been over grade 3 -- but I stumbled across this thread following a chain of "hmm, that looks interesting" links and found myself enthralled. Not so much by the ethics discussion itself (as I obviously don't have any perspective from which to have an opinion), but by the very real sense of history, and, more importantly, *community* displayed, even among those of you who have never met outside of this forum.

So I just thought I'd pop in and say, if I ever *do* find the time to get off my mushy computer programmer a$$ and go learn to climb something, it will, in no small part, be because of this thread, because you all seem like an incredible bunch of people to hang out with.

Even Matt. ;-)


Trad climber
Josh, CA
Apr 29, 2008 - 02:55pm PT
"So I just thought I'd pop in and say, if I ever *do* find the time to get off my mushy computer programmer a$$ and go learn to climb something, it will, in no small part, be because of this thread, because you all seem like an incredible bunch of people to hang out with."

About the only thing you will get out of the climbing community is lousy hygene, poor eating habits, how to consume large quantities of lighter fluid while convincing yourself it's beer, and an amazing series of adventures that will last you many lifetimes.

On the other hand, you could just sit in traffic and breathe smog the whole time hoping you don't get shot.

Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
Apr 29, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
"Even Matt. ;-) "

the Fet

Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
Apr 29, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
Sean's post made me realize: God has been driving bolts into Half Dome from the top down for millions of years. How come he gets a pass?
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Apr 29, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
I just loaded the whole thread at once, which took 319 seconds (5:31).
I followed TIG's advice and pasted into Word using the Paste Special command and
pasting as unformatted text. Here is what I got:

Anyone know how to remove all the space between the paragraphs? That would knock
the page-count down considerably...
Messages 1892 - 1911 of total 2678 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews