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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2005 - 08:52pm PT
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So in true reality the Hubers never climbed Zodiac in what was that world record time? Two hours and something minutes if one takes into account all those days preplanned, prefixed, and pre-rehearsed. This was spread out over the years to accomplish the present world record clock time on the Zodiac.
Now, when someone goes and does it on-sight in a day this is really a true record, like Ammon and Chris Mac just did on the Never Neverland just recently.
Thus which is the purer speed ascent? I believe Ammon and Chris. We never take anything away from the Huber world record time either for that is what it took to achieve their end. We only want to see the truth in the actual endeavor.
Thus I believe this was the real core of the argument?
Am I wrong?
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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May 23, 2005 - 09:04pm PT
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I think you got it right Werner. Even after a team has done a wall one time, if all things are equal it is safe to assume that the subsequent ascent by the same team would be faster. I am confused because if they did infact climb a different line for much of the route, then perhaps it is safe to say that they did a different route than Zodiac. Still out of this world impressive, but not Zodiac.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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May 23, 2005 - 09:35pm PT
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Ammon, fixed the picture... was fine on my other computer, which also posts as my other name.
Ammon, biggest problem with what you guys do... is lacking time to swill! I don't think I will ever set any records because I would still bring at least hard liquor on climbs.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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May 24, 2005 - 10:56am PT
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If following the exact original line is the rule for an FFA, seems like no route on the Cap has been freed. But it seems like a line was crossed with the free NA, which started going everywhere. No, that was called something else. Yeah, I'm confused now too. Why's it still called Zodiac instead of Eurorider or Teutonic Heart or sumthin?
Anyhoo, free Zodiac avoids like half the route. That ain't Zodiac. I will say this, tho. Up there last August I was looking at all the chalk all over the route. (Miller's chalk?) Yikes. That's all I'm saying. Goddamn.
Flyin Brian, from what I heard about him, always seemed more like Bridwell than nearly anybody we got now. Nasty side but can back it up on the rock. And I'm trying to figure out the Golden Piton line. Does Brian McCray really give a rat's ass about a f*#king Golden Piton? I'll give him a Platinum Piton right now! I thought about that line a lot, cuz it seemed so whiny (riding the whaaambulance--haahahahah!) and was maybe thinking that was kind of like Bridwell too: seeming simultaneously not to give a sh#t at all and to care very deeply about petty things. Could be wrong.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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May 24, 2005 - 11:05am PT
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Whoa, I forgot my one speedclimbing story. I mean, efficient climbing story.
Get up the Salathe in three days with my buddy Rhino back in '98 or so. I'm with some people and we all end up at Hansie Florine's Yosemite West pad somehow. Hans gives the little tour, which includes an El Cap topo poster on his wall. It has all these handwritten notations by Hans on various routes, like: Me and Coward, 5:28. And Anker/Herson, 7:51. Pretty cool. I'm standing around thinking maybe I can snake something of Hans's and hawk it later on ebay or something.
But then this dude I'm with goes, "Hey, Ryan here just climbed the Salathe."
Hans says, "Oh, yeah?" Followed by probably his favorite question, "How fast?"
I'm all, "Uh, three days."
And check this out, all of a sudden Hans Florine has a pen out and he's frickin writing at the top of the Salathe: Ryan/Ryan, 72 hours.
hahahaahahahahahahahahaha!
Seventy two hours up the Cap. Top that ya sloths!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 24, 2005 - 01:44pm PT
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That's one of the really cool things about Hans...If you do something that is challenging and worthwhile for yourself, then he'll give you big kudos same as if you were an ultra-mega-studly stud.
I rented a room from him in said Yosemite West abode in 2002. The housemates had a big range of skill. He was always encouraging everyone to get out and do something cool...whether that was dare to take the sharp end on a 5.6, if that represented a real challenge for someone, or break a coveted "speed" record. There was a really positive/encouraging energy in the house to just go try hard and have fun.
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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May 24, 2005 - 05:18pm PT
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"Seventy two hours up the Cap. Top that ya sloths!"
15 days on Muir.
9 days on Tempest.
7 days on Windhorse (a Grade V)
7 days on an ascent of Whitney East Face this last summer (not including ferrying loads to the base)
7 days circumnavigating Mt. Dickey, and never even reaching the summit by the easiest route.
2 years (and counting) on certain unfinished projects in the Sierra.
75+ unplanned bivies and counting...
Just a perspective from life in the slow lane.
Brutus, who always has a headlamp in the chalkbag and ensolite and space bag in the pack,
Old Climbers' Home
Oakland, California
"I am not a fast climber, I am not a slow climber. I am a half-fast climber."
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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May 24, 2005 - 08:28pm PT
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75+ unplanned bivies and counting...
that's gotta be some sort of hard-man measuring stick, no?
dang...
not to mention the true hardship- that's 75 nights on climbing trips that you are not drinking cold beerz!
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Fly'n Brian
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas
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May 30, 2005 - 01:47am PT
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hey guys,
i just checked in to see what's happening with this topic. i also just got done reading the golden piton speed climbing award in the mag. i'll say straight up that what started this whole thread was that ammon and i feel sleighted and disrespected by the decision to give the award to the huber's for zodiac. bottom line.
i couldn't believe the slander at the start of the page referring to how sick of time reports the people at climbing mag have recieved over the years and how they won't have to report anymore speed times on el cap because what the huber's did was so impressive.
i'll have to say i've never sent any climbing times on anything to anyone except hans and really don't know who has. if it's so rediculous to have a speed record why is the huber's zodiac time impressive? why was the fod of the nose climbing news? why is the fod of plastic surgery disaster not climbing news?
i like werner's approah and posts. i continually try to get myself back to the place where my personal climbing experience is the most important. that is why i do not pursue media exposure. i want climbing to be a much deeper and fulfilling experience than being showcased in glamour magazine. i've got to say it's a bit difficult when numerous climbers around me are recieving money and support for debatedly comparable climbing endeavors.
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Fly'n Brian
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas
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May 30, 2005 - 02:22am PT
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well i missed a few posts before i wrote the last bit of dribble. who is this dudley guy? thanks to those who tried to set that spraycan straight. i don't want to expose my sensitivity TOO much anymore so i'll just have to tell dudley, (you're quite uninformed and i apologize for dispelling my respected role model status)
see ammon, wasn't that nice! why do you think i'm abrasive?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2005 - 11:13am PT
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Ok Brian, maybe abbrasive wasn't the right word.
Synonyms are everything from rude to rough, to uncompromising.
How about SALTY? Haa HAAaa haa!!!
Cheers!
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Burt
climber
Sin City
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May 31, 2005 - 01:15pm PT
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Sorry Ammon and Brian, I just have to comment. Who the f*#k does dudley think he is? Brian is the only climber that climbs at the caliber that he does and does not toot his own horn. But I understand his frustrations. He has been passed up for grants, sponsorships, and all of the other benifits that "pro" climbers are getting that can hardly lead without getting the shakes. I mean come on, the Great Trango in a push style ascent, or to climb a f*#king decent gully on the Mooses Tooth and call it the most rad thing in the world? What would you like to read about? I have spent many nights in a ledge, hanging in a harness, or stuck out on lead (for way too long on a push ascent) with Brian and he has nothing but positive and encoucouraging words for me. I have seen some of the most amazing feats done on some of the raddest routes around. (all of his big wall routes are unreapeated until just a few months ago when Ammon just sent Saurons Eye nice send Ammon!) I brought Jim Bridwell home from Mesquite, nv on long night and he had nothing but the upmost respect for Brian. He said that the Bears Tooth went down because Brian was on his team. His first time ever climbing ice was on the sharp end 5000 f*#king thousand feet up the Bears Tooth on one of Alaska's "Last Great Problems" So tell me again dudley, where do you get your info? I could go on forever just about the climbing that we have done together (which is 1% of the climbing that he has done) but I will leave that for my memories. I had bad climbing accident june 23 2004, I broke my back, legs, feet, pelvis, all that good stuff, Brian was by myside everyday for the first 2 weeks that I was in ICU and he was there almost everyday after that. I owe him my unbeliveible recovery, my spirits while being down, I owe him my life. So sorry if this sounds like a gay love poem but you hit a cord with me. So F*#k off dudley you don't know what the f*#k you are talking about.
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
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Burt
Have you recovered or are you still rehabilitating your body? Please feel no offense I’m truly interested after such a serious injury.
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Burt
climber
Sin City
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May 31, 2005 - 01:52pm PT
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My recovery was nothing short of a miricle as my doctor put it. They told me that I wouldn't walk until Dec. 25th, 6 months after my surgery. (I broke L1, L2, L3 which are now fused) and I started walking on my 29th day. I went climbing for the first time 3 months after (still tr 5.10!) and did my first lead that same day! I was climbing strong and I really just forgot that it happened then I was t-boned by a lady doing 50 mph which started my recovery all over again. I am doing better but I have lost some fight but I'll get there again. I still have problems with my feet (broke both of them) and my back isn't as strong as it used to be (no more 150 lbs haulbags!) But I am doing good. thanks for asking.
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Burt
climber
Sin City
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May 31, 2005 - 01:55pm PT
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he is salty huh Ammon! Ha!
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2005 - 02:00pm PT
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Wow! good luck towards your future health, Burt.
I remember when Mark Klemens hurt his back and he could barely walk 30 meters without serious pain many years ago. He hasn't recovered since. I felt terrible knowing how much he valued being able to be active and having that loss.
Best wishes, Werner
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2005 - 02:41pm PT
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Yes, salty.
As in: brackish - not appealing to the taste.
Personally, I like a ton of salt. Good to hear you're doing better Burt.
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no_one
Big Wall climber
Hurricane, Utah
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Hey Ammon,
Nice discussion! I'm goin for the Muir Wall and will be in the Valley for my first time on June 12th. It would be sweet to see you again and obsorbe some of that GO FAST (sorry, I mean GO EFFICIENT)energy! You and Brian Keep it up! What you guys are doing deffinatly feeds "ME" more than stuff Climbing magazine like to print! If we don't catch up in the Valley, get ahold of me next time you come to ZION. I've done a few FA's in the park and around the park I'd like to BRAG about, HAHAHA!
See Ya!
Steve (in Hurricane)
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Fly'n Brian
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas
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you guys are turning me into a cyber geek!
i checked this post again. thanks for the backup burt!
i'm glad no one is psyched and ammon............
well, you can call me whatever you want. you still gotta climb with me!
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clustiere
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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BooOIIING, FFFFFFAST. JEDI you readdy the three big stones in three years, errr how about three weeks?????????
Have funb all you go getters, fast means more and in the theme of capitolism more is better, get some hippies get some.
Well any way have fun, and yes efficient is relative to the party, so stive to be your best and you will be rewarded graciously. Another half ass,
Crochie
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