Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 11, 2005 - 05:28pm PT
|
There are a lot of people who have this misconception of speedclimbing. I think there are actually two different approaches to the madness.
On one hand you have guys like Hans (no disrespect) who are frantically climbing when they are going for records. They run-it-out, cut corners and yell a lot at their partners.
On the other hand, there are guys like Bridwell, Westbay and Long who started the whole thing with the FOD of the Nose. Later, Gerberding, Stowe and McCray (just to name a few) stepped up to the plate, taking their approach to a totally different level.
They pick hard/moderate aid routes, usually routes that they have never been on. They avoid rehearsing a route until it gets whipped into submission having it so dialed they’re shaving seconds off their previous time.
To me, this takes ALL the adventure away from the climb and spoils the true greatness of ascending stone in an efficient manner.
If you’ve ever had the opportunity to watch an “efficient-climber” you will notice they are NOT in a hurry at all. They are usually calm and collective. Not cutting corners and not in such a hurry they are thrashing around, damaging the rock in the process.
For the efficient-climber, the only difference between camping, or trying a route in a day, is that they leave all of their bivy gear on the ground. They bring less water and food, making them VERY committed. They’re not sure what the outcome is, because they have never been on the route before.
Well, these are just a few of my thoughts this afternoon. I think most of you would agree that efficient-climbing is a better style of ascending stone than speedclimbing.
After all, why would you spend multiple days on a route when you can do it in one?
Thoughts?
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 05:45pm PT
|
cool, interesting Ammon. I remember puting back some Sierra Nevadas with you in the meadow once...and you humbly told me that you just finished a 1 day of some sick A5 Klaus route...
...and I was like, "wow, how the heck do you climb A5 (or A4 whatever) FAST??? like isn't that sketchy?"
and you were like..."well, we slow down a little on those pitches."
my impression being that slow down a little means something like 1 or 2 hours. which on A4 is hard for me to comprehend, but it's all relative I guess.
I have only done a couple of walls-with-out-a-bivi, and have to say it was really fun. it adds a whole new element and feel to the climb. Getting to the top...eventually, isn't the only goal. You're also trying to beat the sun, the moon, or whatever time you have set for yourself. just spices up the whole experience.
You reach a point at sometime after many hours where it all becomes very surreal and takes on this sort-of natral high. i would compare it with the "runners high" that people describe after running long distances (only I get it after about 5 miles). the amount of focus required to keep moving and stay safe is super intense.
you get to elimante one of the worsts parts of standard style climbing...carrying that fk'ing pig.
but the biggest plus for me is that I can still go climb a wall in a weekend, and I think this might be the main reason I do more of it.
the long drive home afterward is much more scary for me then the climb. when Red-Bull no longer works you know things are gettin' dicey.
|
|
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2005 - 06:04pm PT
|
Haa haa, yep.... I remember Lambone. You guys just got off the WFLT, huh?
Keep on sending, man!!! Maybe we can rope up together somtime this year.... go for a route that nobody has tried to do in a day.
My favorite!!!
Cheers-
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:15pm PT
|
yeah, great day it was...we were all sittin' there in a sleep deprived funk watching those crazy bastards rappelin' the Dawn Wall.
that wall was my first IAD. we were hella slow, but it was my partners first wall, so I was just psyched we pulled it off. climing under that moonlight was unreal...
climbing with you would be a blast, I better start training...
|
|
Max
Social climber
huff 218
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:22pm PT
|
I agree completely Ammon. Though I revere such ascents as the Huber's sub 2hr sprint of Zodiac (pretty fun to watch from the meadow) and Han's frantic time chasing, they aren't the purest styles of "speed" climbing. Onsighting, as in any form of climbing, significantly increases the commitment and noteworthiness of an ascent.
When I first started climbing walls I worked for Satan (a.k.a. YCS) and had no choice but to get it done quickly. Since I had very little experience I failed miserably at first. Even when I finally succeeded I narrowly escaped death by pitch black descent. Though I suffered greatly these adventures were well worth the experience I gained. I got up about a half dozen walls that fall and never dealt with the horror of hauling and shitting in bags. I even managed to eke my way up Zodiac in a grueling 26+ hour push. I climbed a few routes in more conventional style the next season, tackling the moderate classics for lack of a ledge (when are those gonna get cheaper??) and I definitely noticed a lack of excitement on those trips. It's just too much damn work.
Since then I haven't mustered the motivation to go for an "efficient" style climb, preffering instead the relative ease of free climbing and bouldering and, well, hanging out. My suffering quota was filled for a while. But I still dream of busting out some more bivi-less routes in the future, and, well, hopefully I can recruit Ammon, so he can do the hard stuff...
Max
|
|
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2005 - 06:24pm PT
|
Haaa, I think what impressed me the most was that you were getting ready to drive home after NO sleep. You said you had a 10 hour drive ahead of you.
I just looked at you like you were a crazed man on a mission and said: "Be careful".... or something along those lines.
Yep, start training and let's start planning!!!
Cheers-
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:25pm PT
|
I think most of you would agree that efficient-climbing is a better style of ascending stone than speedclimbing.
i am not sure it was your intention, but it seems to me that there is no need to compare one style to another in order to demonstrate how great the one style is...
few would argue that a hard and unknown route in a push is more adventurous that chucking another lap on a route you know really well, but that doesn't mean that being able to chuck said lap on a hill like el cap in 2 or 2-1/2 hours is anything to shake a stick at either.
what's better style-
FS of astroman or thre rostrum, or trying to get your 1st 11a onsight?
bouldering v7, or sending your 1st 10b?
car to car on RA in sub 2hrs, or 6 beers in 3 hours in the meadow?
answer key:
they are all trick questions
he who has the most fun w/out ruining it for anyone else has the best style, period.
my 2 cents
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:27pm PT
|
OK man,
Anyone who has clumb with me knows I'm f*ckin slow on the aid pitches. So how does one increase this efficiency? Tips appreciated. I'm tired of pissing people off, I even bore myself.
|
|
bigwalling
climber
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:31pm PT
|
I watched Ammon do the first 2 pitches of the Straw and learned a lot just from that! He didn't look like he was climbing fast at all, just kept moving and was real smooth. After that I changed the way I aided and cut mass amounts of time off my previous speed. I look forward to pushing my skills this summer on pushes! I'll be around from june to september if anyone wants to climb.
|
|
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2005 - 06:35pm PT
|
Hey Max,
How are you bro? Yeah, you're right about the comparison and it was not my intention that one is "better" than the other. My argument is that one is more "adventurous" than the other.
It's kinda like when I was trying to go for the Yosemite Falls Trail record. It was fun trying to shave time off and it was getting me in really good shape. But, after a while it got boring and I just couldn't shave the ten minutes that was needed for the record.
I wasn't trying to bash the "speedclimbers" approach either. Those guys climb at a totally different level than me and I have a ton of respect for their boldness.
Yep Max, we WILL rope up together soon. You can have the run-out free climbing and I'll take the hard aid. We should make a good team.
Cheers-
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:37pm PT
|
"Haaa, I think what impressed me the most was that you were getting ready to drive home after NO sleep. You said you had a 10 hour drive ahead of you.
I just looked at you like you were a crazed man on a mission and said: "Be careful".... or something along those lines."
dude I almost died that night...no sh#t. funny thing is that after 400 miles, I almost ate it on Main street in my hometown at 2am....less than 10 blocks from my house, I woke up in the left lane headed straight for a parked car. whew...close one. that would have been the end of my weekend wall epics....my wife would see to that. actually if she reads this thread it might be the end!
we'll be in touch man, thx for the offer. :-)
|
|
bigwalling
climber
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 06:39pm PT
|
well lambone, now i am kinda happy i did not go! I was kinda pissed at mommy and daddy for saying... NO! I know i would have driven off the road for sure!
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 07:14pm PT
|
you missed out bro...talk your folks into it and lets go. you can crash at my place for a night afterward.
|
|
bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 07:46pm PT
|
I want to climb something fast like that id be awsome not the Nose though or NWF thats just lame but like Skull queen or Southern Man or Wet denim daydream or my ultimate top of the wishlist SUNKIST holy sh#t thatd be sweet
Klaus hehe....your just a little too bad ass.
~TY~
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 07:50pm PT
|
TY- did Skull Queen this fall. We actually fixed to dinner...but whatever those are lame pitches anyway. It was fun, super mellow. 'send it solo IAD.
|
|
alik
Big Wall climber
edmonton
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 07:57pm PT
|
I hear ya Ammon. climbing an unknown route is always more fun and climbing an unknown wall route fast is even better. When speedclimbing a wall you haven't done before you get all the usual challenges of onsighting a wall, such as routefinding and dealing with the unique difficulties that every aid pitch has, but with the added challenge of climbing quickly and efficiently. Also the greater level of commitment really appeals to me.
The stuff that hans and the hubers have done still deserves respect though. Its just another style of climbing. not neccessarily better or worse than "efficient climbing.
|
|
alik
Big Wall climber
edmonton
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 08:09pm PT
|
hey Ty, what do you have against doing RNWF or the Nose. those are some of my favorite climbs in the valley. although RNWF isn't really a wall, more of a long free climb with a few aid moves here and there.
|
|
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2005 - 08:34pm PT
|
Klaus,
Haa haa, I would expect such a comment coming from you. Mr. First Ascent, himself.....
Not everyone is as fortunate as you were/are with their ticklist of FA's.
Yep, FA's are about as adventurous as it gets. Trying to do the second ascent in a day is the next best thing.
Cheers-
|
|
bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 08:59pm PT
|
im sorry i didnt make it clear about the nose and NWF they are indeed fine routes but im talking about trying to break the speed record on them ...like the battle over the records on just those routes. I still wanna do them for sure.
~TY~
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 11, 2005 - 09:40pm PT
|
I don’t get it Ammon, I ‘ve seen all types of ascents and everything you’ve mentioned and the bottom line that comes to my conclusion is the individual experience. All these folks are having the time of their lives…..both good or bad, and everything in between. The sense of adventure doesn’t seem diminished to me.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!