Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
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Reel it in, boys.
Kelly Clarkson? You're just feeding fuel to AB's fire.
And Matt, you should pull those.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Sending my best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.
And what about the a-hole who dropped her gear and didn't pony up to help replace. Weak.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
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Yeah, Sarah...
Strong, smart, a desert rat at heart, drawn to steep splitters
I called her a hottie in the first draft of the story.
Female editor removed the reference.
women...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
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That guy's [mr.cheapskate butterfingers]name is the one that should be plastered all over the interweb.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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The 'hellcat bitch', I believe is the nickname given the editor in question.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 01:44pm PT
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My experience is different.
Very good editor, smart and funny.
I'm just amused at a woman quickly downshifting the characterization, by a writer with direct experience, of another woman.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 17, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Hey Doug or Sean,
Maybe I missed it. Was the final thing done in a single push, bottom to top, or was just the upper half done in a push?
If so when do you intend to go back and do the whole thing in one bite? Maybe someone will beat you to that little plum?....
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SteveW
Trad climber
State of confusion
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Apr 17, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
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Sorry Clint, my bad. But I knew it was something
bad, and staph can be--loss of limbs, the flesh eating
bacteria. I in no means meant to misinform. . .
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 17, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
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The virtual campfire burns on and it grows late.
The ones who came in the beginning, have been drunk around the fire, eaten, sobered up and then drunk again. Who knows if somebody puked on their way to take a leak.
Some others might have returned from a climb to see the fire still burning and saddle up to get warm and share in the tales.
Later still, some guy calls out from the Rock and Ice tent and says keep it down!
Maybe our words get slurred before dawn breaks.
But we are bonded in our experience and community, working out the rough edges together, and seeing a common thread that's stronger than our differences.
I feel good about it all.
Peace
karl
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Tired Trad Tales
Trad climber
southern cal
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Apr 17, 2008 - 02:38pm PT
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a common thread or just another tired trad tale?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 17, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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I smell a rat....
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stinkeye
Gym climber
shytehole known as reno
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:12pm PT
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Someone should send this thread to the Guiness Book of World Records for the Worlds Largest Circle Jerk. This place blows...
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scuffy b
climber
up the coast from Woodson
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
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It's so big of you to dirty yourself enough to provide that
evaluation.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:40pm PT
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no doubt, need some disrespect in this thread now with the rni thing.
Though admittedly I'd like to take a shot at trying something on that face GU. Probably don't have a prayer, but wth.
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stinkeye
Gym climber
shytehole known as reno
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:47pm PT
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your welcome.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:49pm PT
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yea i win! post # 1553!!!!!!!
send me a prize please...
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scuffy b
climber
up the coast from Woodson
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Apr 17, 2008 - 03:50pm PT
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Did somebody thank you for something?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 17, 2008 - 04:29pm PT
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Hey Surivor,
Every move of the climb was done by Sean Jones on lead. I'm pretty sure Sarah Watson led most of it too, but I'm not certain about that.
It was redpointed in two stages. The bottom half, up to the bolt ladder, all trad, all pro set on lead.
Then came the weeks of uncertainty about how to proceed, the indecision, agonizing and doubt. I know some of you would like to just skip right over that part, because it doesn't fit your model, your hope to nail us with "just" taking the easy way out.
But pause for a moment of uncertainty in those shoes. They are ti-ight!
For us it was a pretty long, hard moment. Like weeks. There was no easy way out.
During that time, Sarah sprained her ankle carrying a huge load down from our camp. It was pretty bad. Balooned up big and black and blue. She spent a lot of time on Sean's couch. Bored and antsy and, in spite of solicitous attention from some of El Portal's finest, all she could think of was getting back up to her route. Some of us had to sit on her -- figuratively, of course -- pretty hard to keep her from hobbling up the Mist Trail. She went sooner than any medical advice would allow. But of course without insurance, there was a convenient lack of that to hold her back.
So Sarah got to basecamp in one push. Pretty amazing. And the next day, with the ankle heavily taped, she redpointed the upper half of the route with Sean, leading several pitches.
Gritty girl. Hats off to you, Sarah, for that. Awesome effort, under duress, and she pulled it off.
Hard face climbing was bad enough; I can't imagine twisting that ankle into foot jams.
The FA team had no ability, at that point, to do the entire climb in one push. We were all so impressed that Sarah could even finish the climb. Not Sean, not me, not Shawn Reeder the photogrpher -- no one involved even thought about pushing at that point for an all-the-way-through ascent from the ground.
We considered the FA complete.
All due respect to John Bachar and others who want to define this differently so they can underscore their -- not our -- view that this was, somehow, not a FA. You, John, brought hook drilling into the Park. Could be considered a taint from the venerable perspective of drilling on stance. I'm fine with it, it's now accepted, and I consider the Bachar-Yerian one of the great leaps forward in Yosemite climbing. A worthy follow on to your first free ascent of Astroman.
Our leap was a bigger one. So I'm not surprised that we are spending all this time hashing it out. I don't think the two-step FA is the central issue here.
I expect that there will very soon be a second ascent of Growing Up. Second because Sean and Sarah DID the first. And rapidly followed by ascents 3 through 8 -- then we will begin to hear confirmation that this superb terrain was indeed treated with decent respect, and that a proud line resulted. By then, I'm pretty sure that the raves about the climbing itself will begin to drown out all this fuss about how it was created.
From what I saw of the rock up there, I expect Growing Up to take its place as one of the great Yosemite climbs.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Apr 17, 2008 - 04:43pm PT
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It brings an interesting question/debate which has been going on a LONG time in this thread.
I mean, the route's there, no doubt. So, I guess it had an FA. However, FA aside, if I walked up to an established route with a partner, climbed the first half, then got stormed off and went back and rapped in, a few weeks later, to climb the second half.... I would not have climbed the route. I don't really know that I know anyone who would think I had. I certainly wouldn't feel as if I climbed the route.
Just my own thoughts on it, which are not meant to attempt to discredit anything/anyone. Not that they matter.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 17, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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Doug,
You wrote...
"I don't think the two-step FA is the central issue here."
I think you're right.
What underlies the ethical debates like these is not setting the clock backwards and undoing what has been done. There are no absolute rules in climbing. It is know for it's maverick ways. Growing Up, is an FA, like Piana and Skinner. They worked pitch by pitch, not a continuous ascent ground up onsight. That style is the goal, not the strict measure of every single climb to be done.
However, what is at issue is the precedent setting nature of a prolific climb on a prolific piece of stone using bolts. Can I now, with Growing Up, as my standard, go into HD and top down bolt a climb so long as I can still redpoint it? If I can't redpoint it, then will people stay off it til I can? I'm figuring I get at least a couple weeks. I'm not trying to be a hard ass at all, I've rap bolted stuff, I've ground up stuff. But I can't help but wonder if one precedent leads to another precedent creating a new force of history over time, such that we end up with something like where the classic cracks in Chamonix get bolted so they are safe. (I'm assuming the bolting done top down is done in a sport fashion, and not deliberately run out. If so, that would be a crime, but that's a side issue and speculative on my part.
Thought experiment- Why not set a series of anchors and top rope from the top downward? Downward bound? Just some thoughts. Thx for listening.
Best,
M
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