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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Apr 30, 2008 - 05:16pm PT
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It is illegal to use helicopters to transport hunters in Alaska. It is illegal to hunt from a vehicle in motion, except for some limited preditor control programs. It is illegal to kill bald eagles anywhere in the US, it's even illegal to have a feather from a bald eagle, unless you are a native american with special paperwork for ceremonial purposes.
It is the attempt of a dumbazz trying to be a smartazz to suggest hunting bald eagles in Alaska from a helicopter while discussing the issue of placing fixed protection via rappel in a National Park, especially the park that is the premier and historic focus of rock climbing in the US.
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Apr 30, 2008 - 05:29pm PT
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Looks like Matt lost his 2000th seat and jstan wins the shirt. Somehow I'm just thinking he ain't gonna wear it. He should offer it to Matt for a valiant yet somewhat lame effort :-)
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Apr 30, 2008 - 06:31pm PT
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That was me...
I had to sacrifice several of my VIPs (Very Important Posts™), but I did it for ya'll...
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SlipKnot
Social climber
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:04pm PT
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k-man
What spun me off was Karl’s statement:
“It's worth noting that, in this discussion, there are those who claim their way is the only way, and those who admit that both ways have a place. There is a difference in anal-reality-retention between these standpoints that's worth noting.”
That statement attempts to co-opt the high moral ground by stating that he (Karl) and those sharing his view are open, flexible, peace-loving types while I (he named me specifically in his post) and those sharing my view are the intolerant, inflexible, anal-retentive ones. The logical end to his view is that any climb which employs any tactic should be fully accepted (with his later qualification ‘so long as it is legal’, and perhaps we should add ‘so long as it directly hurts no one else’) and that anyone who objects to any such climb is the fool.
My point is that the position “rap bolting SFHD is good” is a position just as narrow, inflexible, and of no higher moral ground than the position “rap bolting on SFHD” is bad. Having the view that “every view is valid” is a view of its own and carries all the baggage that goes with holding a view.
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SlipKnot
Social climber
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:05pm PT
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DR
I just got around to a careful reading of your post from early this morning:
“I contributed to leaving behind a legacy that is less clear cut than my trad roots. This makes me nervous. Because if you want black and white answers about how to climb a rock, they damn sure aren't here in the route we made.”
Your post helps me come closer to accepting GU. While you are proud of the route and would do it again, you are obviously thinking, trying to make good routes, and not frozen into a belief system. While I’m not yet happy with or accepting of GU, you get a lot of credit for openness and reasonableness. Perhaps I have something to learn from you about how I process conflicting ideas.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:16pm PT
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Having the view that “every view is valid” is a view of its own and carries all the baggage that goes with holding a view.
In another time's forgotten space
Your eyes looked from your Mother's face
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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Thanks SlipKnot,
It was your dialog with Spencer that got me thinking about your "two way street." I realized that while I've been defending GU, I also admire Coz for his style, so it's really important to stand up and say that I'm still basically a trad climbing and always will be.
Ain't no dark side, but:
Oh well, a touch of grey
Kinda suits you anyway.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:43pm PT
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Slipknot wrote
"My point is that the position “rap bolting SFHD is good” is a position just as narrow, inflexible, and of no higher moral ground than the position “rap bolting on SFHD” is bad. Having the view that “every view is valid” is a view of its own and carries all the baggage that goes with holding a view."
I'm not placing a moral ground on it here. I think putting up X rated routes and rap bolted routes both have their admirable and negative qualities. Seeing all sides and having a tolerance is different that holding a Taliban attitude on one end of the equation.
Peace
karl
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Apr 30, 2008 - 07:44pm PT
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HK - work well done. I did the same.
PAWNED!
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jstan
climber
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Apr 30, 2008 - 08:14pm PT
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I am reminded of a W.C Field's story. A fellow addressed the crowd waiting to see him be hung saying,"I can't tell you how much I enjoy the attention you are giving me, but right now I would rather be in Philly."
I don't know why there would be a connection, but after telling this story I have read Field's never again got an invitation to perform in that city.
I doubt the battle for 2000 is over but, whatever.
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Sanjan
Boulder climber
CA
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Apr 30, 2008 - 08:42pm PT
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to put up a route like that on a wall with so much history of epics and tradition is silly .
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Apr 30, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
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to expound on K-man's point, Everybody on this thread needs to remember;
"if you plant ice,
you're gonna harvest wind,"
Jay-morethanjustatouchofgray-bro
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 30, 2008 - 10:10pm PT
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Midnight, on a carousel ride, reaching for the gold ring
down inside....
Never could reach it, just slipped away,
but I tried.....
Gone are the days, we stopped to decide,
where we should go, we just ride...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 30, 2008 - 10:50pm PT
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"I am reminded of a W.C Field's story. A fellow addressed the crowd waiting to see him be hung saying,"I can't tell you how much I enjoy the attention you are giving me, but right now I would rather be in Philly." "
Now there an example of the danger of using the rope top down!
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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Those are not bolted cracks. Those are bolts where the crack pinches down to knife blade size. Except one 50 ft. section on pitch 7. A perfect finger crack ( unbolted ) turns to a 10 in. slopey, way physical lie back. The back of the crack is rotten and wouldn't take gear anyway. And not deep enough to get into and off width. Really bad feet too.
You just have to grab slopey lie backs and go for it. Even with the 5.13 pitch higher, this pitch will shut down many. 5.12 A
wide physical, and way insecure.
I'm trying not to sound threatening here to Zack or anyone else.
But I'm a bit sick of hearing about the whole chopping thing. Be it on GU or anything else.
If you don't like the bolts on this route or any other, either climb something else or skip them. Then you can come back down to the valley and spray about how bad ass you are. Sad to see how much of OUR sport is full of spray. Espessially here in the valley.
Again, don't mean to sound threatening here, but I guess I am.
Before you start hacking away at the next bolt, think hard, and DO NOT let me find out about it. I'm really sick of it and many many many people that I know are too.
PEACE !
Sean.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:17pm PT
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If no one ever chopped a bolt, there would be no reason to think twice before drilling one.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:30pm PT
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I'm kinda sick of the asss kicking spray. You really going to kick some ones ass Sean? Are you issuing a Valley wide (it was world wide last time) Fatwa on chopping? Just saying... it sure is hard to feed your kids when you are in jail and/or paying restitution and legal fees to some toothless sap you lit up because he chopped some bolts. Get real and reel in *your* spray. If people are going to chop your route, or any route, so be it. You own the rock, and bolts, just as much as the guy who takes them out. You've done your part. Think of it as a catch and release project.
Drift: I'm all for the chopping of the Serenity Crack bolt..... as a side note. If it gets chopped, can the chopper count on a can of whoop-ass from you Sean? Not mamby pamby shiit either, but some solid blows to the control tower. Is this what it is coming to? Do you really have the stomach for it?
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Sean Jones
climber
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:31pm PT
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Clint,
Nice job on the photo of all the routes. Can't speak for the rest of them but as for ours, the lines are drawn very well.
Nice job upgrading the topo. It looks really good. The only thing off on it is the escape hatch on the s.face route. That actually hangs right above the 5.13 pitch on GU.
That was my fault on the original topo though. The s. face pitches need to be stretched out a bit to make the escape hatch end up just over the top of GU pitch 10.
Nice job and thanks !
Sean.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Boulderado
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:32pm PT
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Cheese and rice! If you don't recognize that there is beaucoup plenty of thought been given to this route (on both sides of the question)that was not engendered by Royal or Ken Nichols or any other instance of bolt chopping then you are not paying attention.
G'night, johnboy.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Apr 30, 2008 - 11:47pm PT
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I'm a homo
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