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Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
Yes Morgan

This automation of war will make things safer for us as long as we fight third world powers without this kind of technology.

The world keeps moving though and soon tech will be the provence of terrorists who can concoct biological weapons and sneak them anywhere. We better grow up in diplomacy both here and in other countries so we don't inflict these great powers on each other for much longer.

As the technology of death becomes more powerful and stealthy, it changes the equation in unexpected ways. When guns became ubiquitous, martial arts stopped becoming very effective for defense. Someday Seals will be up against trickier threats than IEDs.

Humanity must change sooner than later or we're hosed. Seems like it could go either way at this point.

peace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2009 - 08:13pm PT
Bluering, interesting stuff about the drones find their targets from

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/predator-drone


"..New information is coming to light about how the US military has been directing their bombing attacks by unmanned drone aircrafts via small microchip beacons. These microchips, planted by hand by spies around the homes or meeting places of Al-Qaeda agents, send signals identifying targets for destruction, much like laser designators for smart bombs.

One of the most difficult aspects in the war being conducted in Pakistan is obtaining accurate, real-time intelligence, accessing the region, and ultimately attacking the threat. However, in the remote and mountainous regions of Waziristan and the Swat Valley in Pakistan, populated by factious tribes that may or may not be housing Al-Qaeda operatives, this has proven difficult. Over the past several years the US military has launched many missile attacks by the drone aircrafts, which have solved the problem of the access and the attack. The microchips, called “parthai” by locals, meaning “metal device” in Pashto, have solved the issue of intelligence. The chips are placed by local tribesmen, who are paid by the CIA and who have a more intimate knowledge of the community and targets."

The weird thing is that military is hardly involved in acquiring the targets or even using the drones. It's the CIA and Private industry! from

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=8692

" From a secret division at its North Carolina headquarters, the company formerly known as Blackwater has assumed a role in Washington’s most important counterterrorism program: the use of remotely piloted drones to kill Al Qaeda’s leaders, according to government officials and current and former employees.

The division’s operations are carried out at hidden bases in Pakistan and Afghanistan, where the company’s contractors assemble and load Hellfire missiles and 500-pound laser-guided bombs on remotely piloted Predator aircraft, work previously performed by employees of the Central Intelligence Agency. They also provide security at the covert bases, the officials said.

The role of the company in the Predator program highlights the degree to which the CIA now depends on outside contractors to perform some of the agency’s most important assignments. And it illustrates the resilience of Blackwater, now known as Xe (pronounced Zee) Services, though most people in and outside the company still refer to it as Blackwater. It has grown through government work, even as it attracted criticism and allegations of brutality in Iraq..."

Peace

Karl

Edit, Interesting debate on drones in a conservative rag

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/sep/01/00016/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 11:46am PT
Yeah, Karl, I've heard that too. About the small chips getting placed by 'spies'.

The CIA has full permission from the Paks to operate a drone base in their borders. The whole Pak gov't response that we're invading their borders illegally is just for internal consumption. They Paks actually want us to give them drones but we said, "nah', we'll operate them, just give us a base in country.

The story's out there, you just gotta look for it. The CIA dudes can't even leave their base or be seen for obvious reasons. Whitey in Pakiland raises suspicion.

Bottom line - we're getting it done with Pakistan. 3 successful strikes in 2 weeks. We just need to get more of our guys on the AFPak border to prevent the rats from abandoning the Pak ship.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Dec 12, 2009 - 12:44pm PT
Big problems associated with those chips. They can be moved.


The US first used a common IR laser light to spotlight buildings that they wanted a smart bomb to hit. Then we blasted a Chinese Embassy. "Accidentally"


I fully believe that they strike was the result of a counter by the Iraqis. They either had access to a captured US laser, or they made one from radio shack components to spotlight the embassy. The bombs locked on the brightest coherent beam in the area of the right color. It wasn't hard using ground lasers to arrange for an overwhelming beam to be created.

We changed our tactics for a while just after that. Then we made the lasers modulate a tone, and the receivers on the bombs seek that tone. The old system was too simple and open to spoofing.


The hand placed beacons share this flaw. If you can spot it and move it to a place more of your choosing, you can use the opponents bombs to hit what you want. And anybody with decent technology will jam that in a real war, anyway. Jammers are way lot easier to make than the bombs beacons, to anybody with some skills. None of that stuff will be quite as effective against real targets in the field against a high tech opponent. They will be reserved for use against civilian targets.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 12, 2009 - 02:34pm PT
Hey, I have a former Navy SEAL I would like to celebrate!


Here is a new tv series with Jesse Ventura former Navy SEAL, pro-wrestler, and former Governor of Minnesota. This is very well done:

Conspiracy Theory: 911 Episode 2 part1/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8834&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part1_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

2/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8835&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part2_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

3/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8836&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part3_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

4/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8837&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part4_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

5/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8838&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part5_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

6/6
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8839&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part_6_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879


This series with Jesse V. is really good. Well done, and new information is revealed that I hadn't heard before.

Now here is a real hero. Talking truth to power.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 12, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
You aren't even in the right country Rox.





The Chinese embassy bombing was in the Balkans.

The laser designator was in the plane.

The mistake was mixing up two very similar buildings a block apart on some satellite photos.

This all happened during Clinton's "Janitor assassination campaign"

(We only bombed buildings in the middle of the night)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 03:07pm PT
Klimmer, maybe you could start a new conspiracy thread or something....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 12, 2009 - 03:31pm PT
Bluering wrote

"Bottom line - we're getting it done with Pakistan. 3 successful strikes in 2 weeks. We just need to get more of our guys on the AFPak border to prevent the rats from abandoning the Pak ship."

I hear it is true that many Al Queda are being killed in Pakistan. Let's hope the outcome is positive. Why the question?

Gained: Poor and Isolated guys in the Pak Hinterland are being killed. How effective are they really able to be in Al Queda? It doesn't seem to be slowing the Taliban any. They got little money or way to come west right? How big a threat are these guys to anybody?

Lost: the large Pakistani population, armed with Nukes, is offended that the US is bombing within their borders. This could potentially weaken the government and put serous military and nuclear assests in militant Islamic hands. Even larger areas of Pakistan like Swat were in militant hands earlier in the year. Wassup? Shakey situation

Peace

Karl
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
Read some of the polling of DAWN news, a PAK website....
Nohea

Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
Dec 12, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
I teach at a school where 65% of the students come from military families mostly from the Air Force, Navy and Army. I thank them at each parent teacher meeting and let them know how proud I am to be teacher of their child.
Once I worked out with a SEAL for about a year, biking, swimming, running. A tough guy to keep up with, He never whined and was always a hard charger.

Thank you to all those serving the Country!

Aloha,
will
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 09:28am PT
Well it's nice to see some Congressmen have taken this issue up.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34819
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Dec 14, 2009 - 10:20am PT
I was stationed in the Army in Pusan Korea 74-76. I went on a weekend outing to, I think, either Masan or Chinhae. When traveling as an serviceman, there is always a free space to stay at any military base, if they have room. I happened to put up with a platoon of SEAL's that were there on a training mission for the Korean Navy's version of the SEAL's. Needless to say, I have never felt so intimidated being around a such a group of world class athletic guys.

They did everything together and after dinner they invited me to go out drinking with them at a local bar that evening. I was sitting with the officer in charge of their platoon (whatever the Navy's equivalent of a lieutenant is) drinking and listening to the group's general noise level increase with each round. Finally, one of the group jumped up on the bar, whipped out his Johnson, and proceeded to relieve himself, with the sound of breaking glasses included in the background of the overall din.

I looked at the officer and asked "aren't you going to put a stop to this?" He turned to me and in a very drol voice said "I will, when we get a little more group participation".

I'd have these fellows in between me and the bad guys anyday.
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
From a SEAL friend in the Nav.


Subject: Video...


This is an unbelievable story. The video is incredible.

This story is about PVT Channing Moss, who was impaled by a live RPG during a Taliban ambush while on patrol. Army protocol says that medevac choppers are never to carry anyone with a live round in him. Even though they feared it could explode, the flight crew said damn the protocol and flew him to the nearest aid station.

Again, protocol said that in such a case the patient is to be put in sandbagged area away from the surgical unit, given a shot of morphine and left to wait (and die) until others are treated. Again, the medical team ignored the protocol. Here's a seven-minute video put together by the Military Times, which includes actual footage of the surgery where Dr. John Oh, a Korean immigrant who became a naturalized citizen and went to West Point, removed the live round with the help of volunteers and a member of the EOD (explosive ordinance disposal) team.

Click link: http://www.militarytimes.com/multimedia/video/rpg_surgery/
midarockjock

climber
USA
Dec 14, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
I hope you enjoyed your time with your brother also away from seriousness.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
I've seen that video before. Absolutely amazing.

The chopper pilots, the doc, and the team that saved him went literally beyond their duties and protocols to save 1 man. That's what makes our armed forces so f*#king awesome!!!

It's a touching video too as I recall. Thanks for posting it.

We did the same thing not so long ago to extract 1 Brit soldier from Helmand Province who had critical injuries. He's alive and well thanks to numerous C-130 crews and logistics crews that organized his extraction to Germany and eventually home to England.

Michael Yon wrote about it. I think it's on the Meanwhile In Afghanistan thread.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
Here's the story of the Brit's extraction...

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/do-americans-care-about-british-soldiers.htm
Jason Torlano

Social climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 07:01pm PT
A rant but not far off the mark

>Subject: FW: check this out



about the SEAL trial.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqKWxBTB_4
midarockjock

climber
USA
Dec 15, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
We have been allies now for quite awhile.

Punching in face?
It's ok to kill and it's not ok to kill. It's ok to use force
and not ok to use force. Too many details lacking from
that video to judge.

I'm going back to civil court shortly with Taliban Towing
along with The Union Of The CA. City Socialist Republic.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2009 - 08:39am PT
From a retired Navy SEAL...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34844
TopNob

climber
Dec 16, 2009 - 09:10am PT
"My big Bro.
UDT-BUDs Class 98 (Circa 1978)
SEAL Team Six - Plank Owner.
20 Years service."

The single most impressive accomplishmnet I've ever read about on this website. Been lurking forever, never had anything to say until now, signed up for an acoount to do so. Tell your Big Bro "Thank you!" Not many Team Six plank owners walking the earth.
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