Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ammon
Big Wall climber
The Mountains
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 9, 2004 - 11:33pm PT
|
I climbed this fine route for the second time this season.
One thing that really bothered me is the rivets that "someone" installed on the 5.10r pitch, getting up to the "Bay of Pigs". There was also some chicken rivets near some of the expanding flakes a little higher on the route.
Now, I know exactly "who" installed these but that's not the reason for this post. In fact, I've been emailing "that" person and it seems they quit the conversation as soon as it got uncomfortable for "him".
So, any of you who are thinking of doing the route this/next year should bring a patch kit. I would love to see the pitch turn back into the run-out, factor2-fest, gripping pitch that I remember it being.
BTW- It's not really hard to figure out who soloed the route in the last few years..... this person would have NEVER been able to free it...... let alone rope-solo-free it. I'm wondering what he was even thinking by going up there.... knowing he can't climb out of his aiders.
Yeah, yeah.... I know.... lot's of pitches on the route has had chicken rivets/bolts added. But, this is one of the pitches that makes the route so badass!!
Cheers, Ammon
|
|
Rockcandy
Ice climber
Santa Clarita, CA
|
|
By chance, would this same person claim to have "retired from free climbing"?
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 12:04am PT
|
Oh man, just when all the PtPP hate threads disappeared
|
|
TheMaestro
Big Wall climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 11:22am PT
|
I think NeverSurfed is finally starting to catch on........What Ammon wrote about the placements of the chix bolts has pete's dirty laundry written all over it.
Eli
|
|
atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 01:47pm PT
|
sad... a completely sackless act. Anyone ever hear the responsible person spray about having "climbed" the route? Write a TR and omit this info?
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 02:07pm PT
|
I recall coming nose-to-nose with a hole in some 5.9 squeezer on the Salathe, somewhere in the middle below the Ear, that I was managing just fine in my Boulders. should we start a list?
|
|
nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 02:23pm PT
|
You know what list I need... I need a list of the routes pee-on-pete has not gone and brought down to his level up. I guess I better figure out what routes on my ticklist need to be done (in short order) before he gets to them to piss all over them.
EDIT: I've modified the above post to 1) not directly trash pete 2) remove the route I plan on doing (just in case pee-boy happens to read).
I hate the thought of going through his ego-feeding trip reports to make my list. Anyone know if he's done the route I'm interested in (now deleted)?
|
|
thebleeder
Trad climber
chosstown
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 02:23pm PT
|
it's really lame when you consider that there's a 5.8(?) light duty variation to the right of the scary 5.10 pitch that i know several people have used.
i wonder if he left his brushstrokes on jolly roger?
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 03:09pm PT
|
See, that's WTF I'm what I'm talking about. It turns my stomach to see his drivel talking about this route. This quote from Pisshead Pete in his rc.n00b route description is a prime example:
"Bring free climbing shoes for the crumbling 5.10 run out - Ammon and I agree it felt like 5.11x to us! Your wrists will be aching from all the nailing you'll do by the time you summit..."
Maybe your wrists were aching from drilling shithead.
|
|
TheMaestro
Big Wall climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 03:26pm PT
|
Not to start another thread on pete, but this is just another example of how pete's 'better way' is a selfish f*cked up way of doing ascents. He alone has a tremendously high impact on El Cap. Especially when he goes off and defaces the rock for no apparent reason. I mean seriously, how many more lines is he going to f*ck up? Still would like to hear of his own account of what happened up on The Muir.........
|
|
Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 03:46pm PT
|
If I badmouth Pete can I be a Yosemite Rock Policemen too?? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t agree with the style in which he supposedly climbs, but I am endlessly entertained by the continued righteous indignation of the self-appointed protectors of Yosemite. As for me, I will continue to pursue “gumby” routes well within my abilities, and use ST Forum for pure entertainmenmt.
|
|
David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 03:48pm PT
|
Well said Cracko. That's sort of what was going through my mind. See ya on the gumby routes.
In defense of Ammon and Mike though...I think their intent was more to simply encourage someone to bring a patch kit on a future ascent than just flame Pete who may or may not be the responsible party.
|
|
dufas
Trad climber
san francisco
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 03:50pm PT
|
holy shit! someone with perspective. Cracko, you're done. You'll have to leave now.
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2004 - 04:02pm PT
|
not that i ever plan to be one of them, but w/out the "self-appointed protectors of Yosemite", we would be left w/ exactly what?
at least it ain't the mythical boulder canyon bolt wars, right?
seems like if you were aiding up a route and had to add something that you knew you ought not to add, you could just rap back down and clean it up, then jug and be on your way, so why wouldn't someone (someone who bothered to bring rivets on an established route in the 1st place) do that sort of thing?
i have never placed or chopped anything and have no plans to start, but wouldn't it be easier to pull it out than to stick it in there in the 1st place? just curious.
|
|
TheMaestro
Big Wall climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 04:20pm PT
|
Cracko,
It isn't about being wall police. It is a question of ethics and practices which is overly destrucitve to the rock. As climbers, we know the importance of keeping the integrity of the route as close to the natural state as possible so all can share a similar experience. Aid climbing is an exception though given the nailing defaces the rock. But when a section can go clean, has gone clean, should stay clean. Putting in a line of chix bolts because you are scared when it has gone clean is should not be tolerated.
|
|
Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 05:19pm PT
|
Maestro,
I agree with you 100 %, and practice this ethic in my own climbing. I guess it comes down to what you mean by tolerate. Because once the damage is done, its already been tolerated! Then we’re left trying to figure out how to “fix” it while hopefully adhering to our own “No Destruction to the Rock” ethic. And then I’m still not completely convinced that a first ascentionist has the absolute right to determine the nature of a route for all future parties. I can tell you that on the few walls I have done in Yosemite, I have been very thankful for the work done by ASCA. And, if I do encounter “chix” bolts on a climb, I always have the choice of using them or not using them, along with all the other fixed crap. And as for Pete, I think a different approach might be more effective, like walking your own talk and stop the “comical” but ineffective “piling on”! Hey, can I just call you Maestro, or do I have to call you The Maestro? That Seinfeld episode is playing in my head and if I have to call you The Maestro I’m gonna get right back into my self-righteous rant!
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 07:03pm PT
|
I think it's Ok to question anybody's tactics that affect the stone. Certainly, some of the stuff Pete's done is open to discussion. (like bringing firewood and having a campfire in the alcove below El Cap spire.)
There is another aspect to Pete flaming that goes over the top. I call it "Squirrel Rage."
"Squirrel Rage is a Yosemite tradition. It goes like this, Nobody is supposed to feed the Squirrels in the park, everybody knows some of the reasons. Many of the folks living in the park have repressed anger looking for an outlet. So when some locals see a tourist feeding a squirrel, it's not unheard of for them to lay into them like they were axe-murdering senior citizens.
Moral: when somebody or something has become a socially acceptable target of attack, then folks with excess negativity take turns unloading.
I'm not saying some Pete flames weren't warranted, but different folks have different motives. Some folks have personal issues, and for others, it's just about some guy they're reading about on the net.
Chicken Rivets do sound like a fried mini-nugget from CrackDonalds.
Peace
karl
|
|
NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
|
|
|
Dec 10, 2004 - 08:10pm PT
|
Is that you "The"? I didn't recognize you since you've extracted you cranium from your colon.
(That's just my way of saying for that the first, and probably last, time I agree with you.)
|
|
Burt
climber
Sin City
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2004 - 01:08am PT
|
"seems like if you were aiding up a route and had to add something that you knew you ought not to add, you could just rap back down and clean it up, then jug and be on your way, so why wouldn't someone (someone who bothered to bring rivets on an established route in the 1st place) do that sort of thing? "
This kinda bugged me. If we start drilling chicken bolts on lead then just rap down a chop them, man we are opening a can of worms that may never close again. Anybody who has lead hard aid, or hard scary free has wanted to drill (unless you are superman like Mr. McNeely Ha! love ya bro! How's Austin?) But being able to master the ability to push on when the climbing is bleak is an art that takes time. So if you need to take a drill leave in the very bottom of the haulbag, make sure it is a mother fer to get out, like ten freakin minutes so you have to really think about what you are about to do. There is no shame in bailing and coming back when you get the experience.
Burt
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2004 - 02:01am PT
|
with respect, that wasn't the spirit i'd intended it with, i just meant that if it has to happen (according to someone, and for some reason of that someone alone), at least they might make the effort to clean up after themselves.
in other cases i have heard of parties retreating to ask the permisssion of the FA party to drill.
honestly, i am not clear why it's ok to haul a bolt kit at all!
if the ethic were more straight forward and it were no shame to bail, wouldn't that be a no-no in the first place?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!